Catholicism = Christianity

[phil19034]

I agree with this, BUT also note some people use “Christian” as just a shorthand for “non-Catholic Christian” or “Protestant”. Many who are non-Catholic Christians, especially “non-denominational” evangelical Christians, do NOT identify as “Protestant” at all, they identify as “Christian”. The historical Protestant Reformation really isn’t something they really think or care about that much.

Also, many are in “Bible Belt” communities where the Catholic population is very small and most “Christians” aren’t Catholic. They may not even know the Orthodox Church exists, though the members of the Orthodox Church are not Catholics, but aren’t Protestants, either.

***So when they say “Christian” they mean “non-Catholic Christian”. Many who ask “are you Christian or Catholic” would clarify themselves if questioned “oh, you think Catholics aren’t Christian, then?” They’re not actually consciously thinking Catholics aren’t saved or don’t really worship Jesus. ***

Also note, many Catholics themselves, if asked “Are you Christian?” will state "No, I’m Catholic". Obviously, that’s not because they don’t consider themselves followers of Christ Jesus.

A few comments from your post:

1. this whole notion of Protestants not identifying as Protestant is a rather modern phenomenon, and very American. I believe it comes from two places: 1st is the growth of the “non-denominational” churches and 2nd is the fact that many protestants now jump around to different protestant Churches. Many are no longer exclusive to just the protestant denomination they grew up in. So because they might go to a Baptist church one month and then to a “non-denominational” then next month, and then a reformed-Presbyterian church the following month; they don’t identify as any of them.
2. any Protestant, who claims Catholics are not Christian and knows exactly what the Orthodox Church teaches & believes, would not consider the Orthodox to be Christian either. They might be considered more palatable because they reject the Pope, but they would still be viewed as idolatrous (assuming they those protestants view Catholics as idolatrous).
3. Anyone who asks “are you Christian or Catholic” plainly does believe that Catholics are not true Christians (like Mormons) and that Catholics need to be converted. They might be politically correct about it when challenged, but the reason they are using that phrase is because they subconsciously (if not consciously) believe there is a difference between Christians and Catholics. If they truly believed that Catholics were Christians (and simply didn’t like the Protestant label) they would ask “What denomination are you?” They would not ask “are you Christian or Catholic?”
4. Finally, any Catholic who says “I’m not Christian, I’m Catholic” needs to be slapped across the back of the head.

God Bless

 

[Padres1969]

A few comments from your post:

1. this whole notion of Protestants not identifying as Protestant is a rather modern phenomenon, and very American. I believe it comes from two places: 1st is the growth of the “non-denominational” churches and 2nd is the fact that many protestants now jump around to different protestant Churches. Many are no longer exclusive to just the protestant denomination they grew up in. So because they might go to a Baptist church one month and then to a “non-denominational” then next month, and then a reformed-Presbyterian church the following month; they don’t identify as any of them.
2. any Protestant, who claims Catholics are not Christian and knows exactly what the Orthodox Church teaches & believes, would not consider the Orthodox to be Christian either. They might be considered more palatable because they reject the Pope, but they would still be viewed as idolatrous (assuming they those protestants view Catholics as idolatrous).
3. Anyone who asks “are you Christian or Catholic” plainly does believe that Catholics are not true Christians (like Mormons) and that Catholics need to be converted. They might be politically correct about it when challenged, but the reason they are using that phrase is because they subconsciously (if not consciously) believe there is a difference between Christians and Catholics. If they truly believed that Catholics were Christians (and simply didn’t like the Protestant label) they would ask “What denomination are you?” They would not ask “are you Christian or Catholic?”
4. Finally, any Catholic who says “I’m not Christian, I’m Catholic” needs to be slapped across the back of the head.

God Bless

Just a few comments on your comments

1. I’d add to that, that it’s not just the individuals jumping around between churches/denominations. It’s also many churches de-emphasizing what denomination they are and focusing solely on being Christian. Take the immediate neighborhood near my house. We have 8 Christian Churches (and one Mormon meetinghouse) within one mile of my house. 4 clearly identify who they are, Catholic, Lutheran, Seventh Day Adventist, and Mormon. Of the other 5, 2 are entirely non-denominational (one with a Chinese emphasis) so they obviously don’t claim to be anything but Christian, and 3 are actually denominational churches. But unless you dig you would not know that. They don’t advertise very much, if at all, what denomination they are (for example one of them on their church website it’s a tiny throwaway line at the bottom of their “About Us” page). But of the 3 one is an Southern Baptist Convention Church, one is Assemblies of God USA, and another is Baptist (though search me what specific Baptist denomination they’re affiliated with). When their denominational affiliation is given such minimal attention, it’s hard for adherents to think of themselves as part of any particular Protestant branch of Christianity. Rather just being Christian as an emphasis becomes the norm.
2. When you consider how many misconceptions many Protestants have about Catholics, despite Catholicism being the largest single Christian branch in the US, it shouldn’t be surprising that the Orthodox are often ignored. Not because they accept them any better, it’s simply because they’re an often unknown or little known quantity. I mean there’s only a little more than a million Orthodox in the US. There are 65 million Catholics (or at least claimed Catholics). The RCC is a MUCH bigger target.

