Catholicism and Voodoo: How to Respond?

[WD615]

So, in college I’ve been taking a “Traditional Religions” course which basically looks at more primitive religions (shamanism, witchcraft, primitive paganism, etc.). We’ve spent a significant amount of time in that class over Vodoun, a.k.a. Voodoo.

My problem is that the professor (who was actually a former member of the Southern Baptist Convention Sunday School Board) keeps droning on and on about the similarities between Catholicism and Vodoun. Today we watched a documentary in class (we’ve already watched a couple) and yet again it harped on how Catholic saints are similar to Vodoun Loa, how prayers to the saints are similar to prayers to Loa, Catholic and Vodoun shrines are similar, rituals are similar, feast days, saints names, etc.

I think the filmmakers were trying to show Vodoun as “mainstream” by noting the similarities and I think my professor uses the “similarities” to demonstrate how Vodoun isn’t as weird or extreme as we first think. (He’s not the typical Baptist anyway) However, to a class full of Protestants it seems like it just makes Catholicism out to be a bunch of idolatry and witchcraft too.

Anyhow, my question is how should I respond to this? One girl next to me said to me how she thought Catholicism was just as “bad” as Vodoun (b/c Catholics “worship” Mary by praying to her, etc.). I tried to explain the reality to her. Of course, I don’t think she knows I’m Catholic since I’ve recently converted.

I’ve thought about the answers to such questions before, but what responses anybody else would give.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

So, in college I’ve been taking a “Traditional Religions” course which basically looks at more primitive religions (shamanism, witchcraft, primitive paganism, etc.). We’ve spent a significant amount of time in that class over Vodoun, a.k.a. Voodoo.

My problem is that the professor (who was actually a former member of the Southern Baptist Convention Sunday School Board) keeps droning on and on about the similarities between Catholicism and Vodoun. Today we watched a documentary in class (we’ve already watched a couple) and yet again it harped on how Catholic saints are similar to Vodoun Loa, how prayers to the saints are similar to prayers to Loa, Catholic and Vodoun shrines are similar, rituals are similar, feast days, saints names, etc.

I think the filmmakers were trying to show Vodoun as “mainstream” by noting the similarities and I think my professor uses the “similarities” to demonstrate how Vodoun isn’t as weird or extreme as we first think. (He’s not the typical Baptist anyway) However, to a class full of Protestants it seems like it just makes Catholicism out to be a bunch of idolatry and witchcraft too.

Anyhow, my question is how should I respond to this? One girl next to me said to me how she thought Catholicism was just as “bad” as Vodoun (b/c Catholics “worship” Mary by praying to her, etc.). I tried to explain the reality to her. Of course, I don’t think she knows I’m Catholic since I’ve recently converted.

I’ve thought about the answers to such questions before, but what responses anybody else would give.

First question, is it even worth responding to? Your professor obviously isn’t the type to listen to logic or reason, otherwise he wouldn’t be showing nonsense like that. Further, if you feel the class has had a heavily anti-Catholic bias, perhaps you could bring it up to the administration. A professor shouldn’t be espousing his personal philosophy on his students.

As to your question, you could kindly point out that correlation does not prove causation; nor does one false religion’s similarities to Catholicism disprove Catholicism; he’s performing several logical fallacies all at once… If it weren’t so depressing it’d be impressive. He won’t listen to you of course, but at least it’s out there. As to your fellow students, just kindly state that they should read the early church fathers, and when they’re done, assuming they are actually willing to listen to the people who actually developed Christianity, none of them would be protestant anymore.

None of them will read it of course, no one likes their beliefs to be challenged, especially in any substantial way they can’t ignore one they’ve heard it, but you’ll have done something to help spread the truth instead of your teacher’s bullhockey.

Also, to you, congrats on your conversion. It’s always nice to see people who are willing to actually seek the Truth ^^

 

[Iron_Donkey]

So, in college I’ve been taking a “Traditional Religions” course which basically looks at more primitive religions (shamanism, witchcraft, primitive paganism, etc.). We’ve spent a significant amount of time in that class over Vodoun, a.k.a. Voodoo.

My problem is that the professor (who was actually a former member of the Southern Baptist Convention Sunday School Board) keeps droning on and on about the similarities between Catholicism and Vodoun. Today we watched a documentary in class (we’ve already watched a couple) and yet again it harped on how Catholic saints are similar to Vodoun Loa, how prayers to the saints are similar to prayers to Loa, Catholic and Vodoun shrines are similar, rituals are similar, feast days, saints names, etc.

