Catholicism in decline

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MrS said:
Originally Posted by Chancellare forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
But it is a fact that majority of those who leave the Church barely understood its core teachings

Common Sense

I like the way Jeff Cavins put it…" The only reason one leaves the Catholic Church, is because they don’t know or understand what they are leaving."
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That puts Jeff Cavins in a camp that contradicts nearly all Church Teaching on the subject. Still, he’s a new Catholic and almost certainly someone will correct him in his misunderstanding. You seem to be agreeing with him; why that is, I can’t imagine.
 
I agree, lack of understanding is probably at the root of most defections from the Church.
 
catharina said:
That puts Jeff Cavins in a camp that contradicts nearly all Church Teaching on the subject. Still, he’s a new Catholic and almost certainly someone will correct him in his misunderstanding. You seem to be agreeing with him; why that is, I can’t imagine.
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Jeff Cavins said…" The only reason one leaves the Catholic Church, is because they don’t know or understand what they are leaving."

How does the above statement contradict Church Teaching???
What Church Teaching? Please enlighten me.
 
stmaria said:
Jeff Cavins said…" The only reason one leaves the Catholic Church, is because they don’t know or understand what they are leaving."

How does the above statement contradict Church Teaching???
What Church Teaching? Please enlighten me.
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maria, I’ve no idea what’s currently troubling you. perhaps this will help.

from the Catechism:

"2093 Faith in God’s love encompasses the call and the obligation to respond with sincere love to divine charity. the first commandment enjoins us to love God above everything and all creatures for him and because of him.12

2094 One can sin against God’s love in various ways:
  • indifference neglects or refuses to reflect on divine charity; it fails to consider its prevenient goodness and denies its power.
  • ingratitude fails or refuses to acknowledge divine charity and to return him love for love.
  • lukewarmness is hesitation or negligence in responding to divine love; it can imply refusal to give oneself over to the prompting of charity.
  • acedia or spiritual sloth goes so far as to refuse the joy that comes from God and to be repelled by divine goodness.
  • hatred of God comes from pride. It is contrary to love of God, whose goodness it denies, and whom it presumes to curse as the one who forbids sins and inflicts punishments."
 
stmaria said:
Jeff Cavins said…" The only reason one leaves the Catholic Church, is because they don’t know or understand what they are leaving."

How does the above statement contradict Church Teaching???
What Church Teaching? Please enlighten me.
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stmaria, you will probably not get an answer. catharina will not understand until she accepts that maybe others know things she does not…

By the way, Jeff Cavins was born a Catholic, left, and returned. I would think his statement also applies to himself.

Maybe catharina will return too.

.
 
MrS said:
stmaria, you will probably not get an answer. catharina will not understand until she accepts that maybe others know things she does not…

By the way, Jeff Cavins was born a Catholic, left, and returned. I would think his statement also applies to himself.

Maybe catharina will return too.

.
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Mr. S. Your lack of charity is noteworthy and extreme. Now you have lied. (One thing leads to another.) You have publicly accused me of abandoning my faith, of leaving the Church.

I offer this opportunity for you, in all humility, to retract your lie and apologize to me.
 
catharina said:
Mr. S. Your lack of charity is noteworthy and extreme. Now you have lied. (One thing leads to another.) You have publicly accused me of abandoning my faith, of leaving the Church.

I offer this opportunity for you, in all humility, to retract your lie and apologize to me.
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In the words of Pope Benedict XVI “I apologize if you misunderstood what I said”

and you have… again and again.

IMO, you can be any kind of Catholic you choose to be. And in my opinion, you do.

Only you know if you have “abondoned your faith”.

Only you know if you really understand it.

If you or another says “no” to both , that would be sad.

But quite frankly, it is you who owes Jeff Cavins an apology for your erroneous statements (and lack of charity).

.
 
MrS said:
stmaria, you will probably not get an answer. catharina will not understand until she accepts that maybe others know things she does not…

By the way, Jeff Cavins was born a Catholic, left, and returned. I would think his statement also applies to himself.

Maybe catharina will return too.

.
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Again, Mr. S, you have accused me of abandoning the Faith.

That is a LIE.

That Jeff C. has found a way to excuse his own abandonment speaks only of his limited undesrtanding of such a grave error.

