Catholicism in decline

[Brennan_Doherty]

If you were in math class and said the decline began in 1966 or 67, you would get the answer wrong. The correct answer would be 1958.

There was a gradual decline from 1958-1966, a sharper decline from 1966-1971, and then a return to another gradual decline from 1972-1984 or so. You could blame the 1966-1971 on Vatican II or you could blame it on massive social upheaval (think '68 Democratic convention, woodstock, free love, marijuana, etc.) - there was juuuuust a bit of rebelliousness going on with the millions of baby boomers ages 16-30.

My main point is that once the decline starts in 1966 until about 1975 there really is no uptick or 4 year level pattern as happens after 1958. 1958 could be a high water mark for Mass attendance because this was after WWII when men were returning and starting families and thus perhaps naturally Mass attendance would reach a high water mark, especially after a world war. And thus the decline could also be a leveling off to more normal levels with the 4 year level period from 1961-1965 indicative of this. Plus the fact that there was no seismic event in the Church (or the world) in 1958 as there was in 1966 with the end of VII and the beginning of its implementation.

I’m not blaming everything on VII and its implementation, however, the drop that begins in 1966 and continues steady for at least 10 years can’t just be a coincidence (at least in my mind).

Here is the graph again:

cara.georgetown.edu/AttendPR.pdf

 

[Namesake]

Your little comparison would work if Rome (Catholicism) and Medina/Mecca (Islam) were morally equivalent, which they are not.

Just saying that doesn’t compel. Prove it.

 

[hasikelee]

“Evangelical Christianity has become the largest religious tradition in this country, supplanting Roman Catholicism, which is slowly bleeding members, according to a survey released yesterday by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life.”

Although one in three Americans are raised Roman Catholic, only one in four adults describe themselves as such, despite the huge numbers of immigrants swelling American churches, researchers said.

“Immigration is what is keeping them afloat,” said John Green, a Pew senior fellow. “If everyone who was raised Catholic stayed Catholic, it’d be a third of the country.”
Those who leave Catholicism mostly either drop out of church entirely or join Pentecostal or evangelical Protestant churches, Pew Forum director Luis Lugo said. One out of every 10 evangelicals is a former Catholic, he said, with Hispanic Catholics leaving at higher rates; 20 percent of them end up in evangelical or Pentecostal churches.

washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080226/NATION/902727579/1001

Let’s see…what historically happens when this happens…

 

[Jonathon]

I can understand this happening. The Priest scandals in the U.S. has put the Church under a lot of scrutiny. Also I know from many of people that the Church’s “dated stances” on certain issues just drive people away. They may believe EVERYTHING the Church teaches, but just don’t to be labeled as a Catholic because of those stances.

 

[lovesMary]

My parish does seem to be shrinking. Catholic religious education in my parish has declined over the years. The congregants appear more and more aged and there are way more funerals than baptisms and first holy communions. It’s a very sad sight.

Confession is poorly attended by only a few. There are more and more empty pews all the time. It’s disheartening. Families are small; either folks are great at using family planning or else they are using birth control. We are one of the few families with more than 2 or 3 children.

 

[lak611]

My parish does seem to be shrinking. Catholic religious education in my parish has declined over the years. The congregants appear more and more aged and there are way more funerals than baptisms and first holy communions. It’s a very sad sight.

Confession is poorly attended by only a few. There are more and more empty pews all the time. It’s disheartening. Families are small; either folks are great at using family planning or else they are using birth control. We are one of the few families with more than 2 or 3 children.

What are the demographics of your neighbourhood? Where I live, the population has decreased due to the poor economy. There are fewer people, be they Catholic, Protestant, or other. My parish is smaller, but the Methodist and Lutheran churches in my neighbourhood have lost even more members. There are no “mega-churches” or large non-denominational churches in my neighbourhood. The population, Catholic and non-Catholic, is just declining in general.

 

[lovesMary]

What are the demographics of your neighbourhood? Where I live, the population has decreased due to the poor economy. There are fewer people, be they Catholic, Protestant, or other. My parish is smaller, but the Methodist and Lutheran churches in my neighbourhood have lost even more members. There are no “mega-churches” or large non-denominational churches in my neighbourhood. The population, Catholic and non-Catholic, is just declining in general.

I live in an mostly all white area about 100 miles from a major metropolitan area, in a rural county with a growing population.

 

[kell0618]

I shared my raw and honest thoughts on the topic in my latest blog entry.

This is a much more complex situation than the study makes it appear.

Dominus vobiscum.

