Catholicism and Islam

[kjsings]

I am creating this new thread in response to the thread on St Paul and Islam.

I seek peaceful dialog between Muslims and Christians. And, encourage fruitful dialog in this regard. I am troubled by those who take either Catholic or Muslim peaceful overtures at face value. But, I am more troubled by the volatile interactions that often occur between peoples who claim inheritance of the same God.

In the dialog on Paul and Islam, there are many good - attempting to heal; many that seek to define bridges between Islam and Christianity. There are also many that seem to want to attack Muslim beliefs. They may have validity, I do not know. While I have read much on the religion of Islam, I am certainly not a scholar of Islam.

We need to pray that our Holy Father, Pope Benedict, and the leaders of the Catholic Church are blessed with wisdom and keen insight as they try to progress the dialog with the leaders of the Islamic community.

There are many good and true things in Islamic writings and history, and many painful ones, just as there in the Catholic church.

I ask that you consider of the teachings of Islam and Catholicism, which do we have in common? We believe in a mono-theistic God, rooted to the time of Abraham. But, Muslims deny the divinity of Christ and categorize Catholics as polytheists as a result. Muslims recognize a unique and blessed role of Mary, but, by denying Christ’s divinity, they deny her status as Queen mother of the Christ.

If we look for differences, we will continue to find many. Placing our Catholic Creed in front of a Muslim and asking them to check off the items they agree with would be very problematic.

When we look at the areas of theological similarity, we can also immediately note differences. Catholics believe in a loving God, a Creator, Rule Giver, Father, a Spirit Wind, a Savior, and a bridegroom for the church. His way is narrow, his path is clear. Our responses are human and vary greatly, often based on our personal understanding of scripture, teaching, and tradition.

Muslims have a much more singular persona for Allah, and are troubled by the facets we ascribe to God. Allah’s path is also narrow, and Muslims seem to do a much better job of staying to the narrow path.

Christians by the definition of their faith, seek peaceful means to achieving God’s will. Those who do not, are definitively not following Christ’s will. They are denied and chastened by Christians for their un-Christ-like actions.

While many Muslims are on a productive, positive path related to the world, there are many, many who practice destructive methods to achieve goals claimed in the name of Islam.

What is true and in common between Catholicism and Islam:

We were all created and will be judged by the same God. We hold many subordinate beliefs in common.

When we assess our beliefs and practices in parallel, we will continue to see differences.

We need to identify the beliefs and practices that are at least congruent, and cooperate on those.

Where we disagree, we must have a dialog of mutual respect, or, there will be no civility between us.

So, this requires that many questions be answered. The first I would offer:

Can Christians live and openly practice their faith in an Islamic country where sharia is the rule of the land?

Can Muslims live in a Christian country and not try to get that country to conform to their beliefs at the cost of the practice of the beliefs of others?

God bless us all.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Can Christians live and openly practice their faith in an Islamic country where sharia is the rule of the land?

Can Muslims live in a Christian country and not try to get that country to conform to their beliefs at the cost of the practice of the beliefs of others?

I’d say probably no and yes.

 

[ralphinal]

I’d say probably no and yes.

I think I agree. Non-Muslims have major problems when trying to live under Sharia laws. Somehow, the Koran says there should be no compulsion of Religion, and yet the laws from the Koran disagree. Morally, no we could easily live under the laws, until we were not allowed freedom of religion.

Muslims can live in western countries ans practice freely. It seems like some of them have issues with living and leting live, so to speak. It seems to be more tied to education and social status, though. The more educated a Muslim is, the less likely they are to try to “force” their practices on others. Now, there are those within the Muslim community that say that their faith REQUIRES them to force any governement to follow Sharia law. They, too, would have a problem.

 

[Booklover]

Can Christians live and openly practice their faith in an Islamic country where sharia is the rule of the land?

No, Christians would be considered 2nd class citizens and have limited access to practice of their faith.

Can Muslims live in a Christian country and not try to get that country to conform to their beliefs at the cost of the practice of the beliefs of others?

God bless us all.

From what I’ve read, Islam does not assimilate, it dominates. There is never any “getting along” with Islam. Its demands never cease and the demands must be met on Islam’s terms: submission.

Vickie

 

[FaithofAbraham]

I think I agree. Non-Muslims have major problems when trying to live under Sharia laws. Somehow, the Koran says there should be no compulsion of Religion, and yet the laws from the Koran disagree. Morally, no we could easily live under the laws, until we were not allowed freedom of religion.

Muslims can live in western countries ans practice freely. It seems like some of them have issues with living and leting live, so to speak. It seems to be more tied to education and social status, though. The more educated a Muslim is, the less likely they are to try to “force” their practices on others. Now, there are those within the Muslim community that say that their faith REQUIRES them to force any governement to follow Sharia law. They, too, would have a problem.

You couldn’t go spread the Gospel as Jesus commanded, for sure. You have to mostly hide your worship, pretty much.

 

[ralphinal]

You couldn’t go spread the Gospel as Jesus commanded, for sure. You have to mostly hide your worship, pretty much.

I know. I am still trying to get a straight answer as to why from someone over there. I know that you, Muslim as you are, are not from that background at all.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

I know. I am still trying to get a straight answer as to why from someone over there. I know that you, Muslim as you are, are not from that background at all.

