Catholicism believes many things that are wrong.

[PJM]

Dear friends in Christ,

I came across this yesterday but did not have time to reply. Today, I could not locate it.

Part 1 of 2 Because of length it is on two POST

Catholicism believes many things that are wrong. /’QUOTE]

I am a firm believer. A Christian. Not a Catholic. Catholics have many beliefs that are never mentioned in The Bible. For Catholics who read this, please remember this: the person that tells you the truth is one that cares.

Please forgive my shorting some of your comments made necessary by limited space.

In order to respond more fully, I need to make a couple of assumptions. You belief that the bible is the inspired word of God? And you belief that I too should accept “God’s word?”

Jn. 21: 23 25 “But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.”

So friend, this seems to be saying- that “everything is NOT written in the bible.”

-CATHOLIC TRADITION - Purgatory.
-WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS – It was never mentioned in the Bible. It is a sin to add to the Bible.
True Christians are already purified because Jesus put away all sin on the cross: He died for our sins. He dies for them….

Is it also a sin to not accept the entire bible?

How do you reconcile these bible verses with OSAS?

Mt.16: “19** I (Jesus) will give you (St. Peter / 1st. Pope) the keys of the kingdom of heaven**, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

1 Jn. 5: 16 “If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin, which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.”

Here we see that from God’s perspective there are two categories of sin. “Lesser” and “Mortal.” Mortal of course means “deadly.” They are so serious as to “kill” our relationship with God, and separate us from His Love. Unconfessed they send us to Hell!

Jn. 20: 21” Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, ]"Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."

1 Jn. 1: “9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” Also see 2 Cor. 5:17-20 and 2 Cor.2:10-11, Lk. 10:16

So here is a question:

Is Jesus already a. Our Redeemer and Savior b. Our Redeemer but not yet our Savior c. Our Savior but not our Redeemer?** The correct answer is “b.”**

**Question: Can we describe “our God” as:

All everything good?
All everything good completely?
All everything good, completely and perfectly?**

As a necessary part of God’s “Goodness” can we say that God is “just” and “fair?” YES we can.

So for the point of illustration:

Let’s say you steal $50.00 from me and when I try to get it back in anger I kill you. I then run away and get hit by a car and I too am killed. Both of us have “sinned”, mine is more serious (Mortal) yours is not, and we both die before we are able to Confess and get forgiveness.

Will God who is and must be JUST, judge us the same? No… In Justice He can not! It would be anti-perfect-God!

In this account I died with unrepented and unconfessed “Mortal” so I have doomed MYSELF to Hell. You have died with sin that was less serious, yet it is unrepented and unconfessed.

Mt. 5: “46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you salute only your brethren, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

FYI… Even when Catholic Doctrine is not explicit in the bible, it is still implicitly found there.

Why does Jesus who is an all-perfect God tell us that we to “must be perfect?”

The reason has to do with the Divine and All-Perfect everything good God., whose very Nature will not tolerate anything less than Perfection in His Presence. That, is where the absolute need for purgatory comes into play.

In our case above you died (as do many) with unrepented and unconfessed sin, so in Divine Justice that God cannot deny, “you” need to be perfected before you enter into the Kingdom of heaven. (See Mt. 16:19)!

Please ask yourself, why Jesus gave us the Commandments, why we are told that we “must confess our sins” and why Jesus tells us we “must be made perfect,” if what I’m quoting from the bible is not true?

CATHOLIC TRADITION - Confessing sins to a priest.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - We are to confess our sins and needs to God alone. A sinner cannot forgive a sinner on behalf of God

Well researched my friend.

1. Catholics too believe that ONLY GOD CAN and ONLY GOD DOES FORGIVE SINS!

Yes, every Catholic from me to the Pope is obligated to OBEY THE BIBLE COMMANDS OF JESUS.And yes we all go to Confession.

Look at John 20:21 ” Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” Now go back and reread verse #23. Then reread Mt.16:18-20.

2. It is God working though His priest, Bishops, Popes that:

Channel Gods Forgiveness to the pentenient. God is doing the forgiving, the Confessor is just asking on behalf of the “sinner” for God’s forgiveness, and passes it on to the one confessing.