I think the filmmakers were trying to show Vodoun as “mainstream” by noting the similarities and I think my professor uses the “similarities” to demonstrate how Vodoun isn’t as weird or extreme as we first think. (He’s not the typical Baptist anyway) However, to a class full of Protestants it seems like it just makes Catholicism out to be a bunch of idolatry and witchcraft too.

Anyhow, my question is how should I respond to this? One girl next to me said to me how she thought Catholicism was just as “bad” as Vodoun (b/c Catholics “worship” Mary by praying to her, etc.). I tried to explain the reality to her. Of course, I don’t think she knows I’m Catholic since I’ve recently converted.

I’ve thought about the answers to such questions before, but what responses anybody else would give.

As I recall, Vodoo as it exists in Haiti looks much like Catholicism because practitioners brought from Africa disguised their worship of their Loas as veneration of saints to avoid persecution, etc. Thus there is visual outward similarity because visual outward aspects of Catholicism were twisted to cover people wishing to continue to practice voodoo. (Note: this was the fault of Catholics, primarily - though I am saying that the result is bad, I am not blaming the practitioners of voodoo for resisting coercion. That time period was pretty all around terrible in those respects.)

But of course, outward similarity doesn’t actually mean much by itself. I might shape my tofu (voodoo) to look like turkey (Catholicism), but that neither makes my tofu actually become turkey, nor does it make turkey inherently like tofu. Tofu turkeys are and only are horrible parodies of meat made out of… whatever tofu is made out of. The existence of horrible parodies does not, however devalue turkey.

And on that note, dinner time. And it certainly won’t involve tofu.

 

[JerryZ]

So, in college I’ve been taking a “Traditional Religions” course which basically looks at more primitive religions (shamanism, witchcraft, primitive paganism, etc.). We’ve spent a significant amount of time in that class over Vodoun, a.k.a. Voodoo.

My problem is that the professor (who was actually a former member of the Southern Baptist Convention Sunday School Board) keeps droning on and on about the similarities between Catholicism and Vodoun. Today we watched a documentary in class (we’ve already watched a couple) and yet again it harped on how Catholic saints are similar to Vodoun Loa, how prayers to the saints are similar to prayers to Loa, Catholic and Vodoun shrines are similar, rituals are similar, feast days, saints names, etc.

I think the filmmakers were trying to show Vodoun as “mainstream” by noting the similarities and I think my professor uses the “similarities” to demonstrate how Vodoun isn’t as weird or extreme as we first think. (He’s not the typical Baptist anyway) However, to a class full of Protestants it seems like it just makes Catholicism out to be a bunch of idolatry and witchcraft too.

Anyhow, my question is how should I respond to this? One girl next to me said to me how she thought Catholicism was just as “bad” as Vodoun (b/c Catholics “worship” Mary by praying to her, etc.). I tried to explain the reality to her. Of course, I don’t think she knows I’m Catholic since I’ve recently converted.

I’ve thought about the answers to such questions before, but what responses anybody else would give.

soo voodo did not assimilate some of the practices of catholicism?
Because from what I understand in Haiti the preponderance is Catholicism AND voodo.

When someone has an agenda it sooo easy to look for “facts” out of context that then somehow “fit” the hipotesis as long as you don’t look too closely at them.

geez where did I see this happen recently? I yeah the global warming fiasco

 

[WD615]

First question, is it even worth responding to? Your professor obviously isn’t the type to listen to logic or reason, otherwise he wouldn’t be showing nonsense like that. Further, if you feel the class has had a heavily anti-Catholic bias, perhaps you could bring it up to the administration. A professor shouldn’t be espousing his personal philosophy on his students.

Well, he’s not pushing his philosophy exactly. And if anything he’s sympathetic to Catholicism. He’s attended Catholic churches before and has even participated in a wedding mass (I’m not sure if he was supposed to or not)

Anyhow, I guess I was just wondering for when it comes up in conversations. Since a lot of people have the view that Catholicism is equivalent to witchcraft or some other type of superstition. Especially for conversations with people like that girl. The ones who think I’ve gone overboard into superstition.

