Catholicism and Voodoo: How to Respond?

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Real science, observes a fact or phenomena
Proposes a theory to explain the fact/phenomena
Collects data/evidence/measurements
Checks for congruence or deviation from theory
If deviation occurs changes theory accordingly to better fit the data/evidence/measurement

THAT is the “Scientific Method”

When someone tampers with the data or hides it or destroy it so that HIS theory does not need to be revised he is no longer a scientist but a charlatan, no better than a voodo witch doctor (to keep within the thread).

The fact that many people have made billions of $$ out of this only makes it worse.

Do I oppose the development of technologies that lower our (human) impact on the environment?
Of course not we are stewards of this planet. 👍
Exactly. The denialist industry henchmen have twisted, cherry-picked, used logical fallacies, and perverted climate science to their own ends & for filthy lucre, and when they have been unable to do that, they simply attack and lie about the real climate scientists. If they are not repentant they will end up in a place a lot hotter than a globally warmed world and for all eternity. :eek:
 
Idea
  1. ask him to read John 3:16 for the class
John 3:16
New International Version (NIV)
16*For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Then say isnt that why Catholics, orthodox, and coptics ask Mary and the saints to pray for them because she has eternal life in heaven like he bible says. Just like you could ask your Baptsit pastor for his prayers. Why do you ask him why don’t you just go directly to god ??
  1. if he goes off on some dead end tangent I always end with a question that there is no way they can answer. “since Protestants have only excepted birth control since 1930 do you think the exceptence of this moral evil will be the fall or Protestantism ???”
 
Any “resemblance” between Voodoo and Catholicsm is simply a function of slaves from Africa attempting to put a Catholic facade on their traditional beliefs in an effort to convince their French Catholic slave-owners that they had converted when, in fact, they had not.
It’s as simple as that. Anyone trying to present it as an influence of Voodoo on Catholicism, or vice-versa, is showing either pure ignorance or anti-Catholic bias. It’s as simple as that.
 
Any “resemblance” between Voodoo and Catholicsm is simply a function of slaves from Africa attempting to put a Catholic facade on their traditional beliefs in an effort to convince their French Catholic slave-owners that they had converted when, in fact, they had not.
It’s as simple as that. Anyone trying to present it as an influence of Voodoo on Catholicism, or vice-versa, is showing either pure ignorance or anti-Catholic bias. It’s as simple as that.
You have to remember, of course, that such syncretism is a common occurence among peoples recently converted to Catholicism. For example, among the Anglo-Saxons, there was concern among the clergy that the laity were merely putting a Catholice facade over their traditional beliefs. Needless to say the clergy of England were much more effective than those in what is now Haiti.

Also, poor catechesis due to a variety of factors means that many in that part of the world will combine perfectly acceptable Catholic devotions with Voudoun, indeed, claiming to be both - not for nothing is it said that the Haitians are 90% Catholic, and 100% Voudoun. While an exaggeration, it does hafe a grain of truth.
 
You have to remember, of course, that such syncretism is a common occurence among peoples recently converted to Catholicism. For example, among the Anglo-Saxons, there was concern among the clergy that the laity were merely putting a Catholice facade over their traditional beliefs. Needless to say the clergy of England were much more effective than those in what is now Haiti.

Also, poor catechesis due to a variety of factors means that many in that part of the world will combine perfectly acceptable Catholic devotions with Voudoun, indeed, claiming to be both - not for nothing is it said that the Haitians are 90% Catholic, and 100% Voudoun. While an exaggeration, it does hafe a grain of truth.
On that note, I’m thinking that there is plenty of syncretism here in the U.S. – mammon worship with a light Christian facade 🙂

In India there is also syncretism. I did a paper on “little tradition” syncretism, which the common folk Catholics practice without much awareness of the Hindu elements, and “great tradition” syncretism – a few priests made a conscious effort in the light of Vatican II and “interfaith dialogue” to bring some outwardly Hindu customs/styles into Catholicism – like the priest sitting cross-legged on the floor doing Mass on a low altar/table and a Catholic chapel built to slightly resemble Hindu temple architecture.

The latter “great tradition” syncretism did not go against Catholicism as much as the former does, but the uproar against the this latter was tremendous, and it didn’t really catch on at all.

However, I must say that good Catholics in India are aware of their faith, even more that I am/was. In 1984 doing fieldwork there I went to a Hindu puja with my Catholic mother-in-law. They had some prasadam – bread offered to the deity to eat, then passed around to the people. I ate some, and my mother-in-law scolded me it was a violation of Christianity. I didn’t believe it, but when I got back to our home I looked it up, and sure enough it says one cannot partake in the offerings to other deities. The situation had just never come up for me in America.

There are other more serious violations of Catholicism and the teaching of Jesus in India – like they still practice the caste system and caste oppression and atrocities, esp in the villages. In one Catholic village we studied, the superior caste totally rejected the dalit caste (untouchables) bid to escape severe oppression and for equality and decent treatment – the situation was actually worse than in Hindu villages, where it is bad enough.

And then there is similar syncretism between Catholicism in the U.S. and teapartyism and political conservatism (which is founded on anti-Catholic Enlightenment philosophy).

I guess if we look at Protestantism we can see a lot of syncretism or cultural corruption of Christianity (more a case of adaptation to anti-Christian elements of a culture than syncretism). For instance, even tho Wesley in Europe wrote strongly against slavery, the Methodist church in the U.S. condoned it pre-Civil War. And there’s much more re other Protestant denominations.