Please see the next post, thanks

 

[PJM]

Catholicism believes many things that are wrong.

Part 2 of 2

Part 2 of 2 Defending the Catholic Faith

The “Confessor” is made necessary by Divine Mandate, and is to determine if, if, the person confessing is truly repentant in fulfilling Gods mandate to “forgive” or to not-forgive and “bind.” The Confessor also binds the person confessing to sincerely work at not sinning again, and assigns a “penance” (in lieu of OT sacrifice /sin-offering.)

Then, if the one confessing is found to be sincerely repentant the Confessor will grant “Absolution”; the words used are: I absolve you from your sins in the name of The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit, go and sin no-more!” Thus we can term this Sacrament as the Sacrament of KNOWN FORGIVENESS!

As in our Sacred Liturgy, and Catholic Holy Communion, the priest for a brief period of time is miraculously transformed into, for an instant, into the very person of Christ, who is the one who forgives, and is the one makes bread and wine into His Very Body and Blood.

Dear friend in charity, please use the entire word of God, not just what is convenient for you.

GOD gave disciples or apostles the power to forgive sins, but no where in The Bible does it say that he gave them the power to pass down the power to forgive sins.

Actually friend Jesus Did exactly what your saying He did not do.

Mt. 16: 17 And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

So here we find Jesus Founding His Catholic Church, with Peter in charge. The terms “loose” and or “bind” were well known, BINDING AT LAW, Rabbinical terms for unsupervised, unlimited, complete authority to Govern, make laws, rules and regulations and enforce them.

Surely Jesus would not “Found” His Church and expect it to die with Peter? That is absurd!

Dear friend, may I ask in charity and truth, that instead of making misleading statements, it might be more Christian simply to ask us to prove what we believe, and whay we believe it.

The bible is a Catholic Book, and our faith is firmly founded on the bible.

Love and prayers, Pat

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

PJM,

I am going to go out on a limb and say that the OP of the thread that you are referring to was banned and all his/her posts were deleted. Just a wild guess.

Good stuff though. Maybe the person is still lurking and will read what you posted.

God bless

 

[twopekinguys]

PJM,

I am going to go out on a limb and say that the OP of the thread that you are referring to was banned and all his/her posts were deleted. Just a wild guess.

Good stuff though. Maybe the person is still lurking and will read what you posted.

God bless

Yes, the OP of that thread was banned…again.

 

[josie_L]

PJM,

I am going to go out on a limb and say that the OP of the thread that you are referring to was banned and all his/her posts were deleted. Just a wild guess.

Good stuff though. Maybe the person is still lurking and will read what you posted.

God bless

Oh, now you’ve got me curious, who is the person you are refering to?

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

Oh, now you’ve got me curious, who is the person you are refering to?

You don’t want to know

Lets just leave it at; he/she was banned for good reason and not a minute to soon.

God bless

 

[twopekinguys]

You can say that again.

 

[GKC]

He gave me a chance to list a bunch of my books, which I always enjoy, so it wasn’t a total loss.

GKC

 

[humble_in_doubt]

I am a firm believer. A Christian. Not a Catholic. Catholics have many beliefs that are never mentioned in The Bible. For Catholics who read this, please remember this: the person that tells you the truth is one that cares.

Someone wrote this (but it was shoved in a post without the identity of its OP). At any rate, what stuck out is “the person who tells you the truth is one that cares.”

OK … see guys I care. There is no invisible friend, no angels flying around the sky, no invisible god ever split the Red Sea, no woman named Eve was ever made from a lump of clay, and there’s no such thing as a talking snake.

Do you guys know how silly this all sounds? Imagine if any of us were to rush out and proclaim to our friends and neighbors that we had these sorts of revelations … they would toss us in a loony bin right? Fortunately for Paul they had no loony bins back then huh?

 

[GKC]

Someone wrote this (but it was shoved in a post without the identity of its OP). At any rate, what stuck out is “the person who tells you the truth is one that cares.”

OK … see guys I care. There is no invisible friend, no angels flying around the sky, no invisible god ever split the Red Sea, no woman named Eve was ever made from a lump of clay, and there’s no such thing as a talking snake.

