Catholicism and Islam?

[fpt]

What are the philosophical incompatibilities, the theological incompatibilities and the social incompatibilities between catholicism and Islam?

As catholic or only as human being, how do you define Islam? How do you feel with this doxa and these practices?

 

[sedonaman]

What are the philosophical incompatibilities, the theological incompatibilities and the social incompatibilities between catholicism and Islam?

As catholic or only as human being, how do you define Islam? How do you feel with this doxa and these practices?

Islam denies the Trinity and the crucifixion. Can’t get much more of a basic difference than that.

 

[Fone_Bone_2001]

My list isn’t necessarily exhaustive.

What are the philosophical incompatibilities?

Islamic fatalism, for sure.

the theological incompatibilities?

Their denial of these truths of our faith:

• The Trinity
• The Incarnation
• The Divinity of Jesus (this is sort of included in the above two, though)
• The Crucifixion of Jesus (they deny that he was crucified and died at all)

Some moral problems:

• Acceptance of polygamy
• And there may be some other moral incompatibilities… but I’m not sure enough to describe them accurately

and the social incompatibilities between catholicism and Islam?

It depends on where you live, I think. For moderate-minded American Muslims, I don’t think there are any social incompatibilities (unless a Muslim man enters more than one marriage, which most western Muslims don’t do, anyway).

If you live in countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia, or Pakistan, however… then there are lots. Women get no respect in those countries, nor do the Islamic authorities of such places have any regard for freedom of religion in any way.

As catholic or only as human being, how do you define Islam?

My opinion is that Islam is what you get when you take Abrahamic monotheism and rip from it all mystery and nuance: thus you preserve a generally accurate philosophical notion of God, and generally clear-sighted human ethics, but the link between them - between God and man - is gone. They have no Incarnation, thus no God-Man (our Lord Jesus Christ), and thus no redemption.

It’s a religion that has many good things and many bad things to it, but it is not salvific. I’m not saying I know that no Muslim is in heaven - that would be arrogant and presumptuous of me - but if any is, it’s not Islam that saved them.

I think this is a fair assessment.

 

[meltzerboy]

What are the philosophical incompatibilities, the theological incompatibilities and the social incompatibilities between catholicism and Islam?

As catholic or only as human being, how do you define Islam? How do you feel with this doxa and these practices?

Although both Catholicism and Islam are Abrahamic monotheistic faiths (as is Judaism), there are obviously several theological differences regarding the two religions’ most basic dogma and doctrines, including the very nature of G-d. In certain ways, Islam is closer to Judaism than it is to Catholicism or Christianity in general. In particular, neither Islam nor Judaism believes in a Trinitarian G-d or that Jesus is the begotten Son of G-d. Once upon a time, Orthodox Jews were not permitted to enter a Catholic Church, while it was permitted for Jews to enter a mosque, because it was believed by some Jews that Catholics are idolaters. Thankfully, this ignorant prohibition has been lifted. In other ways, however, Islam shares more, theologically, with Catholicism than it does with Judaism: its veneration of the Virgin Mary, its belief that Jesus was a great prophet though secondary to Muhammad, etc. Islam’s concept of Jesus as the Messiah does not match the Catholic (or Christian) concept of the Messiah. On this issue, Catholicism is closer to Judaism, although Judaism does not believe Jesus fulfilled the requirements of the Messiah based on prophecy.

Contrary to some other members of this Forum, I do not believe Islam is a false religion, at least not in its most essential moral teachings. At the same time, however, I do not accept Muhammad as a prophet, let alone the greatest prophet; but neither do I accept Jesus as a prophet. Of course, there are Muslim extremists, as there have been in every religion. Still, I am not given to Islam-bashing or bashing any religion, and, from what I understand, neither is the Catholic Church, the Pope, or the Catechism.

 

[meltzerboy]

My list isn’t necessarily exhaustive.

Islamic fatalism, for sure.

Their denial of these truths of our faith:

• The Trinity
• The Incarnation
• The Divinity of Jesus (this is sort of included in the above two, though)
• The Crucifixion of Jesus (they deny that he was crucified and died at all)

Some moral problems:

• Acceptance of polygamy
• And there may be some other moral incompatibilities… but I’m not sure enough to describe them accurately

It depends on where you live, I think. For moderate-minded American Muslims, I don’t think there are any social incompatibilities (unless a Muslim man enters more than one marriage, which most western Muslims don’t do, anyway).

