Catholicism steepest declining religion in US, Nones fastest growing

[Peebo]

Well…I came into the Catholic Church 24 years ago…well after Vatican II…I had an elderly Catholic lady tell me Vatican II was the greatest thing to happen to the church because instead of Catholics going to church out of fear of being ostracized by the church…or because it was just a traditional or cultural thing for Catholics to go to mass with no real commitment to their faith…now you only had Catholics who really wanted to be there out of love for God…and there may have been some truth in that because while Catholics went to mass on Sunday the rest of the week you would think by the actions of many of them that there wasn’t a christian bone in their body

 

[johnnyc176]

Well…I came into the Catholic Church 24 years ago…well after Vatican II…I had an elderly Catholic lady tell me Vatican II was the greatest thing to happen to the church because instead of Catholics going to church out of fear of being ostracized by the church…or because it was just a traditional or cultural thing for Catholics to go to mass with no real commitment to their faith…now you only had Catholics who really wanted to be there out of love for God…and there may have been some truth in that because while Catholics went to mass on Sunday the rest of the week you would think by the actions of many of them that there wasn’t a christian bone in their body

But who are you to judge right?

 

[johnnyc176]

I would not worry about the Catholic Church in America. There are as many good solid American Catholics as there are in most Western countries. Look at the faith in Europe. Where I live, Australia, secularism is at the peak of its influence with the Church fighting the scandal of sexual perversion throughout its ranks of teaching orders and the priesthood. We cannot expect an increase in numbers when the world has been given such an armory against the Church from the very Church itself.

Religion in America is on the decline across the board, along with its economy, foreign policy, farcical politics and a massive increase in the working poor. Its decline as a nation, exacerbated by any future war will bring the population back to religion, if not the Catholic faith itself.
The future of the Church is in Africa and Asia and South America, not in the West, invaded and in decline for decades.
A smaller Church may be a better church and seeing the lukewarm being spewed from the mouth of the Lord may be the emetic we need for those at the buffet rather than the feast.

Excellent observation. It’s actually a great time to be a part of the Church that Jesus founded, the Catholic Church in America. We are blessed. All the enemies arrayed against it…the culture of death, relativism. Just keep fighting the good fight.

 

[Thorolfr]

The future of the Church is in Africa and Asia and South America, not in the West, invaded and in decline for decades.

I doubt that the Catholic Church is doing all that well in South America. According to another Pew survey from 2014:

Latin America is home to more than 425 million Catholics – nearly 40% of the world’s total Catholic population – and the Roman Catholic Church now has a Latin American pope for the first time in its history. Yet identification with Catholicism has declined throughout the region, according to a major new Pew Research Center survey that examines religious affiliations, beliefs and practices in 18 countries and one U.S. territory (Puerto Rico) across Latin America and the Caribbean.

Historical data suggest that for most of the 20th century, from 1900 through the 1960s, at least 90% of Latin America’s population was Catholic (See History of Religious Change). **Today, the Pew Research survey shows, 69% of adults across the region identify as Catholic. In nearly every country surveyed, the Catholic Church has experienced net losses from religious switching, as many Latin Americans have joined evangelical Protestant churches or rejected organized religion altogether. **For example, roughly one-in-four Nicaraguans, one-in-five Brazilians and one-in-seven Venezuelans are former Catholics.

Overall, 84% of Latin American adults report that they were raised Catholic, 15 percentage points more than currently identify as Catholic. The pattern is reversed among Protestants and people who do not identify with any religion: While the Catholic Church has lost adherents through religious switching, both Protestant churches and the religiously unaffiliated population in the region have gained members. Just one-in-ten Latin Americans (9%) were raised in Protestant churches, but nearly one-in-five (19%) now describe themselves as Protestants. And while only 4% of Latin Americans were raised without a religious affiliation, twice as many (8%) are unaffiliated today.

Much of the movement away from Catholicism and toward Protestantism in Latin America has occurred in the span of a single lifetime. Indeed, in most of the countries surveyed, at least a third of current Protestants were raised in the Catholic Church, and half or more say they were baptized as Catholics. For example, nearly three-quarters of current Protestants in Colombia were raised Catholic, and 84% say they were baptized as Catholics.

pewforum.org/2014/11/13/religion-in-latin-america/

 

[Peebo]

But who are you to judge right?

