Catholicism and (personal) ambition

[Lilsheep88]

When I think of being a follower of Christ, I automatically think “sell your belongings, drop everything you have, and follow me”, poverty, sacfriice everything, restrictions

But in this capitalist society… you have to be ambitious, competetive and we always have to “aim for the best” in our lives…

Knowing that it is easier for a camel to get to the kingdom of heaven than a rich man… Does the bible / Catholicism forbid being hardworking / ambitious so that you could have a comfortable life here on Earth? When I mean comfortable, I mean nice cars, money to send your kids to the best schools, property investments, things like that.

As for me… Ive always wanted to be a CEO of some multinational company…

Any thoughts? Can the two ever be reconciled?

 

[Lilsheep88]

Heres an example (in the context of entrepreneurship)… lets say you run a store and that if you wish to do well you have to be supercompetetive to the point that you “outdo” the other stores, you monopolize and you keep the market share to yourself because if you dont that store will. As a result you shut the other businesses down. In short, doing what you gotta do to survive in a hostile environment. So kind of like pulling the trigger first at somebody already pointing the gun at you… is this moral?

In my own personal case… I like to go hard (beastmode) in my school work, in the gym. and every aspect of my life and disregard the need to be nice and kind to people and to prove I am the best in everything I do… Why Do i have to consider your feelings if its all about competition anyway???

 

[Nelka]

I work to pay bills and the other necessities in life.

If I ran a company and earnt vast amounts of money it would corrupt me.

I would like a pay rise of course because three years without one and all bills and fuel going up so much means it is harder to live.

My ambition since childhood was to be a husband, a father and get to Heaven.

My work ambition is basically to get a better job, one where my work doesn’t take over my family life.

If you think you can run a company, earn lots of money and have much responsibility over many people’s working lives without it corrupting you and using your money for good instead of wasting it on flashy stuff then go for it.

You should make a decision depending on your personality.

 

[Julia_Mae]

But in this capitalist society… you have to be ambitious, competetive and we always have to “aim for the best” in our lives…

No, you don’t. “Aim for the best…” What’s that? Your life here is hardly an eyeblink compared to your eternity.

If everyone on earth died in the next ten minutes, I imagine there’d be quite a back-up in the line to the Heavenly Gates. Where do you think The Donald will be in the line? When Saint Peter picks up the file folder with his important accomplishments in it, do you think it will be thick or thin? Bigger than the contemplative nun’s or smaller? Bigger than the grocery clerk’s or smaller?

The least important thing about anyone is what they do for a living. The most important thing is how they do their living.

Taking aim is a good idea, though. It’s the targeting that’s tricky.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

When I think of being a follower of Christ, I automatically think “sell your belongings, drop everything you have, and follow me”, poverty, sacfriice everything, restrictions

But in this capitalist society… you have to be ambitious, competetive and we always have to “aim for the best” in our lives…

Knowing that it is easier for a camel to get to the kingdom of heaven than a rich man… Does the bible / Catholicism forbid being hardworking / ambitious so that you could have a comfortable life here on Earth? When I mean comfortable, I mean nice cars, money to send your kids to the best schools, property investments, things like that.

As for me… Ive always wanted to be a CEO of some multinational company…

Any thoughts? Can the two ever be reconciled?

No, I do not think so.
There is a theory in Wall Street that if you choose moral companies, you earn more money than with less moral companies. There are people vigilant over that and funds that deal with only those companies.
Remember St. Paul: deal with things of this world as if they were not yours. You are a guest in the Hotel-Earth. Behave like a guest not like the owner of the hotel. You will leave this Hotel someday.
There are people who are materially poor but are spiritually rich. They would not give a grain of rice to someone who was worse than them.
Viktor Frankl in the book that everybody should read: “in search of a meaning” says that the best of the Auschwitz prisoners did not survive. He saw people giving the last peace of bread to another.
But look at Bill Gates. I think it was the influence of Melinda, but I must admire the guy. We wants to build the best-in-the-world solidarity company. He runs it like a company, wishing that every cent be spent in the most formidanle way…
In short: enjoy money, earn money, but think that God is first and do not become attached to money for you must leave on day.
And as Israelis put it, the first commandment: “Look Israel, the Lorg God is the Only One, you will love with ALL your heart, ALL your soul, ALL your mind”

 

[JRKH]

When I think of being a follower of Christ, I automatically think “sell your belongings, drop everything you have, and follow me”, poverty, sacrifice everything, restrictions.

Yes - this is quite true, but there may be many ways to understand this in detail. You are currently looking at this in a very shallow and worldly way. Don’t feel bad that I say that - we all do this to some extent and especially early in our journey.
God DOES call us away from our belongings. He does so that our belongings do not own us. We are called to “Poverty” but that poverty is not a “monetary” poverty so much as it is a spiritual poverty - a humility and a thankfulness for what we have and a desire to use ourselves and our blessings to promote the Kingdom.
Right now you see this as “restrictive” but believe me, it is not. In fact, it is very liberating.