Do you guys know how silly this all sounds? Imagine if any of us were to rush out and proclaim to our friends and neighbors that we had these sorts of revelations … they would toss us in a loony bin right? Fortunately for Paul they had no loony bins back then huh?

I think you are right, about the lump of clay.

GKC

 

[PJM]

=humble_in_doubt;5038168]Someone wrote this (but it was shoved in a post without the identity of its OP). At any rate, what stuck out is “the person who tells you the truth is one that cares.”

OK … see guys I care. There is no invisible friend, no angels flying around the sky, no invisible god ever split the Red Sea, no woman named Eve was ever made from a lump of clay, and there’s no such thing as a talking snake.

Do you guys know how silly this all sounds? Imagine if any of us were to rush out and proclaim to our friends and neighbors that we had these sorts of revelations … they would toss us in a loony bin right? Fortunately for Paul they had no loony bins back then huh?

Friend thanks for the info.

The Bible is the TRUE Word of God! Everything in it is TRUE, does that mean the Everything in the bible is also FACTUAL?

I know who Calvin is but not his views on Sacred Scripture. What is it he said that impressed you so?

Love and prayers,

 

[humble_in_doubt]

Friend thanks for the info.

The Bible is the TRUE Word of God! Everything in it is TRUE, does that mean the Everything in the bible is also FACTUAL?

I know who Calvin is but not his views on Sacred Scripture. What is it he said that impressed you so?

Love and prayers,

Nothing Calvin said impressed me, I simply think he understood the meaning of a book I consider ancient mythology better than most other theologians I’ve read, that’s all. Why would I be impressed with a man who devoted his life to understanding a fairy tale better than the next guy?

You want to impress me, build a great new software application, discover some new treatment for a disease, finish that quantum computer we keep hoping for, finally find a unified theory of physics, etc. Give us something we can use, not fairy tales.

 

[humble_in_doubt]

I think you are right, about the lump of clay.

GKC

I’m right about all of it … it’s you guys who live in a fantasy world; but hey as long as you guys restrict your hatred of other religions (or hatred masked as love … or whatever you want to call it) and other people to hoopla on the internet, I suppose it’s harmless enough.

I’m just glad our new administration isn’t going to allow ancient mythology to guide their policy (which is quite scary for those of us who have common sense).

 

[The_Iambic_Pen]

OK … see guys I care. There is no invisible friend, no angels flying around the sky, no invisible god ever split the Red Sea, no woman named Eve was ever made from a lump of clay, and there’s no such thing as a talking snake.

Or, in keeping with your user name, would it be more accurate to say that, in all humility, you doubt that these things are true?

Do you guys know how silly this all sounds?

Some would say it sounds silly to put more stock in the movie *Religulous *than in two thousand years of Christian teaching.

Imagine if any of us were to rush out and proclaim to our friends and neighbors that we had these sorts of revelations …they would toss us in a loony bin right? Fortunately for Paul they had no loony bins back then huh?

Paul, of course, was not proclaiming all of Scripture and religious teaching to be the result of his own revelations. The belief in God, angels, the miracle at the Red Sea, the creation of Eve (from Adam’s rib, not directly from a lump of clay, incidentally), and the talking serpent all existed long before Paul or the Christian religion.

I agree that if one person (or perhaps a small committee) just invented the entire Judeo-Christian mythology, and began teaching it one day, claiming it all as a personal revelation from God, it would sound very silly.

 

[Tim_Kirchoff]

I’m right about all of it … it’s you guys who live in a fantasy world; but hey as long as you guys restrict your hatred of other religions (or hatred masked as love … or whatever you want to call it) and other people to hoopla on the internet, I suppose it’s harmless enough.

I’m just glad our new administration isn’t going to allow ancient mythology to guide their policy (which is quite scary for those of us who have common sense).

Wow- you must be the best judge of character and intent I could ever hope to meet. You join the forum, and within a week, you know these people well enough to judge them as irrational hate-filled idiots.

You come here, to a Catholic forum and simply dismiss our entire belief system as a fairy tale and allege that religious persons, or those who believe that religion can indeed play a role in public affairs, do not have common sense. Way to convince us of anything

 

[Ignatius]

Dear friends in Christ,

I came across this yesterday but did not have time to reply. Today, I could not locate it.

