Catholicism in decline

[stmaria]

“Evangelical Christianity has become the largest religious tradition in this country, supplanting Roman Catholicism, which is slowly bleeding members, according to a survey released yesterday by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life.”

Although one in three Americans are raised Roman Catholic, only one in four adults describe themselves as such, despite the huge numbers of immigrants swelling American churches, researchers said.

“Immigration is what is keeping them afloat,” said John Green, a Pew senior fellow. “If everyone who was raised Catholic stayed Catholic, it’d be a third of the country.”
Those who leave Catholicism mostly either drop out of church entirely or join Pentecostal or evangelical Protestant churches, Pew Forum director Luis Lugo said. One out of every 10 evangelicals is a former Catholic, he said, with Hispanic Catholics leaving at higher rates; 20 percent of them end up in evangelical or Pentecostal churches.

washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080226/NATION/902727579/1001

 

[catherineajt]

My thoughts…

Those who would abandon the True Church so easily would possibly only damage the true faith from within. We can pray that those who leave the Faith will realize they’re trading substance for shadow, and return to the Church. I have a brother in law who left the Church because he was annoyed that he couldn’t get married in it without annulling his first (20+ year) marriage. He chose gratification over faith. He was able to get what he wanted by going to the Protestant church. Like it or not, we live in a consumerist society and some people just look to a faith for what they can get out of it–not what they can add to it.

Even if only a handful of devout Catholics remained in the US, there would still be a Catholic Church. Being a Catholic, for me, is not about belonging to the biggest church in the world–it’s about the fullness of faith and worship that I find there.

 

[RandA]

How sad.

I think this has happened because Catholicism is a faith that requires alot out of its adherents. For many people, it’s so much easier just to go to another church (or none at all) so that they can do what they want, without recourse to any set rules or doctrine.

I was away from the church for 20 years; during that time, I never considered joining another church. I can’t imagine leaving the Catholic church for another church. I’d much rather strive for the full truth and fail sometimes that to accept a lesser truth that treats my failures as successes.

S.

 

[lucybeebee]

I think there are several trends going on. First, I think the assimulation of ethnic Catholics (e.g., Irish, Italian, Germans) was completed during the 1950s and 1960s and many were probably embarrased by what they considered the “medievel” character of Catholicism. This, combined with the sexual revolution and the confusion surrounding Vatican II, helped numbers decline. Then there is the fact that the term “raised Catholic” can mean anything from “I haven’t darkened the doorstep of a church since I was baptized” to “I was raised in a traditionalist home, homeschooled, until I was 18, and wear a mantilla every Sunday.” What people think they are is often differnent than what they actually are. As with any group, there are a large number of nominal Catholics and a small number of devout Catholics.

 

[ASimpleSinner]

We baptize 1M new members a year and take another 150,00-200,000 into the Church annually here in the US.

What I would be curious to know about, is if this study differentiated between folks who self-identified as “raised Catholic but non-attending or seldome attending”…

That is to say, among ex-Catholics, how many went to Mass weekly + holy days and made good confessions at least once a year, per church law, in their childhood.

I have some distant cousins who got baptized as infants, and that is pretty much where it ended… They take communion at weddings and funerals and self-identify as “Catholic”… And this isn’t judging them, but honestly, if they were to join a Protestant community could they accurately be said to have “left the Catholic Church”? Of course they are members by virtue of their baptism…

How many of the ex-Catholics pretty much fit into that boat? Some here are reading into these studies that faithful church-attending, confessing Catholics are leaving left and right. I suspect the vast majority of those who leave (and their are exceptions of course) were nominally affiliated at best.

 

[Chatter163]

If a statistics student would handle numbers in manner in which the article did, he would surely flunk.

Of course the Catholic Church lost more members than anyone else–it is the largest church. Blah, blah, blah

 

[sheila0405]

Let’s not forget that “Protestant” encompasses hundreds of varying denominations–some estimates are even higher than that. We still need to be aware that some of the evangelical Protestants are very effective in pulling Roman Catholics away from the Church. We as Catholics need to know our faith and be able to defend it well.

 

[Truarchs]

Catholicism cannot decline, only Catholics can. The Truth is not affected by its popularity.

 

[JRKH]

I read this article in the paper yesterday. In actuality they were stating that both Catholics and the traditional protestant churches were losing members relative to the evangelicals.
Why?

First of all we should remember that the US was never a “Catholic” country, and for much of it’s history it has been fairly anti-catholic. (Anyone old
enough to remember John Kennedy’s campaign will know what I mean.)

Second, The church in the US has always grown over the years mainly through immigration, (and large catholic families). I myself come from a German Catholic background.
So I don’t believe the Church really ever felt the need to evangelize. Plus there really weren’t all the “independant” churches that we have today.

Third, The evangelical movement is a powerful draw for the type of consumer society we have today. If you look at their methods, they are proclaiming a simple, clear message of unrestrictive hope and immediate return on investment. Whereas the older, more “staid” churches seem too restrictive.