Nothing to do with judging when you see and hear them acting out

 

[Padres1969]

Well…I came into the Catholic Church 24 years ago…well after Vatican II…I had an elderly Catholic lady tell me Vatican II was the greatest thing to happen to the church because instead of Catholics going to church out of fear of being ostracized by the church…or because it was just a traditional or cultural thing for Catholics to go to mass with no real commitment to their faith…now you only had Catholics who really wanted to be there out of love for God…and there may have been some truth in that because while Catholics went to mass on Sunday the rest of the week you would think by the actions of many of them that there wasn’t a christian bone in their body

Honestly having grown up in the post VII church I’m not sure this elderly lady had a foot to stand on. I grew up surrounded by people still going to mass because it was the traditional or cultural thing to do even in the Post VII RCC. And many of them during the week didn’t have a Catholic bone in their bodies at the very least, if not a charitable Christian bone. I don’t think Vatican II was some watershed that rid the RCC of people going through the motions or living Catholic but heterodox. If anything in my personal experience it simply was a way for more people to do so and not feel as bad about it since their heterodoxy wasn’t as apparent, or even pointed out as such when it became apparent.

 

[LethalMouse]

I have used now on a few people in internet land the following quote: “You are the reason people stop going to church” I think the overarching sentiment today is one of a general belief in God and the idea that all organized religions are “made up”. Mix that with the negativity people get when attending any organized church and it is very hard to see God at work in them.

So for anyone concerned with these stats, it starts with how you act. Holier than thou attitudes only earns these stats.

When dealing with organized religion, I find misinformation a fantastic force. As many know much anti-catholic stuff isn’t even true. (I have in recent years encountered many 7th day Adventists, and they are hardcore at slipping anti catholic stuff around. Apparently we are devil worshipers…)So Protestants are pretty good at convincing lapse or weak Catholics to switch. Plus they tend to ding Catholics on our emphasis on not sinning. So many protestants I know love it because they operate under the "I can sin all I want because I said “Jesus” like it was “abracadabra” and now if I mass murdered 200 people it is still only heaven for me I can understand how appealing that can be.

Then have you seen even here in the US where the avg education is better than say much of South America where they ask people on the street questions? OMG people are no more intelligent than the serfs of the middle ages, but the everyone gets a trophy and I can read words…people think they are Aristotle and Plato level. So they truly believe they can know better.

Then I am also a big believer in poor science. In my atheist times, I obviously looked to science for all the answers…this was a two fold effect for me. One a lot of logical conclusions I made for what is a good idea aligned with the biblical God. Two digging deep into physics, I came up with the conclusion that there was most likely a God. Now given the people on the street interviews above, these people are not going to “dig deep” into physics. they are going to hear the most surface evangelical atheist’s explanation and think they are now Einstein.

Theologically speaking and this is interesting I think. According to the bible the faithful are largely outnumbered when things end…and we have legal baby killing, Adultery is not even a fault for divorce in half the states, gays can get married etc. Biblically, things are going as they were expected.

 

[Reuben_J]

As an outsider and a protestant, I believe I can offer some helpful insight:

• The CC is seen in unfavourable light; Scandles by people in authority within the CC who represent the church(takes away trust); historical scandals and injustices(Creates suspicion); Protestant reformation and modern protestant churches creating doubt about the CC; Ignorance on the part of the people and a tendancy to believe conspiracy theory over truth; Modern authors attacking church’s credibility(Davinci code).

That is to name a few. Also there is a church everywhere with someone from some denomination claiming to be part of a church and a christian, so joining the CC is unnecessary. A lot of protestant churches do hospitable works of charity; Are hospitable to newcomers and believers, have many social events, come across as warm and friendly; have modern music and sermons that jive well with people.

CC is seen as a woman oppressing, secrative, untrustworthy, outdated, corrupt institution that has no kept up with the times and people feel disconnected with the CC. Hope this helps. I find people are generally cynical and do not want to be played for fools. That’s why they like it as a social club but don’t follow what it teaches or subscribe to it’s truths.

