Catholicism in Old Testament?

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I’ve gotten into a debate of sorts with a friend of mine over whether or not there are Catholics in the Old Testament. I maintain that there are no Catholic practitioners in the Old Testament given the following of Jesus Christ and Christianity, which couldn’t exactly crop up before The Christ was born. Jesus Christ was one of the big cruxes in the New Testament and, if I can remember off the top of my head, never in the Old Testament (although I could be wrong on this, I don’t have anything right on hand to look this up to be sure at the moment). However he states this is false, as the entire Bible is Catholic text.

I am confused, I swear I am right as I don’t recollect anything akin to Catholicism being mentioned in the Old Testament, I gave one reason above but also that it is the the old covenant before Christianity came to be. It would not make sense for something that technically has not come to pass yet to be in texts pertaining to its preceding roots. However he is an intelligent person and perhaps I have missed or forgotten something that he remembers readily. Can anyone clarify this for me, please? I also apologize if this is in the wrong section, I was confused as to where this would be most appropriate.
 
Well, everyone in heaven is Catholic, so technically there are people in the Old Testament who are Catholic. But on earth they were almost all Jewish. But you are wrong about Jesus never being in the Old Testament - Jesus is God (2nd Person in the Trinity), and God is in the Old Testament. he is correct by stating the entire bible is Catholic text, as the Catholic Church gave the world the Bible as we know it (the deuterocanonical books are part of the bible). God is eternal, so Jesus can be in both the new and old testament. God became flesh - that’s what Christmas is all about :).
 
The Old Testament is filled with over 350 prophesies about the coming Messiah. The words coming and Messiah are key. As the Old Testament is a record of promises made to the chosen people provided they turn back to God and worship Him only and they repeatedly broke their promises and worshiped false gods. God promised future salvation through the Messiah who would come into the world.
So the Old Testament is a record of the promise and the New Testament is a record of the fulfillment of the promise in the person of Jesus, the Christ, the Messiah who fulfilled all the Old Testament prophesies.
Just as an apple contains the seeds of more apple trees. The Old Testament contains the seeds of Christianity and Catholicism, which is the original form of Christianity.
 
However Jesus, by the name of Jesus, was never mentioned in the Old Testament, yes? Ergo Christianity (followers of the Christ Jesus) could not have been in the Old Testament then as the Christ had not yet come to Earth. There were no practitioners of Catholicism in the Old Testament, they were practitioners of Judaism (however it is still God that they worshiped).
 
Are you guys kidding? Catholicsim is all over the Old Testament.

The sacrifice. The bread of the presence. The manna from heaven. Jesus is the new Moses and the perfect passover lamb. Noah passed through the flood which prefigures baptism. The Ark of the Covenant prefigures Mary. Bathsheba and the other Queen Mother’s listed in 1 Kings and 2 Kings prefigure Mary as the Mother of God and Mary as the Queen of Heaven.

Even the Popes have said that Catholic worship is essentailly Jewish worship brought to its fullness. The Old Testament is essentially incomprehensible outside of the context of Catholicism.

-Tim-
 
Brisbane11 said:
However Jesus, by the name of Jesus, was never mentioned in the Old Testament, yes? Ergo Christianity (followers of the Christ Jesus) could not have been in the Old Testament then as the Christ had not yet come to Earth. There were no practitioners of Catholicism in the Old Testament, they were practitioners of Judaism (however it is still God that they worshiped).
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The name “Jesus” is a Greek transliteration of the Hebrew Yehoshua/Yeshua (meaning: Salvation). Technically, those whose name is “Joshua” actually carry the same root and meaning as the name Jesus, even today.

There is a curious messianic prophecy with the “High Priest Joshua” mentioned in Zechariah 3. Now, OT prophecy can get dicey depending on interpretation, but if one takes this prophecy to mention Joshua (Salvation) the high priest who is newly clothed in righteous garments (and Jesus Christ is the ultimate high priest of all high priests), then the Zechariah 3 prophecy might indeed foreshadow, if not directly mention, a messiah named Jesus – only as the OT was written in Hebrew, it obviously bears Jesus’ Hebrew name: Yehoshua/Yeshua.

