Catholicism Not really original

[Michael_Francis]

Thread pruned of off topic posts and posts edited and some infractions issued.

Please maintain the height of charity in all posts and remain on topic so far as possible. (I realize that this OP does really allow for that.)

Please carry on.
MF

 

[Morning_Star15]

Well, GregoryPalamas, it was his own decision to start attacking - he could have simply started a thread that aimed at a discussion of the “problems” he perceives with the Catholic Church, and sought to clear up any misconceptions. But instead of an intelligent discussion, he just ignored any question that was asked and jumped from one unfounded attack on the CC to another, making wild assertions that weren’t backed up by any evidence whatsoever and which, if anything, made the Anglican Church look worse than the Catholic Church!

I really hope that if ReformedPlus posts again on this thread, he’ll have something more intelligent to say than his accusations of the CC brainwashing people.

One can only hope.

 

[GregoryPalamas]

Well, GregoryPalamas, it was his own decision to start attacking - he could have simply started a thread that aimed at a discussion of the “problems” he perceives with the Catholic Church, and sought to clear up any misconceptions. But instead of an intelligent discussion, he just ignored any question that was asked and jumped from one unfounded attack on the CC to another, making wild assertions that weren’t backed up by any evidence whatsoever and which, if anything, made the Anglican Church look worse than the Catholic Church!

I really hope that if ReformedPlus posts again on this thread, he’ll have something more intelligent to say than his accusations of the CC brainwashing people.

One can only hope.

I fully agree.

CDL

 

[Gamera]

The original post still has me confused. What difference does it make whether the Catholic Church changes its liturgical calendar? So what? Suppose the Catholic Church changed its calendar every ten years — who cares? It doesn’t become a “different church” by the ministerial act of changing its schedule. If my local parish changes its Mass time from 10:30 AM to 11:00 AM, does it then become a “different church?”

 

[jmcrae]

Ah, it is only the Roman church who refers to Peter as the first pope but history doesn’t support that at all.

Only someone who has never read the Early Fathers could say something like that. Start with St. Cyprian’s “On Christian Unity,” and also read “Against the Heretics,” by St. Irenaeus.

The supremacy of Rome (or the illusion thereof) was always in constant question. Peter was a poor fisherman who wasn’t charasmatic at all and much of the time wasn’t even bright. The popes are carried into the mass surrounded by mounds of gold and jewels. Peter was poor.

What has this got to do with anything? That’s like saying that my mother isn’t really my mother, because when I was born, she was poor, dressed in jeans, and lived out of her car, but now she has a big house and wears fancy dresses, goes to parties, and wears jewelry.

There isn’t even the remotest of comparisons here. Catholic teaching does not correspond with teachings of the early church. Check your history regarding the immaculate conception and the assumption. Nowhere to be found in scripture or the early church. Completely fabricated by the Roman Catholic Church.

Do yourself a huge favour and actually read the actual writings of the Early Fathers.

A good starting place is The Faith of the Early Fathers, by William Jurgens, which contains all of the most famous writings, together with a Doctrinal index that shows where we find not only the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption, but also many other things (such as Confession to a priest, and the Mass) that Protestants wish the Early Church had never done.

 

[Mannyfit75]

I will pray for all of you who have been distorted in this Lenten season. Have a good night my Christian brothers and sisters. I was Catholic for 34 years and I got out. The longer you are out of it, the clearer you can see the distortion and the brainwashing. May God be with you all.

Since 1529, the Anglican Church is corrupted Church. They by allowing women priests. They are going against what the Apostles taught.

You have been distorted by your own selfish desires and wants.

No Christian Church has authority to ordain women priest. Is your Church the True Church of Christ? I think not. Only the Catholic Church is the ONE TRUE CHURCH of Christ.

 

[Mannyfit75]

The Catholic church was formed by an emperor at which time it immediately began distorting sacred tradition. The Reformation took place to try and right the wrongs of the Catholic church and Henry’s divorce only facilitated the process. Catholics can blame themselves for what happened. The politics and lies.

Nope. It wasn’t. You who lack any historical support for your position.

St. Ignatius of Antioch, the Apostle of St. John the Apostle wrote in 107-110 A.D wrote to the Smyrnaeans. This was the first time Christ’s Church was called Catholic.

See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution55 of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper56 Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.

The Anglican Church was wrong to allow King Henry the 8th to divorce. He wanted the divorce for his own selfish needs, and wanted to have a male child to be his heir. King Henry is a prideful men and beheaded two of his 6 wives.

His life is not even Christ like.

 

[Alphonsine]

I just have a question for you… Where in the Bible is either sola scriptura or sola fide justified?

 

[jmcrae]

I just have a question for you… Where in the Bible is either sola scriptura or sola fide justified?

Do Anglicans believe in either of those? (I’m not sure - I don’t think so, though.)

 

[Eden]

Pope Gregory XIII reformed the Julian calendar and the Church also has the authority to reform the Gregorian calendar subsequently. I’m sorry to say that I don’t understand what you are going on about. God is not limited by our human concept of time and calendars. Let’s get to the heavy theological stuff that actually matters, O.K.?