 

[Marie5890]

Cant’ say I have studied in depth the similarities, if any,

So unless those who respond to you have actually done indepth research and studying of the topic, not sure how helpful it will be on an educational level.

Good Luck.

 

[R_C]

I read (and witnessed first person) the syncretism of afro-caribbean religions. It is ludicrous - especially for a college professor - to point out the “similarities” between Catholicism (2000 years strong) and a set of loosely based animistic religions that the term “voodoo” describes very poorly

 

[WD615]

And if I didn’t make it clear, I’m not planning to approach the professor. Yet, it is awkward when someone (students, family, peers whoever) equates Catholicism with superstition. It’s hard to overcome such an attitude

 

[ProdglArchitect]

And if I didn’t make it clear, I’m not planning to approach the professor. Yet, it is awkward when someone (students, family, peers whoever) equates Catholicism with superstition. It’s hard to overcome such an attitude

Unfortunately, you are right. it is very difficult to get people to move beyond their stereotypes. I am having that same problem with a friend right now. He has “memories” of his time at a Catholic school, and has intense prejudices against Christianity in general. He said what he thought, and when I confronted him with the Truth he didn’t react all that well >_>

All you can really do is continue to tell people the truth when you’re up to it. It can get tiring, but it is an activity well worth engaging in.

 

[yukonbrad]

Hmmmm First thing that comes to mind is that by “invalidating” Catholicism this professor is also invalidating his own Southern Baptist beliefs too. Like all Protestant churches they are inevitably just an offshoot of the Catholic church as it was the Catholic church that was first.

 

[WD615]

I read (and witnessed first person) the syncretism of afro-caribbean religions. It is ludicrous - especially for a college professor - to point out the “similarities” between Catholicism (2000 years strong) and a set of loosely based animistic religions that the term “voodoo” describes very poorly

Exactly what I was thinking. And with regards to what you and Iron Donkey said, the attempt has been made to judge Vodoun by its similarities to Catholicism. However, what oftens happens is Catholicism is judged by its “similarities” to Vodoun. As a syncretist attempt to legitimize an animistic religion could discredit a 2000 year old tradition that undeniably passed down the faith even to the Protestants.

They even made sure to splice in a video of a Catholic woman talking about how you need to pray to “St Expedite” to get things done real quick. And you pray to St Anthony for lost things, but make sure to give them a gift at their statue like a loaf of bread before and after you get your wish. Essentially trying to show prayer to saints as a “good luck charm” or semi-pagan idolatry.

Also, to you, congrats on your conversion. It’s always nice to see people who are willing to actually seek the Truth ^^

Thanks. I once viewed Catholicism as superstitious myself. I guess studying Church history was a cure for that.

 

[JonNC]

So, in college I’ve been taking a “Traditional Religions” course which basically looks at more primitive religions (shamanism, witchcraft, primitive paganism, etc.). We’ve spent a significant amount of time in that class over Vodoun, a.k.a. Voodoo.

My problem is that the professor (who was actually a former member of the Southern Baptist Convention Sunday School Board) keeps droning on and on about the similarities between Catholicism and Vodoun. Today we watched a documentary in class (we’ve already watched a couple) and yet again it harped on how Catholic saints are similar to Vodoun Loa, how prayers to the saints are similar to prayers to Loa, Catholic and Vodoun shrines are similar, rituals are similar, feast days, saints names, etc.

I think the filmmakers were trying to show Vodoun as “mainstream” by noting the similarities and I think my professor uses the “similarities” to demonstrate how Vodoun isn’t as weird or extreme as we first think. (He’s not the typical Baptist anyway) However, to a class full of Protestants it seems like it just makes Catholicism out to be a bunch of idolatry and witchcraft too.

Anyhow, my question is how should I respond to this? One girl next to me said to me how she thought Catholicism was just as “bad” as Vodoun (b/c Catholics “worship” Mary by praying to her, etc.). I tried to explain the reality to her. Of course, I don’t think she knows I’m Catholic since I’ve recently converted.

I’ve thought about the answers to such questions before, but what responses anybody else would give.

How about a handmade doll in his likeness, along with a long pin, sitting on your desk.

On second thought, you better not. :nope:

Seriously, its a ridiculous charge that deserves little comment. Are you willing to share the name of the college?

Jon

 

[WD615]

How about a handmade doll in his likeness, along with a long pin, sitting on your desk.