But in this capitalist society… you have to be ambitious, competitive and we always have to “aim for the best” in our lives…

Who says this other than those who ARE ambitious and competitive. There is nothing in Capitalism that requires that one be “ambitious” and “competitive”. In fact, this country was built by the millions of people who wanted nothing more than a fair wage and to live their lives in dignity and to raise their children to be good citizens.
The modern view of Capitalism is something of a perversion.
As to “Aim(ing) for the best in our lives”, this is absolutely true. We MUST aim to be the best…but the best what? The Best Christian, the Best child of God should be our answer for then we will have treasure in heaven. All else is but dust in the wind.

Knowing that it is easier for a camel to get to the kingdom of heaven than a rich man… Does the bible / Catholicism forbid being hardworking / ambitious so that you could have a comfortable life here on Earth? When I mean comfortable, I mean nice cars, money to send your kids to the best schools, property investments, things like that.

The Church does not forbid being hardworking or ambitious. In fact the Church promotes it. It is the goal and/or the method of that hard work and ambition that can be problematic.
If a person has a talent in business that person needs to use that talent to best advantage. That means to the best advantage of the Kingdom…Built upon Love. Read through Mt 25:31-46 to see how we will be judged.

As for me… Ive always wanted to be a CEO of some multinational company…

Any thoughts? Can the two ever be reconciled?

This desire can be the most wonderful thing on the planet - you could be the most ethical, moral, God fearing, company on the planet, providing more jobs, more dignity, to more people than any other company in the history of mankind and you could still be the most humble of people before God…
BUT
Jesus Admonition about the Camel and the eye of the needle speaks to the very great and grave danger in such a course. The lure of money and all the things that can be bought - the temptations to compromise principles for financial gain that the devil will put in your path - these and many more potential pitfalls await one with such ambition.

Seek first the Kingdom and all else will be added.

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

No, you don’t. “Aim for the best…” What’s that? Your life here is hardly an eyeblink compared to your eternity.

If everyone on earth died in the next ten minutes, I imagine there’d be quite a back-up in the line to the Heavenly Gates. Where do you think The Donald will be in the line? When Saint Peter picks up the file folder with his important accomplishments in it, do you think it will be thick or thin? Bigger than the contemplative nun’s or smaller? Bigger than the grocery clerk’s or smaller?

The least important thing about anyone is what they do for a living. The most important thing is how they do their living.

Taking aim is a good idea, though. It’s the targeting that’s tricky.

 

[puzzleannie]

In my own personal case… I like to go hard (beastmode) in my school work, in the gym. and every aspect of my life and disregard the need to be nice and kind to people and to prove I am the best in everything I do… Why Do i have to consider your feelings if its all about competition anyway???

please explain to me why doing your personal best in any endeavor requires being mean and inconsiderate of others? the concept is foreign to me and I come from one of the most competitive families on record. Who are also one of the kindest.

 

[JRKH]

The Holy Spirit works in wondrous ways…
Found this in my e-mail this morning…

Prayer of Gratitude

I asked God for strength that I might achieve.
I was made weak that I might learn humbly to obey.
I asked for health that I might do greater things.
I was given infirmity that I might do better things.
I asked for riches that I might be happy.
I was given poverty that I might be wise.
I asked for power that I might have the praise of men.
I was given weakness that I might feel the need of God.
I asked for all things that I might enjoy life.
I was given life that I might enjoy all things.
I got nothing that I asked for, but everything I hoped for.
Almost despite myself, my unspoken prayers were answered.
I am, among all men, most richly blessed.

May God answer all of our prayers so — and may we understand the Love in His answers.

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

Knowing that it is easier for a camel to get to the kingdom of heaven than a rich man… Does the bible / Catholicism forbid being hardworking / ambitious so that you could have a comfortable life here on Earth? When I mean comfortable, I mean nice cars, money to send your kids to the best schools, property investments, things like that.

As for me… Ive always wanted to be a CEO of some multinational company…

Any thoughts? Can the two ever be reconciled?

An additional thought or two…Perhaps it is best to reflect on what is “comfortable” what it means and what it entails.
Does comfort require a big house when a more modest one will do?
Does comfort require that your children go to the “best schools” (depending on how you define “best”…?
Does a “nice car” equal an “expensive car”?
Does “Property investments” mean maximizing profits for your “comfort” regardless of the effect on others?

These and many other considerations are very important in reconciling these things.
I suggest that you decide what is necessary for your “comfort” and then start scaling it back, carefully considering what is really needed and what is, in reality, just desire.
In this, spending time as a volunteer with the needy can be useful.

Note here that I am not making any judgement on you, your desires, your talents, or anything else - I am simply suggesting something to consider and pray about and a possible exercise to help sort the matter out.