I believe in free speech as long as it is not really bashing God or the prophets. Then I still don’t believe in trying to stop that ourselves, Jesus can take care of that when he returns. We’re just supposed to walk away, shake dust from our feet like Jesus said.

 

[ralphinal]

I believe in free speech as long as it is not really bashing God or the prophets. Then I still don’t believe in trying to stop that ourselves, Jesus can take care of that when he returns. We’re just supposed to walk away, shake dust from our feet like Jesus said.

I agree.

This is going to sound anti-Islam, but I do not mean it to. The fact that these people will not allow other religions to be taught or even practiced to me is a sign of fear. It seems like they are afraid that people will convert. Now, that fear may be political, as it seems like Muslims are easier to control with corrupt governements. Or, it may be fear that Islam is really wrong and many might leave it if they had a chance. It ties in with why all forms of Sharai law call for the execution of anyone who leaves the faith. Is the faith so bad that fear of death is important to keep people in?

I am not sure that I have ever told you this, FoA, but I do pray for you. Not for your conversion, and not that you be less of an idiot, but that you, and other Muslims who are not “mainstream” be peacefully accepted by your brethren. To me, it is a disgrace that some would say that you should be killed for your faith.

 

[birdsong]

**There are many good and true things in Islamic writings and history, and many painful ones, just as there in the Catholic church. **

Am I the only one who is sick and tired of relativist nonsense such as the words quoted above?

Get your facts straight before you embarrass yourself in a public forum buddy.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

I agree.

This is going to sound anti-Islam, but I do not mean it to. The fact that these people will not allow other religions to be taught or even practiced to me is a sign of fear. It seems like they are afraid that people will convert. Now, that fear may be political, as it seems like Muslims are easier to control with corrupt governements. Or, it may be fear that Islam is really wrong and many might leave it if they had a chance. It ties in with why all forms of Sharai law call for the execution of anyone who leaves the faith. Is the faith so bad that fear of death is important to keep people in?

I am not sure that I have ever told you this, FoA, but I do pray for you. Not for your conversion, and not that you be less of an idiot, but that you, and other Muslims who are not “mainstream” be peacefully accepted by your brethren. To me, it is a disgrace that some would say that you should be killed for your faith.

Thanks.

 

[swariffin]

I think I agree. Non-Muslims have major problems when trying to live under Sharia laws. Somehow, the Koran says there should be no compulsion of Religion, and yet the laws from the Koran disagree. Morally, no we could easily live under the laws, until we were not allowed freedom of religion.

Muslims can live in western countries ans practice freely. It seems like some of them have issues with living and leting live, so to speak. It seems to be more tied to education and social status, though. The more educated a Muslim is, the less likely they are to try to “force” their practices on others. Now, there are those within the Muslim community that say that their faith REQUIRES them to force any governement to follow Sharia law. They, too, would have a problem.

I agree, theoratically. In writing, the Quran and the Sharia may say that Islamic belief will not be enforced. But in real practice, it is much different. You are also correct by saying that the more educated a muslim is, the less likely they enforce the belief to others. But, it works if there is no hidden agenda. Like in Indonesia, building a church in a moslem dominated region is not that easy. Even when the government officers say OK, the people will storm the area, and do everything to halt the construction.

As I do sincerely believe that there has to be something good in Islam, the main problem is exist. There is no central power who can say what interpretation of the Quran is correct, and
what is not. The result is, Quran can easily be abused by irrresponsible muslims (who usually be educated) to justify many hidden agendas. Further problem is, such hidden agendas are not necessarily for the sake of God. Typically the hidden agenda are for political and/or economic power.

I do feel very sorry for the uneducated muslims. Usually they suffer the most, endure the most, but gain the least or even nothing. The worst part of it, the uneducated muslims don’t even realize that they are being used.

 

[dolphinlove]

If, what i heard is correct, i believe people from said islamic countries would not be able to see this webpage. I think their governments block a LOT of web access for people in those countries.

 

[Reuben_J]

If, what i heard is correct, i believe people from said islamic countries would not be able to see this webpage. I think their governments block a LOT of web access for people in those countries.

There are islamic countries who confiscate your Bibles and Christian reading materials. They are so afraid that Muslims will believe in them and apostate.

One may wonder what kind of God’s religion is that they can never be very sure of its own strength and intergrity.

I hope this is not offensive but I’m merely stating the truth that happens in those countries.

 

[ralphinal]

There are islamic countries who confiscate your Bibles and Christian reading materials. They are so afraid that Muslims will believe in them and apostate.

One may wonder what kind of God’s religion is that they can never be very sure of its own strength and intergrity.

I hope this is not offensive but I’m merely stating the truth that happens in those countries.

I’ve said the whole time that until Islam allows Christians to teach and practice their faith, they show fear. They may be afraid of the truth. They may be afraid that the people will question the government more. They may be afraid of women drivers (wait, that it me )

I wish they would let secular scholars into Mecca to date everything. How would it shake the faith if it is shown that the place is only 2000 years old?

 

[2ndGen]

Spain has shown to be the epitome of an idealic Muslim Society where the 3 Great Religions (Catholicism, Islam and Judaism) co-existed peacefully and flourished.