Fourth, The church herself opended the gates somewhat when she began her eccumenical efforts in the 60’s and 70’s. Before that, (pre VII) the mentality was that you were either Catholc or you were NOT. You never even entered a protestant church, let alone worship there or have a non-catholic minister participate in a marriage ceremony etc.

Fifth, As already pointed out, those who leave the church were probably only nominal catholics in the first place. Hopefully once they have learned as much as they can in their new lifestyle, they will want to return.

In all of these things, there is little to be done except to love our neighbor and project the best of our faith.
Be willing discuss our faith with others in love, and pray daily for our church.

Peace
James

 

[Genesis315]

It’s like when disciples left the Lord saying, “this is a hard teaching, who can accept it?”

The Catholic faith is everything that modern American society does not value–it requires sacrifice, commitment, the proper expression of fruitful sexuality, patriarchy, hierarchy, authority, discipline, objectivity, etc. Many people today (and really since the 1800s) see truth about God as something personal, individualized, or subjective, rather than objective. By their feelings and reason they decide what God should be like and then find a religion that at least allows that kind of belief and has good, practical programs.

It is also the case that the we in America are much like the church of Laodocea (sp?) in Revelation who in their wealth and comfort became lukewarm or even bordered on an indifferent apostacy–I think this is why the Church is growing in, say, Africa where things generally aren’t so great.

Finally, I personally see the divorce mentality present in our culture to a deep degree. Making a commitment to religious vocation or to a Church is similar to a marriage commitment. Many people today have a divorce mentality for all these things–if you’re no longer getting consolations and good feelings, it must be time to move on…

The only way to fix these things is to keep offering the truth in charity–but at the end of the day people have to make a free act of faith–and if they don’t, we can only be like Jesus who let the incredulous disciples leave. http://www3.christianforums.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

 

[Namesake]

First of all we should remember that the US was never a “Catholic” country, and for much of it’s history it has been fairly anti-catholic. (Anyone old
enough to remember John Kennedy’s campaign will know what I mean.)

America has reason to be anti-Catholic based on opinions I have encountered at this web site. People here have stated that their first loyalty if to the Catholic Church, not to the USA. That’s clearly un-American!

That’s what people were worried about JFK, that he would be controlled by Rome. Many people here are controlled by Rome. That isn’t an American attitude. Rome had nothing at all to do with founding this country. Rome had nothing to do with keeping this country free. Rome has no business being the guiding influence for the direction of the USA. The control of the USA has to remain with the USA, not Rome.

 

[bookish]

It’s sad, but I’m not surprised. The state of the Church (especially in America and the UK) is horrendous. Almost diabolical, if that’s the right word. But I think that if someone leaves the CC for a Protestant church, maybe they didn’t really have solid faith first place. I can’t think of a reason for joining one other than lack of a solid religious education. But my opinions don’t matter much. I only wanted to post to keep this up top for other people to write too.

 

[somepurpose]

If a statistics student would handle numbers in manner in which the article did, he would surely flunk.

Of course the Catholic Church lost more members than anyone else–it is the largest church. Blah, blah, blah

Huh? Largest Church where? Blah, blah, blah.

 

[Brennan_Doherty]

Phil Lawler, Editor at Catholic World News, wrote an article on this survey. Here is an excerpt:

The Forum: Pew survey shows America’s vast Catholic exodus cwnews.com/images/optimized/rss_bug.gif

by Phil Lawler
special to CWNews.com

Feb. 27, 2008 (CWNews.com) - One out of every ten adult Americans is a lapsed Catholic. From the Catholic perspective that is the most striking statistic among the many furnished in a “Religious Landscape Survey” by the Pew Forum.

…If they qualified as a separate denomination, the Americans who have deserted the Catholic Church of their childhood would constitute the third-largest religious group in the country, with 10.1% of the population.

…The Catholic proportion of the US population has remained roughly constant over the past 30 years-- but only because of the influx of Hispanic immigrants. Today 29% of American Catholics are of Hispanic origin. Without them the Catholic representation in America would be declining sharply.

…In the Pew surveys, 31.4% of the respondents said that they had been raised as Catholics. Another 2.6% had entered the Church as converts. But again, 10.1% had left the Catholic faith. Thus for every new convert, the Church is losing roughly four cradle Catholics. For everyone who comes in the doors of the Catholic Church, four people leave. No wonder the churches are empty!

…The most important story is the vast exodus of Catholics leaving the faith. This is the story that I try to illustrate-- using the Boston experience as a microcosm-- in my new book The Faithful Departed: The Collapse of Boston’s Catholic Culture

While Church leaders speak confidently about a “vibrant” Catholic community, the congregations are aging and thinning, the parishes are closing, the Catholic influence on our society is evaporating.

Am I painting an unduly grim picture? I doubt it. The Pew Forum researchers note that in their survey, when respondents identified themselves as a Catholics, they accepted that identification “regardless of their specific beliefs and whether or not they attend Mass regularly.” Since we already know that only a minority of self-described Catholics are regular church-goers, the Pew figures undoubtedly overstate the size of the Catholic population, and understate the severity of the Catholic exodus.