I’d like to see a competition among all the Christian denomination for who can be the most Christian – and maybe see if non-Christians would like to get in on it to see if they can out-Christian the Christians 🙂
 
Any “resemblance” between Voodoo and Catholicsm is simply a function of slaves from Africa attempting to put a Catholic facade on their traditional beliefs in an effort to convince their French Catholic slave-owners that they had converted when, in fact, they had not.
It’s as simple as that. Anyone trying to present it as an influence of Voodoo on Catholicism, or vice-versa, is showing either pure ignorance or anti-Catholic bias. It’s as simple as that.
^this^

Same thing with regards to Santeria. Using Catholic imagery to hide the religion they are truly following.
 
So, in college I’ve been taking a “Traditional Religions” course which basically looks at more primitive religions (shamanism, witchcraft, primitive paganism, etc.). We’ve spent a significant amount of time in that class over Vodoun, a.k.a. Voodoo.

My problem is that the professor (who was actually a former member of the Southern Baptist Convention Sunday School Board) keeps droning on and on about the similarities between Catholicism and Vodoun. Today we watched a documentary in class (we’ve already watched a couple) and yet again it harped on how Catholic saints are similar to Vodoun Loa, how prayers to the saints are similar to prayers to Loa, Catholic and Vodoun shrines are similar, rituals are similar, feast days, saints names, etc.

I think the filmmakers were trying to show Vodoun as “mainstream” by noting the similarities and I think my professor uses the “similarities” to demonstrate how Vodoun isn’t as weird or extreme as we first think. (He’s not the typical Baptist anyway) However, to a class full of Protestants it seems like it just makes Catholicism out to be a bunch of idolatry and witchcraft too.

Anyhow, my question is how should I respond to this? One girl next to me said to me how she thought Catholicism was just as “bad” as Vodoun (b/c Catholics “worship” Mary by praying to her, etc.). I tried to explain the reality to her. Of course, I don’t think she knows I’m Catholic since I’ve recently converted.

I’ve thought about the answers to such questions before, but what responses anybody else would give.
I recently read a book that caught my eye in the library that said that voodoo was a religion that combined Catholic and African beliefs and rituals. I had never heard this before and was quite surprised and can see how a false religion (voodoo) can make the one true religion (Catholicism) look bad and mislead people. I also came across this link which states the following:

[Voodoo, religion of Haiti, also practiced in Cuba, Trinidad, Brazil, and the southern United States, especially Louisiana. Voodoo combines elements of Roman Catholicism and tribal religions of western Africa, particularly Benin. Voodoo cults worship a high god, Bon Dieu; ancestors or, more generally, the dead; twins; and spirits called Ioa. The Ioa, which may vary from cult to cult, are African tribal gods that are usually identified with Roman Catholic saints. The snake god, for example, is identified with St. Patrick. Other elements of Roman Catholicism in voodoo include the use of candles, bells, crosses, and prayers and the practices of baptism and making the sign of the cross. Among the African elements are dancing, drumming, and the worship of ancestors and twins.

The rituals of voodoo are often led by a priest, called a houngan, or a priestess, called a mambo. During the ritual the worshipers invoke the Ioa by drumming, dancing, singing, and feasting, and the Ioa take possession of the dancers. Each dancer then behaves in a manner characteristic of the possessing spirit and while in an ecstatic trance performs cures and gives advice.]

This “religion” has obviously misinterpreted the way Catholics pray to the Saints in Heaven and ask them to interceed for us because we don’t pray to the dead. I don’t know I would assume that Voodooism is a false religion.

I also came across these 2 links as the book I read talked about a woman named Marie Laveau who is considered the “Queen of Voodoo” and she was what they called a practicing and devout Catholic ? Who was obviously very mixed up - and she was close friends with a priest named Father Antonio de Sedella, also known as Pere Antoine of her parish church, St Louis Cathedral.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Laveau

strangehistory.org/cms/index.php/home/17-marie-catherine-laveau-voodoo-queen-of-new-orleans-september-10-1801-june-15-1881

New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia records the following are here is the link:

newadvent.org/cathen/11005b.htm

“Father Antonio (popularly known as “Père Antoine*”) was destined to exert a remarkable influence in the colony. Few priests have been more assailed by historians, but a careful comparison of the ancient records of the cathedral with the traditions that cluster about his memory show that he did not deserve on the one hand the indignities which Gayarré and Shea heap upon him, nor yet the excessive honours with which tradition had crowned him. From the cathedral archives it has been proven that he was simply an earnest priest striving to do what he thought his duty amid many difficulties.”]

Post more info when you come across it. It is strange.
 
:hmmm: soo voodo did not assimilate some of the practices of catholicism?
Because from what I understand in Haiti the preponderance is Catholicism AND voodo.

When someone has an agenda it sooo easy to look for “facts” out of context that then somehow “fit” the hipotesis as long as you don’t look too closely at them.

geez where did I see this happen recently? I yeah the global warming fiasco :rolleyes:
Hey slow down a little bit. I am Haitian and a practicing Catholic. I t has always been like that in my family. Yes , we heard about the voodo thing, but we are not a participant as are as many. Like one OP explained in earliest post the images of the saints was just a cover up, that has nothing to do with the Catholic Church. Next time you saw your teacher ask him HOW did he came about knowing these things. I don’t think he went to Haiti for research purposes.
 
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