On second thought, you better not. :nope:

Seriously, its a ridiculous charge that deserves little comment. Are you willing to share the name of the college?

Jon

Suffice it to say it’s a small private college in Tennessee. The similarities are all superficial, or artificial if you wish, because these similarities were intentionally created to mask the African religion!

He didn’t say this, but I do bristle at the equivalency of Vodoun possession (and yes that is the true core of Vodoun not dolls or black magic) to the rites and liturgies and personal devotions of the Catholic Church!

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Thanks. I once viewed Catholicism as superstitious myself. I guess studying Church history was a cure for that.

Knowledge about the Church is the best antidote for anti-Catholicism there is ^^

 

[Iheartcoffee]

I ran into a similar situation in an anthropology class one time.I called her out on it and said these were prayers to Jesus, not magic. She and I debated back and forth for a minute. I think the fact that someone was willing to discredit what she said probably helped because it will plant a seed of doubt about her teachings.

Don’t be afraid to speak the truth, and remember at the end of the semester there are always anonymous instructor evaluations! Make sure to throw in something about the professor “being insensitive to cultural beliefs by promoting incorrect stereotypes” with her opinions during the class. Keywords like that stand out when the dean is reviewing them. Talk about it in the realm of “multiculturalism” and the college will be all over it.

 

[JonNC]

Suffice it to say it’s a small private college in Tennessee. The similarities are all superficial, or artificial if you wish, because these similarities were intentionally created to mask the African religion!

He didn’t say this, but I do bristle at the equivalency of Vodoun possession (and yes that is the true core of Vodoun not dolls or black magic) to the rites and liturgies and personal devotions of the Catholic Church!

I would bristle at it, also, particularly since we share a great majority of that liturgy and those rites.

And the doll thing was a joke.

Jon

 

[WD615]

I would bristle at it, also, particularly since we share a great majority of that liturgy and those rites.

And the doll thing was a joke.

Jon

Oh yeah. I figured so. I’m sure they’re aren’t too many LCMS Lutherans running around who are also Voodoo practictioners lol

 

[lynnvinc]

So, in college I’ve been taking a “Traditional Religions” course which basically looks at more primitive religions (shamanism, witchcraft, primitive paganism, etc.). We’ve spent a significant amount of time in that class over Vodoun, a.k.a. Voodoo.

My problem is that the professor (who was actually a former member of the Southern Baptist Convention Sunday School Board) keeps droning on and on about the similarities between Catholicism and Vodoun. Today we watched a documentary in class (we’ve already watched a couple) and yet again it harped on how Catholic saints are similar to Vodoun Loa, how prayers to the saints are similar to prayers to Loa, Catholic and Vodoun shrines are similar, rituals are similar, feast days, saints names, etc.

I think the filmmakers were trying to show Vodoun as “mainstream” by noting the similarities and I think my professor uses the “similarities” to demonstrate how Vodoun isn’t as weird or extreme as we first think. (He’s not the typical Baptist anyway) However, to a class full of Protestants it seems like it just makes Catholicism out to be a bunch of idolatry and witchcraft too.

Anyhow, my question is how should I respond to this? One girl next to me said to me how she thought Catholicism was just as “bad” as Vodoun (b/c Catholics “worship” Mary by praying to her, etc.). I tried to explain the reality to her. Of course, I don’t think she knows I’m Catholic since I’ve recently converted.

I’ve thought about the answers to such questions before, but what responses anybody else would give.

I’m also a convert.

The Church teaches that we pray thru the saints, thru Mary, to Jesus, to God, and not to any part of His creation. However, we are to be very thankful for creation (including our parents, the saints, etc).

Carmelites believe that prayers to (thru) St. Joseph are especially effective, bec the Bible tells when Jesus was lost and found in the Temple as a youth, he thereafter was obedient to his parents. And do you think our prayers thru Mary are wrongly directed and wasted? What son could deny a passed-on petition from such a good mother? Don’t we ask for help from our real mothers when they are alive, and why should we stop asking when they have gone to heaven, and have even better contact (we hope) with the Source of all?