Statistics can be manipulated, but in the short time since the Pew study appeared, I have seen no serious criticism of its methodology. On the contrary, the Religious Landscape Survey appears to be a thoroughly professional study, conducted on an enormous sample group, using the best accepted polling practices.

The numbers do not lie. American Catholicism is facing a crisis. The sooner we recognize that fact, the sooner we can plot our response.

cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=56894

I appreciate Phil’s honesty and assessment. I think it needs to be recognized that prior to Vatican II we had been experiencing a healthy growth in just about every area. We need to take a look in the mirror and ask what we have done that the Church is experiencing a decline like this.

 

[Brennan_Doherty]

America has reason to be anti-Catholic based on opinions I have encountered at this web site. People here have stated that their first loyalty if to the Catholic Church, not to the USA. That’s clearly un-American!

That’s what people were worried about JFK, that he would be controlled by Rome. Many people here are controlled by Rome. That isn’t an American attitude. Rome had nothing at all to do with founding this country. Rome had nothing to do with keeping this country free. Rome has no business being the guiding influence for the direction of the USA. The control of the USA has to remain with the USA, not Rome.

Absolutely my first loyalty is to the Church (and yes, I agree, that is un-American). One of the greatest acts of charity we Catholics can do for our nation is to pray for its conversion to the One True Church.

I agree that Rome had nothing to do with the founding of our nation. If anything, our nation was founded ultimately as a reaction against the Catholic Faith and its claims to authority in the realms of religion and morality. This is a quintessentially Protestant nation.

I am reminded of this from the Encyclical Quas Primas (On The Feast of Christ the King):

1. If We ordain that the whole Catholic world shall revere Christ as King, We shall minister to the need of the present day, and at the same time provide an excellent remedy for the plague which now infects society. We refer to the plague of anti-clericalism, its errors and impious activities. This evil spirit, as you are well aware, Venerable Brethren, has not come into being in one day; it has long lurked beneath the surface. The empire of Christ over all nations was rejected. The right which the Church has from Christ himself, to teach mankind, to make laws, to govern peoples in all that pertains to their eternal salvation, that right was denied. Then gradually the religion of Christ came to be likened to false religions and to be placed ignominiously on the same level with them. It was then put under the power of the state and tolerated more or less at the whim of princes and rulers. Some men went even further, and wished to set up in the place of God’s religion a natural religion consisting in some instinctive affection of the heart. There were even some nations who thought they could dispense with God, and that their religion should consist in impiety and the neglect of God. **The rebellion of individuals and states against the authority of Christ has produced deplorable consequences. **

vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_11121925_quas-primas_en.html

 

[Pious_Mat]

America has reason to be anti-Catholic based on opinions I have encountered at this web site. People here have stated that their first loyalty if to the Catholic Church, not to the USA. That’s clearly un-American!

That’s what people were worried about JFK, that he would be controlled by Rome. Many people here are controlled by Rome. That isn’t an American attitude. Rome had nothing at all to do with founding this country. Rome had nothing to do with keeping this country free. Rome has no business being the guiding influence for the direction of the USA. The control of the USA has to remain with the USA, not Rome.

In every other nation in the world, placing patrotism above religion and personal beliefs (other than Communist countries) is considered backward. I know, I live in Canada. The idea of Rome “controlling” any country is ludicrous, and is a 19th Century paranoia.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, man nor woman…American or Canadian. God doesn’t really care what country you come from.

And no offence to my American friends, but we could also say that Rome has got a lot more people to Heaven than the USA ever will…

Peace be with you,

Mat.

 

[Namesake]

Absolutely my first loyalty is to the Church (and yes, I agree, that is un-American). One of the greatest acts of charity we Catholics can do for our nation is to pray for its conversion to the One True Church.

Muslim extremists say the same thing! I will pray that God will protect the USA from such attacks.

 

[Brennan_Doherty]

Muslim extremists say the same thing! I will pray that God will protect the USA from such attacks.

Do you believe the Catholic Faith is true? If yes, then what is wrong with a nation acknowledging that fact and ordering her laws to what is true and good?

 

[Namesake]

Do you believe the Catholic Faith is true? If yes, then what is wrong with a nation acknowledging that fact and ordering her laws to what is true and good?

No, I do not believe the Catholic faith is true.

What’s wrong with Rome controlling the USA? Nothing more than with Mecca and Medina controlling the USA. Theocracy is just plain scary to people who value the beliefs our country was founded upon.

 

[Brennan_Doherty]

No, I do not believe the Catholic faith is true.

What’s wrong with Rome controlling the USA? Nothing more than with Mecca and Medina controlling the USA. Theocracy is just plain scary to people who value the beliefs our country was founded upon.

Namesake,

Thanks for your honesty. I would also note that when I talk about the Social Reign of Christ the King I am also talking about the Natural Law which is applicable to everyone regardless of their faith or lack thereof. So, murder is wrong, stealing is wrong, etc. And of course I would say abortion is wrong as well.

One cannot, and should not, force anyone to adhere to the Catholic Faith. However, a nation’s laws should adhere to the Natural Law.