Part 1 of 2 Because of length it is on two POST

Catholicism believes many things that are wrong. /’QUOTE]

Please forgive my shorting some of your comments made necessary by limited space.

In order to respond more fully, I need to make a couple of assumptions. You belief that the bible is the inspired word of God? And you belief that I too should accept “God’s word?”

Jn. 21: 23 25 “But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.”

Kudos, what an excellent response. God bless.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

Wow- you must be the best judge of character and intent I could ever hope to meet. You join the forum, and within a week, you know these people well enough to judge them as irrational hate-filled idiots.

You come here, to a Catholic forum and simply dismiss our entire belief system as a fairy tale and allege that religious persons, or those who believe that religion can indeed play a role in public affairs, do not have common sense. Way to convince us of anything

He’s humble about it though…

I don’t really mind being called illogical or irrational by a person who would stand “impressed” by a “new software application” or finding a “unified theory of physics”()… To each his own I suppose

God bless

 

[humble_in_doubt]

Wow- you must be the best judge of character and intent I could ever hope to meet. You join the forum, and within a week, you know these people well enough to judge them as irrational hate-filled idiots.

You come here, to a Catholic forum and simply dismiss our entire belief system as a fairy tale and allege that religious persons, or those who believe that religion can indeed play a role in public affairs, do not have common sense. Way to convince us of anything

OK perhaps I was a bit over zealous in my reply post (can an atheist be over zealous?? Hmmm, interesting thought). I guess I wasn’t displaying sufficient candor or proper demeanor when I berated your faith system, so I plead guilty to the charge.

Frankly though, I’m not trying to “convince” you of anything (I’m not foolish enough to think I can dissuade Christians away from their faith). I’m just on a long business trip & I’m kind of bored (now if I was a drunkard and adulterer I’m sure I could find much more interesting things to keep me busy, but I’m not … and such is the irony of life).

However, I don’t believe most Christians are inherently “hate filled” but rather the natural discourse between those of different denominations and different religions all together inevitably becomes “hateful” (and no matter how you slice it this is a fact). Moreover, I can’t help but to find religion equivalent to any other sort of ancient mythology. You always have this god or gods who conveniently never reveal themselves. They always have only revealed themselves to ancient men, and there’s always some profound reason why they don’t reveal themselves now … to you and me. Well, I think that’s obvious nonsense.

BTW (to the poster above who made a comment referring to religolous) I don’t even like Bill Maher & moreover I found his movie to be a simplistic smear of religion, which in many cases had its facts all wrong (particularly when Maher was drawing parallels to Christianity & ancient pagan deities). One thing I can’t stand is bad information or someone who puts themselves out there as an expert on something (much less makes a movie about a topic) & doesn’t even take the time to properly research the facts.

Ahhh … I vented

 

[humble_in_doubt]

He’s humble about it though…

I don’t really mind being called illogical or irrational by a person who would stand “impressed” by a “new software application” or finding a “unified theory of physics”()… To each his own I suppose

God bless

come on you gotta admit … finding a unified theory of physics would be pretty impressive? Almost as impressive will be when they get that super-collider in Switzerland going (and if they can capture some dark matter).

Do you guys know that scientists have actually found a way to teleport quantum particles. Imagine if one day we can do this with large objects, or even humans? Imagine if a wormhole can move us back in time. Physicists are working on building a wormhole now (a small one incapable of transporting humans, not that our mass could hold up in a wormhole anyway). These things do impress me … I concede.

Do you guys think it’s OK for science to do these things? What if one day within a few decades science finds a way to make humans immortal (scientists have already discovered how to make a single cell immortal). Would this be playing god? Curious as to what your views are …

 

[GKC]

I’m right about all of it … it’s you guys who live in a fantasy world; but hey as long as you guys restrict your hatred of other religions (or hatred masked as love … or whatever you want to call it) and other people to hoopla on the internet, I suppose it’s harmless enough.

I’m just glad our new administration isn’t going to allow ancient mythology to guide their policy (which is quite scary for those of us who have common sense).

Could be. I just wondered where you found the woman/lump of clay.

GKC