The other point is that Protestants tend to think they are self-made people more than Catholics think (altho we also wrong slip into that thinking). A truly religious and Christian person will not only acknowledge and thank God for all He has done for us (EVERYTHING), but also acknowledge what our ancestors (our parents, grandparents, forbears, Adam, Eve, and the saints) and others (including our current friends, neighbors, and people around us) have done for us – where would we be without them and without food, water, air, etc to sustain us? We should be in a state of perpetual thankfulness, thankful at the least that our cups are half full rather than half empty (we might even find they are fuller than we think).

God did not leave us abandoned. He gave us creation for our material sustenance, the saints for our spiritual sustenance, and Himself as Jesus, because we finite material people long for God to be tangible so we can hug him and he can hug us, and we can bring Him into us in the Blessed Sacrament.

Protestants only turn to God and skip all these other gifts he has given us, so they can then put God on a shelf and claim pridefully they are self-made people, unlike the poor who are shiftless no-goods. When in reality ALL the good we are and all the good we have and all the good we do is pure gift and grace from God (thru his saints, our forbears, others around us, and His good creation), and we are compelled in realizing this to care and share thru the examples of God and his saints, and the good we see in others around us, in our forebears. And we should understand that the poor are poor due to our negligence, bec the poor have also been given to us that we might share in God’s love and joy of His great giving.

So that’s the basic difference betw Catholicism and Protestantism.

As for other religions, we see the God-given desire in their adherents to find the Source of all their Good, to find God and have a relationship with Him, to know Him and to thank…someone…for all the good one has received, and petition the Source for help and aid in their life’s journey. Even atheists, I think, feel a need to be thankful and petition for help, but perhaps suppress it, like the Protestants.

It’s not so much that Catholics are like adherents of primitive religions, as much as Protestants are like atheists.

Let us pray that Protestants, adherents of non-Christian religions, atheists, and Catholics strive or keep striving to find, know, and thank the Source, come into union with God, and not be waylaid and side-tracked off that road by worshipping a false conception & understanding of God (a god made in man’s image out of his meager, finite understanding), another created object, or themselves.

 

[lynnvinc]

…When someone has an agenda it sooo easy to look for “facts” out of context that then somehow “fit” the hipotesis as long as you don’t look too closely at them.

geez where did I see this happen recently? I yeah the global warming fiasco

Glad you’ve been reading the debunking of the oil-funded climate change denialist industry “fake science.” I was beginning to think people were getting too much into dev-oil worship.

Which brings up the issue of science (real science, not devoil fake science). It is perhaps because the Judeo-Christian religion believes in a transcendent (tho also immanent) God – not the anthropomorphic, pantheistic deities in non-Christian religions, that science was made possible. Because creation or parts of it have been conceived of as not God, tho created by God and operating on God’s laws, natural laws, scientific laws, people were then free to study creation and those natural laws.

Think of creation as another bible written directly by God, and scientists are its exigesis specialists. God is Truth and scientists and scientific findings should be respected, even tho scientific “truths” are provisional, subject to change with better evidence and theories.

In other words, storms do not happen because the storm-god is angry, and we cannot manipulate natural forces thru shamanistic powers, because our transcendent God (“totally other,” not created) is the source of all and all power. At the most we can petition God for help, and He can calm the waters.

And science has led us to understand that we (sinners as we are) are contributing to global warming, and it is not “mother earth” getting hot and angry at us.

And the only solution is that we reduce our greenhouse gas emissions, not petition and propitiate “mother earth,” even tho it has been my experience, it required tremendous amount of prayers to God to help me find solutions and then to help me implement them. And Halleluia, He has answered them beyond my wildest dreams!

Of course, those enthralled to the devoils, like adherents to primitive religions, will not be able to understand our transcendent God (totally other and beyond our finite, anthropomorphizing conceptions) is Truth, Power, and Love and the source of creation and its science. They simply will not be able to understand or accept the science of anthropogenic climate change.

 

[JerryZ]

Real science, observes a fact or phenomena
Proposes a theory to explain the fact/phenomena
Collects data/evidence/measurements
Checks for congruence or deviation from theory
If deviation occurs changes theory accordingly to better fit the data/evidence/measurement

THAT is the “Scientific Method”

When someone tampers with the data or hides it or destroy it so that HIS theory does not need to be revised he is no longer a scientist but a charlatan, no better than a voodo witch doctor (to keep within the thread).

The fact that many people have made billions of $$ out of this only makes it worse.

Do I oppose the development of technologies that lower our (human) impact on the environment?
Of course not we are stewards of this planet.