 

[phil19034]

Just a few comments on your comments

1. I’d add to that, that it’s not just the individuals jumping around between churches/denominations. It’s also many churches de-emphasizing what denomination they are and focusing solely on being Christian. Take the immediate neighborhood near my house. We have 8 Christian Churches (and one Mormon meetinghouse) within one mile of my house. 4 clearly identify who they are, Catholic, Lutheran, Seventh Day Adventist, and Mormon. Of the other 5, 2 are entirely non-denominational (one with a Chinese emphasis), and 3 are actually denominational churches. But unless you dig you would not know that. They don’t advertise very much, if at all, what denomination they are (for example one of them on their church website it’s a tiny throwaway line at the bottom of their “About Us” page). But of the 3 one is an Southern Baptist Church, one is Assemblies of God, and another is Baptist (though search me what specific Baptist denomination they’re affiliated with). When their denominational affiliation is given such minimal attention, it’s hard for adherents to think of themselves as part of any particular Protestant branch of Christianity. Rather just being Christian as an emphasis becomes the norm.
2. When you consider how many misconceptions many Protestants have about Catholics, despite Catholicism being the largest single Christian branch in the US, it shouldn’t be surprising that the Orthodox are often ignored. Not because they accept them any better, it’s simply because they’re an often unknown or little known quantity. I mean there’s only a little more than a million Orthodox in the US. There are 65 million Catholics (or at least claimed Catholics). The RCC is a MUCH bigger target.

Agreed

 

[CatholicRaven]

When I have been asked whether I’m “Christian or Catholic,” and I am not sure what their knowledge or intent is, I usually ask what they mean by the question. I might say, “I’m not sure what you mean; are you asking whether I’m a Catholic Christian or a non-Catholic Christian?” or something similar.

Sometimes, if I think they are just uninformed, I’ll answer, “yes.”
“Yes, which?”
“Yes, both.” And get to be amused by the confused expression they make.
Then it might lead to a cool conversation.

If I get the impression that they’re being argumentative, I usually just give the short answer, “Both,” and then change the subject, because they aren’t likely to listen to more than that, anyway.

 

[guanophore]

Also note, many Catholics themselves, if asked “Are you Christian?” will state “No, I’m Catholic”. Obviously, that’s not because they don’t consider themselves followers of Christ Jesus.

Yes, this is problematic. Catholics need to learn how to say “I am a Catholic Christian”.

Your very welcome

And don’t forget Acts 9:31, the first place we find the One Church described as Catholic.

Ἡ μὲν οὖν ἐκκλησία καθ’ ὅλης τῆς Ἰουδαίας καὶ Γαλιλαίας καὶ Σαμαρείας εἶχεν εἰρήνην, οἰκοδομουμένη καὶ πορευομένη τῷ φόβῳ τοῦ κυρίου, καὶ τῇ παρακλήσει τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος ἐπληθύνετο.

Ecclesia Kath Holos = the church throughout (universal). By the time Iggy used this modifyer some 50 years later, it was common parlance.

 

[jtoth]

What a wonderful opportunity, Joe, and you seem to be making the most of it!

Yes, I get this a lot and it makes my blood boil… I am not in a position to correct them though.

This did not get started by people claiming that Catholics are not Christians, though there are some fundamentalists that do teach that. Rather, it is an avoidance of the term “Protestant” by modern evangelicals who believe they are “not protesting anything”. They don’t realize that their theology and practices are Protestant.

What they mean to say, in setting Catholicism against “Christian” is that they are “bible Christians” (extract their faith from the Bible), as opposed to Catholics, who received the faith from the successors of the Apostles.

I like to use the opportunity to say that Catholics are the first Christians, and all the denonimnations are people that left the faith passed down by the Apostles and created their own ideas of what it means to be Christian. This is risky, tho.

I try my hardest to take advantage of all opportunities the classroom affords me. Unfortunately, public school makes it extremely difficulty (and dangerous) for me to even try to address religion. Some students desperately need some Jesus!!

1. Finally, any Catholic who says “I’m not Christian, I’m Catholic” needs to be slapped across the back of the head.

God Bless

Amen to that! I agree 100% I am proud to say I am Catholic and I am proud to say I am a Christian…one in the same!