What makes you think Catharina has left? Has she said that? Or is that your judgement?stmaria, you will probably not get an answer. catharina will not understand until she accepts that maybe others know things she does not…
By the way, Jeff Cavins was born a Catholic, left, and returned. I would think his statement also applies to himself.
Maybe catharina will return too.
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So you are pulling the Hillary Clinton denial: He is not a Moslem, as far as I know…, leaving the door open just in case this individual has left the faith?In the words of Pope Benedict XVI “I apologize if you misunderstood what I said”
and you have… again and again.
IMO, you can be any kind of Catholic you choose to be. And in my opinion, you do.
Only you know if you have “abondoned your faith”.
Only you know if you really understand it.
If you or another says “no” to both , that would be sad.
But quite frankly, it is you who owes Jeff Cavins an apology for your erroneous statements (and lack of charity).
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That may be fine, but announcing it takes it out of the realm of charity, also to the realm of slander.You can always turn the other cheek and shake the dust from your sandles.
The only thing we can control is our own reactions. I ask you, what is it to you if an anonymous person here misinterprets or questions your own relationship with God?
Words against the victim, but none for the perpetrator???I don’t think anyone could accuse you of letting it stand.
The statement was made, and you have set the record straight.
Whether or not you receive an acceptable apology will not affect your standing with God. Your nursing of this anger is not good for your soul.
Please let the matter drop.
Peace
James
Originally Posted by stmaria
Jeff Cavins said…" The only reason one leaves the Catholic Church, is because they don’t know or understand what they are leaving."
How does the above statement contradict Church Teaching???
What Church Teaching? Please enlighten me.
I don’t see what those quotes from the catechism have to do with Jeff Cavins statement, " The only reason one leaves the Catholic Church, is because they don’t know or understand what they are leaving."maria, I’ve no idea what’s currently troubling you. perhaps this will help.
from the Catechism:
"2093 Faith in God’s love encompasses the call and the obligation to respond with sincere love to divine charity. the first commandment enjoins us to love God above everything and all creatures for him and because of him.12
2094 One can sin against God’s love in various ways:
- indifference neglects or refuses to reflect on divine charity; it fails to consider its prevenient goodness and denies its power.
- ingratitude fails or refuses to acknowledge divine charity and to return him love for love.
- lukewarmness is hesitation or negligence in responding to divine love; it can imply refusal to give oneself over to the prompting of charity.
- acedia or spiritual sloth goes so far as to refuse the joy that comes from God and to be repelled by divine goodness.
- hatred of God comes from pride. It is contrary to love of God, whose goodness it denies, and whom it presumes to curse as the one who forbids sins and inflicts punishments."
MARIA, YOUR QUOTES ARE PERFECT AND SUPPORT MINE.I don’t see what those quotes from the catechism have to do with Jeff Cavins statement, " The only reason one leaves the Catholic Church, is because they don’t know or understand what they are leaving."
Then you said that his statement contradicts Church teaching? How does it contradict? What teaching.? Isn’t it a true statement? The only reason one leaves the Church established by Jesus Christ is because** they don’t know or understand **that they are leaving the one true Church established by Jesus Christ. Why would they put their soul at risk?
Baltimore Catechism cin.org/users/james/ebooks/master/baltimore/bcreed09.htm
A." All are bound to belong to the Church, and **he who knows the Church to be the true Church **and remains out of it, cannot be saved.
- Q. Are all bound to belong to the Church?
Anyone who knows the Catholic religion to be the true religion and will not embrace it cannot enter into Heaven. If one not a Catholic doubts whether the church to which he belongs is the true Church, he must settle his doubt, seek the true Church, and enter it; for if he continues to live in doubt, he becomes like the one who knows the true Church and is deterred by worldly considerations from entering it. "
Catechism
Outside the Church there is no salvation"
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who,** knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it**."
Empires fad and pass away, but the Church remains. I am loyal to God and to the Holy See from which flows the Truth before I am loyal to anything else. I would give up my life for the Vatican before I give up my life for my country. You can call me un-american if you wish, but I pledge alliegence to the Vatican flag, not the American one.America has reason to be anti-Catholic based on opinions I have encountered at this web site. People here have stated that their first loyalty if to the Catholic Church, not to the USA. That’s clearly un-American!
Grace and Peace,Code:Originally Posted by **Namesake** [forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=3366566#post3366566) America has reason to be anti-Catholic based on opinions I have encountered at this web site. People here have stated that their first loyalty if to the Catholic Church, not to the USA. That's clearly un-American!
=catharina;3394697]MARIA, YOUR QUOTES ARE PERFECT AND SUPPORT MINE.
JEFF C SAID: “The only reason one leaves the Catholic Church, is because they don’t know or understand what they are leaving.”
In saying that, he denies the reality of knowledge and sin; your quotes describe knowledge in leaving and the resultant sin (its punishment: loss of salvation). The quotes I gave to you describe the sort of habits/actions that might lead someone to such a sin, to a turning away from God, from faith, from the Church.
I don’t want to drag this on so I will end by saying that I think you are reading way too much into his statement. I don’t see how you can come to the conclusion that his statement indicates that he is" denying the reality and knowledge of sin " and therefore he is contradicting Church teaching. His statement says no such thing. His statement means exactly what it says and nothing more.Jeff C’s statement indicates that such a sin can’t exist. He’s wrong in saying that. He is contradicting Church Teaching.
Then I’ll add this. I hope he’s not teaching such thinking.I don’t want to drag this on so I will end by saying that I think you are reading way too much into his statement. I don’t see how you can come to the conclusion that his statement indicates that he is" denying the reality and knowledge of sin " and therefore he is contradicting Church teaching. His statement says no such thing. His statement means exactly what it says and nothing more.
“The only reason one leaves the Catholic Church, is because they don’t know or understand what they are leaving.”
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