Catholicism in decline

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Agnes_Ainsworth said:
The contraceptive pill was being widely marketed in 1966. I remember very clearly as a Pharmacist newly married to a GP and already many Catholics were using it. Many celibate priests WERE overly concerned because they couldn’t face up to the outraged laity and in fact there was a mass exodus of priests as a result. Perhaps Brennan Doherty is not old enough to remember.
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No, I am not old enough to have been there. I was addressing the issue of Humanae Vitae being issued in 1968. And 1966 is when Vatican II started being implemented, which hit the Church with a lot more force in all areas than the pill becoming available (and there are people on this forum who were old enough to remember the changes). I also find it interesting that the article in my signature line, “The Case for the Latin Mass”, was written in 1966.

Seriously, you think there was a mass exodus of Priests because they got scared of the laity?!

I do think the Vatican made a blunder when one Bishop (I think from Washington) disciplined some priests for opposing Humanae Vitae when it came out. And Rome told him to remove the disciplinary action, in essence sending the message that if you discipline your priests over this, Rome is not going to back you up. Not a good message to be sending at all.
 
Namesake said:
America has reason to be anti-Catholic based on opinions I have encountered at this web site. People here have stated that their first loyalty if to the Catholic Church, not to the USA. That’s clearly un-American!

That’s what people were worried about JFK, that he would be controlled by Rome. Many people here are controlled by Rome. That isn’t an American attitude. Rome had nothing at all to do with founding this country. Rome had nothing to do with keeping this country free. Rome has no business being the guiding influence for the direction of the USA. The control of the USA has to remain with the USA, not Rome.
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Your post is so off-center. I see you call yourself “Protestant” and I don’t know what that means to you - but I do know that most Protesants believe in God and accept Jesus Christ as their Saviour LONG BEFORE they ever mention nationalisim. I guess you must be a different sort of Protestant: loyalty to country first, and later, loyalty to God. Poor you.
 
catharina said:
Your post is so off-center. I see you call yourself “Protestant” and I don’t know what that means to you - but I do know that most Protesants believe in God and accept Jesus Christ as their Saviour LONG BEFORE they ever mention nationalisim. I guess you must be a different sort of Protestant: loyalty to country first, and later, loyalty to God. Poor you.
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I don’t think you’ll hear back from him.
He stopped in this thread, dropped his garbage and took off.
I do beleive he is about on other threads, but doesn’t seem to have the courage to respond to us.

Peace
James
 
JRKH said:
I don’t think you’ll hear back from him.
He stopped in this thread, dropped his garbage and took off.
I do beleive he is about on other threads, but doesn’t seem to have the courage to respond to us.

Peace
James
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Oh. Thank you, James.
 
“According to the Gallup poll, the decline in attendance at Mass started in about 1957-1958 which was well before Vatican 2.”

In some countries this is true. In others the decline didn’t start until Vatican II was well underway. IMO, if Vatican II weren’t the culprit, then maybe the forces of having separate churches within the Catholic Church was. This might have been what led to what we have now all-vernacular liturgy in all countries.
 
Having read all of the posts here, I wonder how much more of a decline in Church attendance there would have been if the Church removed the Saturday-Sunday obligation to attend Mass.

If the removal of the non-Lenten obligation to abstain from meat is any indication, I would say most churches would be closing their doors permanently.
 
ASimpleSinner said:
I mostly agree with you. The only thing I would change is I do think there is a small but effective action we can take. Making greater efforts to really have Catholic education and encouraging our priests to use their ten min of sermon time to cover a basic of the faith once a week could have a tremendous effect if even 15% of Catholic parishes nationwide (not already doing so) did so.

The number of people who fall through the cracks and don’t really understand or can’t explain the faith are “ripe for the pickens” when it comes to either just dropping out of practicing any faith, or being talked into joinging an Evangelical community which takes advantage of the Catholic being mostly ignorant about a lot of their Catholic faith, but in fact actually have enough basic formation (believe in God, knows Bible is God’s word, believes in Jesus) to be “sold” by folks who come with teachings that sound cogent and ask tough questions that these poorly formed Catholics can’t answer, and then assume that all Catholics don’t have the answers!

Everytime some hapless co-worker wants to harp on me for being “all Catholic” (and I don’t talk much about it at work, they only know I take Sunday mornings off for church)… Well everytime they say something pedantic like “Yea I was raised all Catholic in a real Catholic family, and I don’t believe in any of that %#%#!!”…

I ask: “You were raised ‘real catholic’ eh?”

Them: “Yea.”

ME: “Can you name the sacraments of initiation? The three levels of holy orders?”

NO, none of them ever can. And it never occurs to them that going to Mass every sunday may still have left them not knowing much about their faith.
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I think you’re right. I do wish more homilies taught something about Catholicism. Just a little bit of catechesis. I rarely hear homilies like that. (Well, with two very young children, I rarely hear the homily at all. ;))

And, yeah… I don’t know HOW many times I’ve heard, “I went to twelve years of Catholic school…” just before some really crazy stupid thing that is not at all Catholic doctrine. It honestly makes me glad I grew up Protestant.
 
JRKH said:
I don’t think you’ll hear back from him.
He stopped in this thread, dropped his garbage and took off.
I do beleive he is about on other threads, but doesn’t seem to have the courage to respond to us.