 

[mlchance]

Catholic teaching does not correspond with teachings of the early church.

So, when Henry VIII and his robber-baron buddies were stealing Church property, persecuting Catholics, arranging for various murders, et cetera, did that correspond with the teachings of the early church?

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[SPH1]

Did you know that the Gregorian calender that you follow along with us Anglicans was altered in the Catholic church away from its original form? What you call ordinary time was originally not that at all. We still follow the calender in its true tradition by counting the Sundays after the saesons of Epiphany and Pentecost instead of merely referring to it as ordinary time. Who changed and who remained true to original tradition?

Christ gave His Church the authority to teach and establish the liturgy. As an aid in teaching and the liturgy, the Church has full authority to develop a liturgical calendar. The calendar is not an unchanging dogma. I do not know or really care about supposed change to the calendar. Whatever the calendar is, the Holy Church has full authority to so determine.

Your attack in the calendar example is really silly. For the rest of your posts in this thread, it looks like standard anti-Catholic stuff.

Now, seriously. You cannot REALLY believe that the Anglican Church, or any permutation thereof, is really the true Church. Do you?

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Hmmm, I have to join the group of those who are greatly confused about the first post. The calendar was changed? So what? The Church is not (and was never) defined by it’s liturgical calendar. In fact the Gregorian Calendar is only a bit older than 400 years. That’s much less than 1977 years. The Calendar (still used by many Orthodox Churches) before that was call Julian and was introduced in 46 BC by Julius Caesar. This Calendar was traditional at that time but doesn’t even have Christian origins.

Look, calendar is not a dogma. This sounds almost like saying that we can prove that Catholic Church is not THE Church because it’s using wax candles and we all know that the early church wasn’t using them.

And since you’re Anglican and you’re saying that Catholics are no longer part of the Church because of the calendar then you are not part of it as well. Am I not correct?

 

[Randy_Carson]

AND… The Catholic church as presented today is really not the original Christ church as it was meant to be preserved.

Since we can trace the Apostolic Succession of the Popes from Benedict XVI all the way back to Peter, I think we have a fairly strong case. :yup:

Now, if I’m not mistaken, your own faith tradition begins with that model of Christian virtue, Henry VIII, correct?

 

[GKC]

Folks, this is not a forum I spend much time in, but I happened to spot this thread. Be advised that not all Anglicans, and not all orthodox, traditional Anglicans, at that, sound like this guy. I’m guessing this is a reformed, evangelical flavored Anglican, maybe something like the REC.

GKC

Anglicanus Catholicus

 

[Gamera]

Don’t worry, I wouldn’t judge any church by the conduct of a particular member — certainly there are Catholics who aren’t good examples of Catholicism. I certainly wouldn’t judge all of Anglicanism by the statements of this poster.

 

[jmcrae]

Folks, this is not a forum I spend much time in, but I happened to spot this thread. Be advised that not all Anglicans, and not all orthodox, traditional Anglicans, at that, sound like this guy.

I should hope not. Anyway, I think a well-educated Anglican would not confuse the Gregorian calendar with the Liturgical calendar.

I’m guessing this is a reformed, evangelical flavored Anglican, maybe something like the REC.

Oh, yay, yet another Protestant denomination that I have never even heard of before.

What does REC stand for?

 

[GKC]

I should hope not. Anyway, I think a well-educated Anglican would not confuse the Gregorian calendar with the Liturgical calendar.

Oh, yay, yet another Protestant denomination that I have never even heard of before.

What does REC stand for?

Sorry. Reformed Episcopal Church. Split off from the American Episcopal Curch about 130+ years ago, when Anglicanism generally was shifting a little toward what we would call the Anglo-Catholic side. Not for them, thank you. They are still around, though they are not quite as
adamantly (2 candles on the Table) reformed as they once were. They are sort of like a very early form of the Continuing Anglican movement, except different.

GKC

 

[Margaret33]

Did you know that the Gregorian calender that you follow along with us Anglicans was altered in the Catholic church away from its original form? What you call ordinary time was originally not that at all. We still follow the calender in its true tradition by counting the Sundays after the saesons of Epiphany and Pentecost instead of merely referring to it as ordinary time. Who changed and who remained true to original tradition?

Perhaps I’m missing a major key ingredient in your statement here… so you are saying that the way we calculate time automatically determines the doctrinal basis of our religion and it’s originality?? I find your thinking here a bit disjointed, not to mention superficially irrelevant.

 

[El_Paulo]

I will pray for all of you who have been distorted in this Lenten season. Have a good night my Christian brothers and sisters. I was Catholic for 34 years and I got out. The longer you are out of it, the clearer you can see the distortion and the brainwashing. May God be with you all.

With respect, ReformationPlus, you can do better than this - you are simply presenting a caricature of both Anglicanism and Catholicism.

This viewpoint is not representative of the majority of the Anglicans I know, many of whom are very charitable and affectionate towards their Catholic brothers and sisters - and I return that affection; we hold a lot in common.

This is a “crusade” that you don’t really need to embark on, IMHO. The question I would direct at you before any other is,*** “WHY?”***