As to your final comment (and the thrust of this thread), I find it more important to focus on the continuum of the promises God has made throughout the ages to people He has called to follow Him. His salvation promise was first to the Jewish people, then to the Gentiles (see Paul’s epistle to the Romans). A community of believers commissioned by Jesus Christ, and planted in various locales by the Apostles, would eventually become the catholic (universal) church of Jesus Christ. Its present-day manifestation is in the Catholic and Orthodox traditions, though other Christian groups may claim the heritage as well.

If one takes the continuum of God’s salvation plan, an argument can be made that God’s plan of salvation is catholic (universal), through the Jewish people first, but extended also to Gentiles through this mystical body of Jesus’ followers known as The Church.
 
I’d have to agree about the OT saints in heaven–but the other way of looking at the question would be, “Are there historical Catholics mentioned in the Old Testament?” Since the Old Testament was written before Jesus was incarnate, and Catholics/Christians only appeared through Jesus’ ministry, we’d have to say no. Just as we would not say that any Democratic or Republican Party members were running around in the American Colonies before the Revolutionary War: it would be an anachronism.

On the other hand, the Church, and specific members (such as Mary) are prefigured or prophesied in the Old Testament, but they do not appear as such.
 
TimothyH said:
Are you guys kidding? Catholicsim is all over the Old Testament.

The sacrifice. The bread of the presence. The manna from heaven. Jesus is the new Moses and the perfect passover lamb. Noah passed through the flood which prefigures baptism. The Ark of the Covenant prefigures Mary. Bathsheba and the other Queen Mother’s listed in 1 Kings and 2 Kings prefigure Mary as the Mother of God and Mary as the Queen of Heaven.

Even the Popes have said that Catholic worship is essentailly Jewish worship brought to its fullness. The Old Testament is essentially incomprehensible outside of the context of Catholicism.

-Tim-
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Not to mention the Priest Melchezedek (spelling) who offered a celebration of bread and wine, which foreshadows The Mass after Abraham returned from his pursuit and victory over those who took Lot and his tribe and possessions.
 
The first reading for August 21 is Isaiah 22:18-23

I will clothe him with your robe,
and gird him with your sash,
and give over to him your authority.
I will place the key of the Hous of David on Eliakim’s shoulder;
when he opens, no one shall shut,
when he shuts, no one shall open.(Isaiah 22:20-22)

Every Catholic should be intimately familiar with this verse. It is a prefigurment of the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven and the office of prime minister appointed to Peter.

Personally, I can’t go two or three chapters in the Old Testament before I see something Catholic.

-Tim-
 
@swiss guy: You should post something else lol Your posts sit at 666 right now lol Not that that means anything of course but just an observation
 
Brisbane11 said:
I’ve gotten into a debate of sorts with a friend of mine over whether or not there are Catholics in the Old Testament. I maintain that there are no Catholic practitioners in the Old Testament given the following of Jesus Christ and Christianity, which couldn’t exactly crop up before The Christ was born. Jesus Christ was one of the big cruxes in the New Testament and, if I can remember off the top of my head, never in the Old Testament (although I could be wrong on this, I don’t have anything right on hand to look this up to be sure at the moment). However he states this is false, as the entire Bible is Catholic text.

I am confused, I swear I am right as I don’t recollect anything akin to Catholicism being mentioned in the Old Testament, I gave one reason above but also that it is the the old covenant before Christianity came to be. It would not make sense for something that technically has not come to pass yet to be in texts pertaining to its preceding roots. However he is an intelligent person and perhaps I have missed or forgotten something that he remembers readily. Can anyone clarify this for me, please? I also apologize if this is in the wrong section, I was confused as to where this would be most appropriate.
Click to expand...
The Catholic Church is the Church that Jesus Christ founded when he was on the Earth in the flesh 2000 years ago. Therefore It is not in the Old Testament.
 
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