Peace
James
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I really don’t see how your post was necessary, we should set a better example for questioning or doubting people who visit this site, rather than insulting. Just my 2 cents. It’s better to turn the other cheek. A soft answer is always best.
 
lovesMary said:
I really don’t see how your post was necessary, we should set a better example for questioning or doubting people who visit this site, rather than insulting. Just my 2 cents. It’s better to turn the other cheek. A soft answer is always best.
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You are right. Mea Culpa…
It just burns me sometimes when people do this. Particularly “so called” Americans who are so gung-ho about protecting America that they would destroy her in the process.

Sorry, I’m doing it again…

Mea Maxima Culpa:gopray:
James
 
TNT said:
So it correlates to …nothing in the catholic church??
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It is a possibility. After all, religion as a whole is on decline and secularization is on the increase. There are many cultural aspects in the sixties that impacted all of society: the sexual revolution, Vietnam, drug use, civil rights.
 
Namesake said:
Muslim extremists say the same thing! I will pray that God will protect the USA from such attacks.
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If you can not understand the difference, perhaps you will some day, namely, whether you are willing to kill others for disagreeing with you.
 
JRKH said:
You are right. Mea Culpa…
It just burns me sometimes when people do this. Particularly “so called” Americans who are so gung-ho about protecting America that they would destroy her in the process.

Sorry, I’m doing it again…

Mea Maxima Culpa:gopray:
James
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Other people ARE frustrating at times, I agree!
 
catherineajt said:
My thoughts…

Those who would abandon the True Church so easily would possibly only damage the true faith from within. We can pray that those who leave the Faith will realize they’re trading substance for shadow, and return to the Church. I have a brother in law who left the Church because he was annoyed that he couldn’t get married in it without annulling his first (20+ year) marriage. He chose gratification over faith. He was able to get what he wanted by going to the Protestant church. Like it or not, we live in a consumerist society and some people just look to a faith for what they can get out of it–not what they can add to it.

Even if only a handful of devout Catholics remained in the US, there would still be a Catholic Church. Being a Catholic, for me, is not about belonging to the biggest church in the world–it’s about the fullness of faith and worship that I find there.
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Pope Benedict has said, it would be better for the Church to be smaller but more faithful, or something to that effect.
 
Namesake said:
America has reason to be anti-Catholic based on opinions I have encountered at this web site. People here have stated that their first loyalty if to the Catholic Church, not to the USA. That’s clearly un-American!

That’s what people were worried about JFK, that he would be controlled by Rome. Many people here are controlled by Rome. That isn’t an American attitude. Rome had nothing at all to do with founding this country. Rome had nothing to do with keeping this country free. Rome has no business being the guiding influence for the direction of the USA. The control of the USA has to remain with the USA, not Rome.
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Well I am an American citizen, but I am first and always a Christian [Catholic]. There is no excuse for the anti-catholic bigotry in this country and this anti-catholicism pre-dates the “United States of America” … so your rant about Rome controlling the goood of USofA just does not wash …

The anti-catholic zeal came to the North Amercian continent with the puritans who sought religious tolerance fro themselves but not for the “Papists”

The celebration of Mass was illegal in all but one or two of the original thirteen colonies *. “Christmas” was not celebrated because it was a Papist celebration … Even though religious toleration was written into the constitution the advent of that toleration has been slow and vestiges of anti-catholicism remains alive and well today. 😦

And all Christians should be just that first and always - even as they are American, Canadian etc… who / what is of primary importance? Ones country of origin / citizenship or the Living God - Jesus the Christ ? I pick Jesus, what about you?

And yet the Church will survive … much to the chagrin of those who clamor and celebrate its supposed demise … 👍*
 
I am terribly sorry, but if being a true Catholic is not being a true American, Then I AM A TRUE CATHOLIC. America is my country but she is leaving God out, taking Him out of schools, courts, etc.
She was supposedly founded by God fearing people,protestants mainly and masons. I have to say this country is certainly not “Keeping the faith”. So if I have to be American or Catholic…I choose Catholic.
 
People who leave the Church, leave for convenience. They really don’t know truely what Catholicism is all about. They never took the time to know their religion. They went through the motions.They really don’t know what the Mass is all about. They leave for religions that are covenient for their wants and lifestyles. It is a "feel good " society. I have been a Catholic all my life. Most recently I am discovering things about my religion that I didn’t take the time to know before. It is wonderful. So rich in history and tradition. So meaningful! A true Church.
 
turtleoompa said:
People who leave the Church, leave for convenience. They really don’t know truely what Catholicism is all about. They never took the time to know their religion. They went through the motions.They really don’t know what the Mass is all about. They leave for religions that are covenient for their wants and lifestyles. It is a "feel good " society. I have been a Catholic all my life. Most recently I am discovering things about my religion that I didn’t take the time to know before. It is wonderful. So rich in history and tradition. So meaningful! A true Church.
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Lots of assumptions here. I don’t think you can put everyone who leaves the Church in one basket, people might have a variety of reasons. I know people who have been badly hurt by representatives of the Church in various ways, for example, and it disillusioned them. That’s just one example.
 
lovesMary said:
Lots of assumptions here. I don’t think you can put everyone who leaves the Church in one basket, people might have a variety of reasons. I know people who have been badly hurt by representatives of the Church in various ways, for example, and it disillusioned them. That’s just one example.
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The only downside to Turtleoompa’s post was the sweeping generalization. But it is a fact that majority of those who leave the Church barely understood its core teachings. So much so that leaving was just a further step.
 
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