 

[Chancellare]

I’ll admit that the lawsuits and the scandals were a mitigating factor in my family’s conversion to Orthodoxy…only to find out that the OCA has its own problems as far as that goes, and between that and other issues it wasn’t worth being out of communion with our families and with Rome. So we came back to the Catholic Church.

Scandals, lawsuits, even persecution; - these are the same things people experienced when a lot of Jesus’ disciples left during his time. At that time people were ‘scandalized’ with whatever teachings or activities that rubbed people’s sensibilities during their time.
But as the loyal disciples also said: “To whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life!”.
If we are in the Church that was founded by the one who holds the Eternal Words, that “even the gates of hell shall not prevail”, what scandal can pluck us out of it?

 

[TNT]

How sad.

I think this has happened because Catholicism is a faith that requires alot out of its adherents. For many people, it’s so much easier just to go to another church (or none at all) so that they can do what they want, without recourse to any set rules or doctrine.

…
S.

If that were true, the Mormon church would be in massive hemorage.

 

[TNT]

If you were in math class and said the decline began in 1966 or 67, you would get the answer wrong. The correct answer would be 1958.

There was a gradual decline from 1958-1966, a sharper decline from 1966-1971, and then a return to another gradual decline from 1972-1984 or so. You could blame the 1966-1971 on Vatican II or you could blame it on massive social upheaval (think '68 Democratic convention, woodstock, free love, marijuana, etc.) - there was juuuuust a bit of rebelliousness going on with the millions of baby boomers ages 16-30.

So, are you saying the correct answer was the at the election of John 23?
Or was it at the death of Pius 12?

 

[Sure]

So, are you saying the correct answer was the at the election of John 23?
Or was it at the death of Pius 12?

Neither.

 

[catharina]

Despite the OP’s reference, it’s been my understanding for decades that the Church is growing around the world, if not here in the States. Also the change in Mass related to the vernacular might have been made to facilitate the growth of the Church in the world’s many Communist nations of that era. For the Chinese at one extreme and the Soviet Union at the other, learning to celebrate (and participate in) the Mass in Latin might have added to their daily burdens.

 

[JRKH]

Cathocism is not in decline.
Regardless of the numbers of “Catholics”,
Catholicism is the same.

Just thought I’d throw that in.

Peace
James

 

[TNT]

Neither.

So it correlates to …nothing in the catholic church??

 

[Agnes_Ainsworth]

The decline had a lot to do with the Encyclical, Humanae Vitae in 1968, possibly the most prophetic teaching in the history of the Church. Pope Paul VI has been vindicated by the changed sexual mores in Western Society which are destroying it. Aptly summed up by the Anglican Archbishop Rowan Williams: "NOW that artificial birth control has brought about the acceptance of sexual pleasure as an end in itself, can we deny it to homosexuals? The widespread rejection of Humanae Vitae brought about the notion that; “if the Church is wrong about birth control, it may be wrong about other doctrines”. Thus Catholics came to accept the heresy of Sola Scriptura bringing as wide a spectrum of beliefs (or unbeliefs) as exist across the thousands of other Christian denominations, “pick and choose” Christianity. Parallel with this came the belief in the other heresy, Sola Fide where one is saved by “Faith Alone” regardless of works, good or bad. I’m not saying that they understood the practices in this way, but that is effectively what has come about. Read about the heresy of antinomianism to understand the confusion caused by Sola Fide.

The great Apostasy of the End Times, was not only prophesied in the Bible but by many saints and visionaries throughout the history of the Church including Pope Leo XIII at the end of the nineteenth century in a vision. We are told that there will be a faithful remnant (who will be persecuted for their faith. There are alive today many mystics telling us we can save souls by the five pebbles of Goliath (Our Lady of Medjugorje): Prayer, Fasting, the Bible, Holy Mass and monthly Confession. Given the evil days we live in, wouldn’t God Our Merciful Lord, intervene to warn us of the consequences of turning our backs on Him? Read 2 Timothy chapters 3 and 4 and take heart, especially I pray that “Namesake” is able to identify with Alexander, the coppersmith.

 

[Brennan_Doherty]

The decline had a lot to do with the Encyclical, Humanae Vitae in 1968, possibly the most prophetic teaching in the history of the Church. Pope Paul VI has been vindicated by the changed sexual mores in Western Society which are destroying it. Aptly summed up by the Anglican Archbishop Rowan Williams: "NOW that artificial birth control has brought about the acceptance of sexual pleasure as an end in itself, can we deny it to homosexuals? The widespread rejection of Humanae Vitae brought about the notion that; “if the Church is wrong about birth control, it may be wrong about other doctrines”. Thus Catholics came to accept the heresy of Sola Scriptura bringing as wide a spectrum of beliefs (or unbeliefs) as exist across the thousands of other Christian denominations, “pick and choose” Christianity. Parallel with this came the belief in the other heresy, Sola Fide where one is saved by “Faith Alone” regardless of works, good or bad. I’m not saying that they understood the practices in this way, but that is effectively what has come about. Read about the heresy of antinomianism to understand the confusion caused by Sola Fide.