Peace
James

 

[Lilsheep88]

Wow… Thank you guys. Alot of things made sense.

 

[JRKH]

Wow… Thank you guys. Alot of things made sense.

No problem - This topic comes up fairly regularly. I even started a thread on it myself awhile back…

Peace
James

 

[Lilsheep88]

So let me get this straight, its OK to be ambitious and competetive, but not be TOO greedy and love has to be the UNDERLYING factor of every action. LIve your life modestly and not in excess.

And in reference to the Knights of Columbus leader, its OK to be rich as long as you use the money responsibly and use it to the benefit of the kingdom of God, correct? So its like acknowledging that you need money to survive, but you dont have to worship it as God… I see now.

Also I am reflecting upon last 2 weeks mass about the parable of the talents, I just want to make sure I dont over do things XD.

Thanks.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Wow… Thank you guys. Alot of things made sense.

It also occurred to me you could want to be the CEO of UNICEF or Save the Children or some other multinational charity operation. I think there could be a national director of Catholic Charities.

I think you can just figure out how to use your natural gifts and all that energy and drive in a way that makes sense in terms of what’s really important.

And I’m sure you will.

 

[JRKH]

So let me get this straight, its OK to be ambitious and competetive, but not be TOO greedy and love has to be the UNDERLYING factor of every action. LIve your life modestly and not in excess.

And in reference to the Knights of Columbus leader, its OK to be rich as long as you use the money responsibly and use it to the benefit of the kingdom of God, correct? So its like acknowledging that you need money to survive, but you dont have to worship it as God… I see now.

Also I am reflecting upon last 2 weeks mass about the parable of the talents, I just want to make sure I dont over do things XD.

Thanks.

Yes - this is a much more healthy outlook. As you continue to reflect prayerfully on these things your understanding should increase.

A note on “competitive and ambitious” - These must be carefully watched. Ambition can often stems from pride, and competition is OK within the bounds of Christian Charity (Love). In other words it needs to be “friendly competition”.
In both of these areas, ambition and competition, it is often best to simply do the best job you car able to and trust the rest to God. He’ll put you where He needs you most.

Regarding money - Yes - it needs to be looked at simply as a tool to obtain certain ends. Either those ends give Glory to God, or they do not.

Peace
James

 

[fred_conty]

Personal ambition can refer to many things. To me it means to excell in any kind of undertaking.

But I noticed the posts before seem to be concentrating on work. And there does seem to be a fixation on work for financial reasons. And IMO this is where the scrutiny could start.

Work is not the “be” and “end” of all our lives. Which translates into MONEY or riches.
Our frame of mind is stuck on that idea. We are breathing in a society which dictates that
wealth is who you are and what makes you important. And the poor are of no account
and lazy(judgment), with no ambition. This is the personal ambition and philosophy of our
western world, work, work, work, to the chigrin of family, and our dear God.

What should our personal ambition really be directed at? What was St. Paul’s personal
ambition? What was Jesus’ personal ambition?

Maybe my personal ambition should become ambitionS in all areas of my life and give up
my own will or choices.

Just a thought.

 

[JRKH]

Personal ambition can refer to many things. To me it means to excell in any kind of undertaking.

But I noticed the posts before seem to be concentrating on work. And there does seem to be a fixation on work for financial reasons. And IMO this is where the scrutiny could start.

Work is not the “be” and “end” of all our lives. Which translates into MONEY or riches.
Our frame of mind is stuck on that idea. We are breathing in a society which dictates that
wealth is who you are and what makes you important. And the poor are of no account
and lazy(judgment), with no ambition. This is the personal ambition and philosophy of our
western world, work, work, work, to the chigrin of family, and our dear God.

What should our personal ambition really be directed at? What was St. Paul’s personal
ambition? What was Jesus’ personal ambition?

Maybe my personal ambition should become ambitionS in all areas of my life and give up
my own will or choices.

Just a thought.

Excellent thoughts Fred.

Peace
James

 

[jmjconder]

When I think of being a follower of Christ, I automatically think “sell your belongings, drop everything you have, and follow me”, poverty, sacfriice everything, restrictions

But in this capitalist society… you have to be ambitious, competetive and we always have to “aim for the best” in our lives…

Knowing that it is easier for a camel to get to the kingdom of heaven than a rich man… Does the bible / Catholicism forbid being hardworking / ambitious so that you could have a comfortable life here on Earth? When I mean comfortable, I mean nice cars, money to send your kids to the best schools, property investments, things like that.

As for me… Ive always wanted to be a CEO of some multinational company…

Any thoughts? Can the two ever be reconciled?

**Our “work” was brought into the world with original sin. Therefore I believe it is one way for us to find our way back to God.

So the main question needs to be - does your work bring you closer to - the God our Father, personally to Jesus and guided by the Spirit? If your work becomes a distraction for this eternal relationship…your personal ambition is ego centered and not God centered.**