If you live in countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia, or Pakistan, however… then there are lots. Women get no respect in those countries, nor do the Islamic authorities of such places have any regard for freedom of religion in any way.

My opinion is that Islam is what you get when you take Abrahamic monotheism and rip from it all mystery and nuance: thus you preserve a generally accurate philosophical notion of God, and generally clear-sighted human ethics, but the link between them - between God and man - is gone. They have no Incarnation, thus no God-Man (our Lord Jesus Christ), and thus no redemption.

It’s a religion that has many good things and many bad things to it, but it is not salvific. I’m not saying I know that no Muslim is in heaven - that would be arrogant and presumptuous of me - but if any is, it’s not Islam that saved them.

I think this is a fair assessment.

Both Islam and Judaism believe in redemption for sins through individual atonement, including prayer to G-d and charitable acts toward others. I’m not sure whether Islam also holds, as does Judaism, that one must make amends directly to those whom one has wronged. Neither religion believes in original sin or the need for a Savior.

 

[Curious_Seed]

Both Islam and Judaism believe in redemption for sins through individual atonement, including prayer to G-d and charitable acts toward others. I’m not sure whether Islam also holds, as does Judaism, that one must make amends directly to those whom one has wronged. Neither religion believes in original sin or the need for a Savior.

No Muslim needs G-d as savior?

No Jew needs G-d as savior?

All three religions, Christianity, Islam, and Judaism, hold that amendment to the one wronged is appropriate.

All three same religions believe each one of us has sinned and each one of us needs redemption.

 

[Fone_Bone_2001]

Both Islam and Judaism believe in redemption for sins through individual atonement, including prayer to G-d and charitable acts toward others. I’m not sure whether Islam also holds, as does Judaism, that one must make amends directly to those whom one has wronged. Neither religion believes in original sin or the need for a Savior.

Of course, thanks for the clarification and insight from a Jewish perspective.

Obviously from a Christian perspective, the lack of our Savior is problematic.

 

[thistle]

What are the philosophical incompatibilities, the theological incompatibilities and the social incompatibilities between catholicism and Islam?

As catholic or only as human being, how do you define Islam? How do you feel with this doxa and these practices?

There is no compatibility between Catholicism in particular or Christianity in general and Islam. The Muslims call all non-Muslims infidels and unbelievers and this is what Islam teaches about that:

Sura 5:51: “O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: they are but friends and protectors to each other. And he among you that turns to them for friendship is of them.”

Sura72:15 “The disbelievers are the firewood of hell.”

Sura 4:89 “seize them and slay them wherever you find them: and in any case take no friends or helpers from their ranks.”

Sura 9.123 “O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you”

Sura 2:187-189 “And kill them wherever ye shall find them, and eject them from whatever place they have ejected you; for civil discord is worse than carnage: yet attack them not at the sacred Mosque, unless they attack you therein; but if they attack you, slay them. Such the reward of the infidels…Fight therefore against them until there be no more civil discord, and the only worship be that of God: but if they desist, then let there be no hostility, save against the wicked.”

 

[fpt]

For catholicism, there are 4 very important elements:

The Ancient testament:
The New Testamenl:
The Holy Tradition:
The Pontifical infallibility:

Thus, by definition, the muslim book from islam called Coran cannot be seen as an holy book by catholic lay persons or by the catholic theology. Otherwise, the revelation made by Jesus was not total and full, Jesus’s revelation would be thus incomplete. This situation is impossible for all catholics.

Islam adores a god (one god), also that is a monotheistic religion. For muslim persons, christians and catholics are polytheist because One God in Three persons, it is not possible.

Their religion is a melting pot with jewish traditions and christian traditions and local cultures, the Coran — the Third revelation — only wanted by God, He is complete and so Holy.

As catholic, I can not believe that there is a supranatural link between, Old Testament, New Testament and the Coran.

Human link with the human will, only okay.

This religion is not the only one Religion wanted by God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit). One creator in Three persons is the only truth via the Catholic Church Wanted by Jesus. That is not negotiable.

Muslims are human beings, but not adoptive sons or not adoptive daughters of God, because no baptism, and in addition not the Chosen People like in the Old Covenant.