Catholicism/Salvation obtained thru Christ and Good Works?

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Been on the fringe of this with quite a few Catholic friends and I’m not seeing where works is a condition of Salvation. Accepting Christ Jesus as your Lord and Savior is the way to salvation. Works are proof that you truely received salvation, not a additional requirement set forth by Christ. So what is it in the Catholic faith? I hope it isn’t a faith of works like Islam.

Christ=Salvation

Works=Proof of received Salvation in mans eyes (the heart is preceived by God)

So it can be said that a Catholic who does many great works, isn’t necessarily saved?

Comments please.

Take Care and May God Bless!

Ed
 
ronin67 said:
Been on the fringe of this with quite a few Catholic friends and I’m not seeing where works is a condition of Salvation. Accepting Christ Jesus as your Lord and Savior is the way to salvation. Works are proof that you truely received salvation, not a additional requirement set forth by Christ. So what is it in the Catholic faith? I hope it isn’t a faith of works like Islam.

Christ=Salvation

Works=Proof of received Salvation in mans eyes (the heart is preceived by God)
**
So it can be said that a Catholic who does many great works, isn’t necessarily saved?**

Comments please.

Take Care and May God Bless!

Ed
Click to expand...
**
So it can be said that a Catholic who does many great works, isn’t necessarily saved?
** Absolutely! **No one **is saved by works alone. Likewise, simply saying you believe in Christ will not save you.Your deeds are evidence of your Faith.

Love follows the same reasoning. If someone proclaims to love someone else, but, his actions are clearly to the contrary, the words were just that - words! Those words are genuine only if supported by actions.

The position of the Catholic Church on Faith accompanied by works being necessary for Salvation was one of the key doctrines that drew me home to the Catholic Church. For me, it is fundamental - not even up for debate!

James 2:
14
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
15
If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day,
16
and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well,” but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it?
17
So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18
Indeed someone might say, “You have faith and I have works.” Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.
19
You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.
20
Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless?
21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?
22
You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works.
23
Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called “the friend of God.”
24
See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
25
And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route?
26
For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

Says it all!
 
Protestants for the most see Salvation as a onetime event. You “get saved” when you say I accept Jesus. There is disagreement among Many Protestants over if and how you can “lose” Salvation.

The Bible and the history of the Jews shows that Salvation is an ongoing process (for Jews) it begins with the brit for the boy, or naming of and dedication of a girl. (additiona laws for first born sons). Then thoughout ones life one has to live a life according to the spirit and the letter of the law.

For Catholics, and according to the Greek text of the NT, we see that Salvation is predominantly written of in a tense of the word that denotes it as an ongoing process, and not a static or one time event. Even St. Paul speaks of running the good race, that is that he has no assurance in a onetime event, but an ongoing event. Working out our Salvation, which we read of in the NT, also speaks of an ongoing event. So with the understanding of the greek NT, and the passages above, Catholics take the Biblical approach to salvation.

With regard to Catholics and works. First, not just any work will do. The works must be done with the intention of giving glory to God. How do we do that? Well since no work we do is worthy unless it is united to Jesus and His sacrifice, and is elevated by that union with Christ’s will, we need to be living a life of Grace, ie. free of mortal sins, and sorry for any offences we have made against God. A Catholic (or anyone for that matter) who thinks that he can contribute money to a charity, or do some other good work, and live a life of sin is only deluding himself.

I know that Protestant theologians came up with the ideas that works flow from salvation, however there have been thousands of people who have done good deeds and works who are not Protestant Chrisitans, where do the good works they do come from if works are a proof of salvation? If we use the Protestant argument they must all be saved, even though they have not accepted Jesus.

Nope for me I’ll stick with what the Catholic Church has taught since the time of the Apostles.
 
It’s even more complicated than that, yet also very simple. All salvation comes from grace. Not Faith, Not Works. Faith and Works are reflections of grace!

I like to imagine gazing at a lovely lake. In the waters you can see the reflections of the beautiful pine trees and the lovely full moon. The trees are like the works, filling out the surroundings and giving the air we breath and the wood we need to have our meals and homes. The moon, representing faith, provides the light to keep us on the journey and encourages us with hope.

Now where is the grace? It is the water in the lake. It is the source of our livelihood and gives us the view of the whole sky in simple terms. It teaches us that even though the moon is so far away and the trees are so vast in number and large in size, with grace, they are reachable and in fact go hand in hand.

We begin with grace, then we live our lives guided by faith and proven through works.
 
ronin67 said:
Been on the fringe of this with quite a few Catholic friends and I’m not seeing where works is a condition of Salvation. Accepting Christ Jesus as your Lord and Savior is the way to salvation. Works are proof that you truely received salvation, not a additional requirement set forth by Christ. So what is it in the Catholic faith? I hope it isn’t a faith of works like Islam.

Christ=Salvation

Works=Proof of received Salvation in mans eyes (the heart is preceived by God)

So it can be said that a Catholic who does many great works, isn’t necessarily saved?

Comments please.

Take Care and May God Bless!

Ed
Click to expand...
I am interested to know how a Protestant would interpret Matthew 25: 31-46.
 
Grace is the condition of salvation.

If you’re in the state of grace, you’re saved.
If you’re not in the state of grace, you’re not saved.

You’re not in the state of grace if,
  • You’ve never been brought into the state of grace.
  • You’ve fallen from the state of grace.
You fall from the state of grace through mortal sin.

The question, now, is whether deliberately choosing not to do a good work is a mortal sin. Some may bring up the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man. Others may bring up the parable of the Sheep and the Goats.

Discuss.
 
Vincent said:
Grace is the condition of salvation.

If you’re in the state of grace, you’re saved.
If you’re not in the state of grace, you’re not saved.

You’re not in the state of grace if,
  • You’ve never been brought into the state of grace.
  • You’ve fallen from the state of grace.
You fall from the state of grace through mortal sin.

The question, now, is whether deliberately choosing not to do a good work is a mortal sin. Some may bring up the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man. Others may bring up the parable of the Sheep and the Goats.

Discuss.
Click to expand...
Matthew 25:
45
He will answer them, 'Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.'
46
And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
 
This is pretty convincing evidence to me:

Matthew 25:31-46 (Douay-Rheims)

31 And when the Son of man shall come in his majesty, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit upon the seat of his majesty. 32 And all nations shall be gathered together before him, and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left. 34 Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in:

36 Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me. 37 Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, and fed thee; thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 And when did we see thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and covered thee? 39 Or when did we see thee sick or in prison, and came to thee? 40 And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.

41 Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry, and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me not to drink. 43 I was a stranger, and you took me not in: naked, and you covered me not: sick and in prison, and you did not visit me. 44 Then they also shall answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to thee? 45 Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me.

46 And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.
 
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