The great Apostasy of the End Times, was not only prophesied in the Bible but by many saints and visionaries throughout the history of the Church including Pope Leo XIII at the end of the nineteenth century in a vision. We are told that there will be a faithful remnant (who will be persecuted for their faith. There are alive today many mystics telling us we can save souls by the five pebbles of Goliath (Our Lady of Medjugorje): Prayer, Fasting, the Bible, Holy Mass and monthly Confession. Given the evil days we live in, wouldn’t God Our Merciful Lord, intervene to warn us of the consequences of turning our backs on Him? Read 2 Timothy chapters 3 and 4 and take heart, especially I pray that “Namesake” is able to identify with Alexander, the coppersmith.

I am sure that a number of Catholics were expecting a change in the Church’s teaching on artificial contraception. However, for instance, the primary drop in Mass attendance started in 1966 which was two years before the promulgation of Humanae Vitae. And there were other drops in things like vocations which cannot really be explained by Humanae Vitae (why would a celibate Priest be overly concerned if artificial contraception is not allowed). Plus, prior to Vatican II, the Church was doing well in just about every area we have statistics for and artificial contraception was banned then, HV was a reaffirmation of the Church’s teaching, although I’m sure a number of Catholics were hoping for a change.

 

[Agnes_Ainsworth]

I am sure that a number of Catholics were expecting a change in the Church’s teaching on artificial contraception. However, for instance, the primary drop in Mass attendance started in 1966 which was two years before the promulgation of Humanae Vitae. And there were other drops in things like vocations which cannot really be explained by Humanae Vitae (why would a celibate Priest be overly concerned if artificial contraception is not allowed). Plus, prior to Vatican II, the Church was doing well in just about every area we have statistics for and artificial contraception was banned then, HV was a reaffirmation of the Church’s teaching, although I’m sure a number of Catholics were hoping for a change.

The contraceptive pill was being widely marketed in 1966. I remember very clearly as a Pharmacist newly married to a GP and already many Catholics were using it. Many celibate priests WERE overly concerned because they couldn’t face up to the outraged laity and in fact there was a mass exodus of priests as a result. Perhaps Brennan Doherty is not old enough to remember.

 

[RWMorris]

My parish does seem to be shrinking. Catholic religious education in my parish has declined over the years. The congregants appear more and more aged and there are way more funerals than baptisms and first holy communions. It’s a very sad sight.

Confession is poorly attended by only a few. There are more and more empty pews all the time. It’s disheartening. Families are small; either folks are great at using family planning or else they are using birth control. We are one of the few families with more than 2 or 3 children.

I live in a very Protestant area of the country and our small parish seems to be growing. There is quite a mix of people every Saturday and Sunday, and several large families with 4 + kids and many with 2, 3 or 4. RCIA usually has about a dozen attendees each year. There are baptisms several times a year.

I love Mass and attend at least once a week. One thing does bother me though, maybe its a leftover from my protestant roots. Catholics don’t seem to have a hunger for knowledge of scripture the way many protestants do. But I greatly respect how Catholics try to live according to Church teachings, traditions, and the Word of God. It may not seem that way to many cradle Catholics, but believe me, I’ve seen protestantism up close. They don’t do any better at Christian living than Catholics.

 

[RWMorris]

America has reason to be anti-Catholic based on opinions I have encountered at this web site. People here have stated that their first loyalty if to the Catholic Church, not to the USA. That’s clearly un-American!

That’s what people were worried about JFK, that he would be controlled by Rome. Many people here are controlled by Rome. That isn’t an American attitude. Rome had nothing at all to do with founding this country. Rome had nothing to do with keeping this country free. Rome has no business being the guiding influence for the direction of the USA. The control of the USA has to remain with the USA, not Rome.

There is no one that loves America more than me. I believe America was blessed by God from the very beginning. But there were Catholics here from the very beginning, and Catholics fought and died in the revolutionary war for the cause of America. George Washington thanked Catholics for their support in his Letter to Roman Catholics. I spent 25 years in service to the US in the military. I have not detected the slightest attempt by Rome to control the US. Rome has stated her opinions about things that all countries have done, including the US. Sometimes I don’t agree with Rome in her diplomatic efforts. But I always agree with Rome on issues of faith and morals. How is that detrimental to America? Does freedom of religion only apply to protestants?