Do Not accuse me of his error. Retract your statement.
 
catharina said:
Again, Mr. S, you have accused me of abandoning the Faith.

That is a LIE.

That Jeff C. has found a way to excuse his own abandonment speaks only of his limited undesrtanding of such a grave error.

Do Not accuse me of his error. Retract your statement.
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No I didn’t. You have only supported your own beliefs here at CAF, which is your privilege as a member. You say you are Catholic. We all understand that not all Catholics have the same beliefs.

I happen to disagree with some of your own beliefs (as you apparently do with most of the posters here, and with Jeff Cavins too).

I think perhaps that some day you will return …

It would be nice if you reconsidered what you said about Jeff Cavins… or at least let his Bishop and even Mother Angelica know of his “problem”.
 
now.

back to the OP… as we see first hand why Catholicism in not so much in decline (you can not hurt Truth), but the human, fallible members in the Church are often at odds.

.
 
MrS said:
stmaria, you will probably not get an answer. catharina will not understand until she accepts that maybe others know things she does not…

By the way, Jeff Cavins was born a Catholic, left, and returned. I would think his statement also applies to himself.

Maybe catharina will return too.

.
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Again, Mr S, you can scramble but you cannot deny that the above is YOUR post.

You can run but you can’t hide.

You have accused me of leaving the Church.

That accusation is a lie.

RETRACT IT.
 
MrS said:
now.

back to the OP… as we see first hand why Catholicism in not so much in decline (you can not hurt Truth), but the human, fallible members in the Church are often at odds.

.
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Mr S, before you attempt to move along:

RETRACT YOUR LIE.
 
Goodness gracious, let’s not engage in this uncharitable bickering. A soft answer turns away wrath!
 
lovesMary said:
Goodness gracious, let’s not engage in this uncharitable bickering. A soft answer turns away wrath!
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… and LM, if anyone stated to the forum that you had abandoned the faith, then I hope you would insist he retract such a lie.

To let it stand bespeaks agreement.
 
catharina said:
… and LM, if anyone stated to the forum that you had abandoned the faith, then I hope you would insist he retract such a lie.

To let it stand bespeaks agreement.
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I don’t think anyone could accuse you of letting it stand.

The statement was made, and you have set the record straight.
Whether or not you receive an acceptable apology will not affect your standing with God. Your nursing of this anger is not good for your soul.

Please let the matter drop.

Peace
James
 
catharina said:
… and LM, if anyone stated to the forum that you had abandoned the faith, then I hope you would insist he retract such a lie.

To let it stand bespeaks agreement.
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You can always turn the other cheek and shake the dust from your sandles.

The only thing we can control is our own reactions. I ask you, what is it to you if an anonymous person here misinterprets or questions your own relationship with God?
 
catharina said:
Again, Mr S, you can scramble but you cannot deny that the above is YOUR post.

You can run but you can’t hide.

You have accused me of leaving the Church.

That accusation is a lie.

RETRACT IT.
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MrS answered that it is a misunderstanding in post 88. It is uncharitable to continue to expound on it —as if he had not already clarified – as misunderstanding.
 
How good it is if walkinghome and lovesmary and jrkh can see that MrS misspoke. I need no apology since I’m bound to forgive him, with or without one. However, when one LIES on a Catholic site about the faith of another, it’s ordinary for the liar to retract the lie. If he needs to pretend that he did not lie and you can support that notion, it’s no matter of conscience for me.

Yes, peace to all.
 
Brother_John said:
And this assertion is based on ??? 🤷
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I love all the amateur sociologists here. They make the ‘man in the street’ judgement, but what scientific evidence do they have.

Non Catholic sects have experienced the same problem, yet their doctrines are different from ours.

As for us:
Might as well say, people are lazier than they used to; or, the NFL games are on Sunday, and so I don’t want to go to church should I miss them; or, the people there are too judgemental; or I have to give up my sinful way of life to feel comfortable there; or my mother died, and I prayed for her recovery, but she died; or, they are always preaching about money; or I want to divorce my wife, and the church won’t allow that; or, we practice birth control and the church is against that; or’ or…and on it can go.

I wonder how the amateur sociologists know any of the reasons why people stop going to church.

prayers and charity for all who post here,

peace
 
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