Catholicism and many road to the top of the mountain?

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True, however there weren’t just scripture quotes. There were quotes by saints that were very clear.

olrl.org/snt_docs/fewness.shtml

This a sermon given by a saint that talks about the few that are saved. The numbers are very scary.
What is the use of knowing whether few or many are saved? Saint Peter says to us, “Strive by good works to make your election sure.” When Saint Thomas Aquinas’s sister asked him what she must do to go to heaven, he said, “You will be saved if you want to be.” I say the same thing to you, and here is proof of my declaration. No one is damned unless he commits mortal sin: that is of faith. And no one commits mortal sin unless he wants to: that is an undeniable theological proposition. Therefore, no one goes to hell unless he wants to; the consequence is obvious.
 
What is the use of knowing whether few or many are saved? Saint Peter says to us, “Strive by good works to make your election sure.” When Saint Thomas Aquinas’s sister asked him what she must do to go to heaven, he said, “You will be saved if you want to be.” I say the same thing to you, and here is proof of my declaration. No one is damned unless he commits mortal sin: that is of faith. And no one commits mortal sin unless he wants to: that is an undeniable theological proposition. Therefore, no one goes to hell unless he wants to; the consequence is obvious.
To convert sinners. If a sinner realizes that there is a very small amount of people that are saved, he might be inspired to stop his sinful ways.

It is also in the Bible, so it is obviously beneficial to know.
 
To convert sinners. If a sinner realizes that there is a very small amount of people that are saved, he might be inspired to stop his sinful ways.

It is also in the Bible, so it is obviously beneficial to know.
I was just quoting the sermon you provided.
 
=Xpiatio;12523552]A question came up during RCIA class: If the only way to the Father is through Jesus. And knowing that the Church does not explicitly condemn any one to hell. How does the church view pagans, wiccans, new age religions.
The deacon proceeds to explain that we trust in the mercy of God. For all we know, Hitler may be in heaven. We don’t know.
My concern comes from a slippery slope. Wouldn’t it be possible for a person attending the RCIA classes think that one doesn’t have to believe in Jesus for salvation? That there are many roads to the top of the mountain?
GREAT Q!

Simply because the Church DOES not condem does NOT mean that Christ does not:o

There is only One PORTAL to heaven and it has to be through the ONLY Faith and Church that are Christ approved.

Mt. 10:1-8
Mt. 16:15-19
John 17:11-23-26 and note especiually John 17:18 and 20:21
Mt. 28:6-20

Take careful note of the FACT that Christ uses singular tense in these teachings.👍

God Bless you,

Patrick
 
True, however there weren’t just scripture quotes. There were quotes by saints that were very clear.

olrl.org/snt_docs/fewness.shtml

This a sermon given by a saint that talks about the few that are saved. The numbers are very scary.
The Gospel of Luke as follows:

39 One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!”
40 But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? 41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”
42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.[c]”
43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

I guess Jesus let him slip in as one of the few to be saved. Hope you and I slip in with the thief on the cross also many others.

God Bless and Peace to all.
 
My personal take on Jesus is the Gate, and the Way and the Truth, and the Life, is that if a person reaches the Pearly Gates without knowing Christ, he will meet Him before he enters.
 
My personal take on Jesus is the Gate, and the Way and the Truth, and the Life, is that if a person reaches the Pearly Gates without knowing Christ, he will meet Him before he enters.
At the moment of death your fate is sealed, if it weren’t it would be awfully convenient to live your life here in a worldly manner and then if it’s all true after death repent then…it doesn’t work that way.

"**It is necessary to explain that the state of purification is not a prolungation of the earthly condition, almost as if after death one were given another possibility to change one’s destiny. The Church’s teaching in this regard is unequivocal **and was reaffirmed by the Second Vatican Council which teaches: “Since we know neither the day nor the hour, we should follow the advice of the Lord and watch constantly so that, when the single course of our earthly life is completed (cf. Heb 9: 27), we may merit to enter with him into the marriage feast and be numbered among the blessed, and not, like the wicked and slothful servants, be ordered to depart into the eternal fire, into the outer darkness where “men will weep and gnash their teeth’ (Mt 22: 13 and 25: 30)” (Lumen gentium, n. 48).”

-St Pope John Paul II. “Heaven hell and purgatory”

CCC 1022 Each man receives his eternal retribution in his immortal soul at the very moment of his death, in a particular judgment that refers his life to Christ: either entrance into the blessedness of heaven-through a purification594 or immediately,595 – or immediate and everlasting damnation.596
 
Then how can you justify if a person does the best he can living by his conscience to do right and is faithful to what he believe is right and never meets Christ on earth, is he condemned? And who is to say that God lives by our rules, but I am still convinced if he reaches the Pearly Gates, He will meet Christ, for all salvation comes from Jesus There is culpable ignorance, ignorance that is not culpable. There is Baptism of Desire, Water and Blood, who is to say that the person dosen’t have one of these conditions? Who knows the mind of the Lord, I think we must reserve judgement. I see no conflict with Church teaching.
 
Then how can you justify if a person does the best he can living by his conscience to do right and is faithful to what he believe is right and never meets Christ on earth, is he condemned? And who is to say that God lives by our rules, but I am still convinced if he reaches the Pearly Gates, He will meet Christ, for all salvation comes from Jesus There is culpable ignorance, ignorance that is not culpable. There is Baptism of Desire, Water and Blood, who is to say that the person dosen’t have one of these conditions? Who knows the mind of the Lord, I think we must reserve judgement. I see no conflict with Church teaching.
Everything you describe reflect choices made toward God in this life based on the persons knowledge.

The man in the Amazon jungle who chooses love and kindness and seeks after God as best as he can understand could be saved.

What cannot happen, is we live our lives rejecting God and then after we die and we see the flames of hell and the love of heaven, say “I was wrong, let me in”.

This is demonstrated by Jesus in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. The rich man was in torment and desired his family to not end up like him. If he had the ability to change after death he would not have been in torment, nor concerned for his family.
 
A question came up during RCIA class: If the only way to the Father is through Jesus. And knowing that the Church does not explicitly condemn any one to hell. How does the church view pagans, wiccans, new age religions.

The deacon proceeds to explain that we trust in the mercy of God. For all we know, Hitler may be in heaven. We don’t know.

My concern comes from a slippery slope. Wouldn’t it be possible for a person attending the RCIA classes think that one doesn’t have to believe in Jesus for salvation? That there are many roads to the top of the mountain?
I was under the impression that the Catholic Church only taught exceptions for invincible ignorance. Which I believe is possibly based on Romans 2:14-15.

So there is technically only one path to the top of the mountain, just some have been able to traverse it without a knowledge of the Catholic Faith.
 
The Catholic Church does not make explicit condemnations per the words of Jesus, that you do not judge a soul. That is our Creator’s place alone that is reserved for nobody else: not our Queen, our angels, our Pope, our bishops, our priests, our religious, or any laity. We are only commanded to judge behavior and ideologies, per the words of St Paul.

In large part, this is to avoid spiritual snobbery. If you pooled all the people that hang out on Catholic Answers, then the truth is, the vast majority are going to come from privileged backgrounds, perhaps financially, but far more than that, from a privileged background in the sense of having a firm rooting in the truths of the Gospel. For many people, their spiritual background is a complete trainwreck, and we have absolutely no authority to say in what condition their soul may or may not be in. Many people - including Jesus’ own disciples - frowned on the bold non-Jewish Samaritan woman that approached Jesus, and yet by her persistence, Jesus granted her the miracle that she sought. Jesus is so grave about our judgments that he says by judging others, we forfeit our own salvation. It is a mortal sin.

On the other hand, you have the danger of libertine theology that takes this idea and drives it off a cliff, where they barely even care about the mission of evangelization since everybody is supposedly saved anyway.

Just live in a manner as if everybody was in danger of hell, and hope in a manner as if everybody was going to Heaven, and pray in the manner that God will provide for you everything you need to live a holy life.
 
The Catholic Church does not make explicit condemnations per the words of Jesus, that you do not judge a soul. That is our Creator’s place alone that is reserved for nobody else: not our Queen, our angels, our Pope, our bishops, our priests, our religious, or any laity. We are only commanded to judge behavior and ideologies, per the words of St Paul.

In large part, this is to avoid spiritual snobbery. If you pooled all the people that hang out on Catholic Answers, then the truth is, the vast majority are going to come from privileged backgrounds, perhaps financially, but far more than that, from a privileged background in the sense of having a firm rooting in the truths of the Gospel. For many people, their spiritual background is a complete trainwreck, and we have absolutely no authority to say in what condition their soul may or may not be in. Many people - including Jesus’ own disciples - frowned on the bold non-Jewish Samaritan woman that approached Jesus, and yet by her persistence, Jesus granted her the miracle that she sought. Jesus is so grave about our judgments that he says by judging others, we forfeit our own salvation. It is a mortal sin.

On the other hand, you have the danger of libertine theology that takes this idea and drives it off a cliff, where they barely even care about the mission of evangelization since everybody is supposedly saved anyway.

Just live in a manner as if everybody was in danger of hell, and hope in a manner as if everybody was going to Heaven, and pray in the manner that God will provide for you everything you need to live a holy life.
Perhaps the best post of the year. Well said!!
 
Jesus is God. The only way to Heaven is thru God. Catholicism has the most secure road (no gates of hell holding out against it), but that does not mean a person who earnestly believes in & prays to. God cannot get to Heaven. There is only one God. What did Jesus say to that Pharisee? : ‘you are not far from the Kingdom of God’.
 
Just live in a manner as if everybody was in danger of hell, and hope in a manner as if everybody was going to Heaven, and pray in the manner that God will provide for you everything you need to live a holy life.
Love this. Agree.
 
Just live in a manner as if everybody was in danger of hell, and hope in a manner as if everybody was going to Heaven, and pray in the manner that God will provide for you everything you need to live a holy life.
+1
 
=ynotzap;12579130]My personal take on Jesus is the Gate, and the Way and the Truth, and the Life, is that if a person reaches the Pearly Gates without knowing Christ, he will meet Him before he enters.
Wow! My friend,

Where does OUR Catholic Church teach this?

And HOW does one reach “the pearly gates” without knowing Christ:shrug:

Yes it is possible; but HOW?

God Bless you,

Patrick
 
It’s just and expression, although it has truth within it. It is based on our lack of exact and complete knowledge of each person’s state of soul when he dies. If he is destined to go to Heaven even if he didn’t know Jesus here on earth, he will meet Him inevitably, Jesus is the Gate, not hindered by time,or death. He can do anything and no one can go to the Father except through Jesus. This is found in Holy Scripture, and St. Paul states that Christ is pre-eminent in all things, first in all things.
 
=Joy2day;12607231]Jesus is God. The only way to Heaven is thru God. Catholicism has the most secure road (no gates of hell holding out against it), but that does not mean a person who earnestly believes in & prays to. God cannot get to Heaven. There is only one God. What did Jesus say to that Pharisee? : ‘you are not far from the Kingdom of God’.
Nicely said and done,

THANK YOU!

Patrick
 
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