People generally have modernistic attitudes towards sex, contraception, science, and are agnostic or athiest or find another religion such as Buddhism to be appealing due to it’s perceived peacefulness.

Sadly but unfortunately true in many ways. So I quite agree with this evaluation. Poor and negative image of the Church is strong deterrent and influence for those that do not know any better. It is about perception. If people cannot overcome this first hurdle, what chance do they have into something on which they have to gamble their whole life on?

Talking about the narrow road … and it was not just about people that lived two thousand years ago …

 

[Reuben_J]

If this is true, why was the Church stronger pre-VaticanII?? Vocations to the priesthood and to becoming nuns and brothers were statistically much higher in the Church during the time of meatless Fridays, veiled females, monthly confessions, etc. There were four young men [13-14 years old] who went straight to the seminary from our 8th-grade class. We never thought of it in terms of being ‘easy’…it simply defined us as who we were - Catholics, and proud of it!

None of us know.

Why there were more church going Americans in the fifties and why there are less now?

Why there is greater growth in Catholicism in Africa and Asia now and why there was less in the fifties?

Why there was more martyrs in the early era of Christendom and very rare now?

Barring God Himself, it would take a genius to know the answer to this type of questions.

Would social factors and new ways of life with the advent of modern technology like birth control and the widespread drug usage factoring in the phenomenon? Maybe.

 

[josephback]

Okay, serious question here.

If the Catholic Church is losing members like these numbers indicate, why does the Church continue with the tradition of only accepting converts one day per year? I mean, if someone wants to become a Baptist, he can go to a Baptist church on any Sunday, say he wants to convert, and voila–he’s a Baptist. If someone decides today that he wants to become a Catholic, his next opportunity is April, 2017. That doesn’t sound like a very welcoming faith to many people. I’m all for an RCIA program so people learn about what they are joining, but why not do it throughout the year?

(There is nothing in the New Testament where Jesus commanded the apostles to preach the Good News throughout the world, but only accept people into the Body of the Church on one day per year.) “Go forth and baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit” was commanded without limitations of timing.

This is a pertinent idea, so long as the new converts already have a good knowledge of the faith. Catholicism and (at least) Orthodoxy are different in that they believe it’s important that people know what they’re getting into beforehand, as membership implies both rights and obligations. Churches that put a low entry bar on joining are also making it easier for people to leave by having less invested in the decision. Making conversion easier just to increase the numbers is not the best way to long term success at evangelization.

 

[josephback]

So many protestants I know love it because they operate under the "I can sin all I want because I said “Jesus” like it was “abracadabra” and now if I mass murdered 200 people it is still only heaven for me I can understand how appealing that can be.

On the flip side many would mischaracterize Confession as providing a “license to sin.” There are many devout non-Catholics who aren’t so much against the Church as what they have been told is and perceive the Church to be. Once these misconceptions are addressed you may find them more receptive. Every religion has it’s good and bad adherents. Such an argument is ad hominem and doesn’t address the issues.

 

[Lion_IRC]

While I personally disagree with you on whether the country needs to support Christian values, I do believe we as Catholics and Christians need to do more in our part to evangelize, and walk the walk, and not cause further scandals.

What scandals did ‘we’ cause?

I’m tired of hearing the godless, secular media and (atheist) political left badgering good men like Cardinal George Pell about events in the early 1970’s insinuating a cover-up and demanding to know why he didn’t do more when people (parents) came to him wth gossip.

The scandal is that all those people who supposedly ‘knew’ child rape was happening are the guilty ones who failed to go straight to the police.

 

[Lion_IRC]

It sickens me to read about organisations like www.clergyproject.org who proclaim that there are tons of atheists hiding in the Church. Any wonder people are jaded about closet pedophiles…closet atheists…closet pedophiles…closet atheists…closet pedophiles…closet atheists…closet pedophiles…closet atheists…

Wait a moment!
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[Lion_IRC]

We must not scatter or be ashamed in this testing time.
We must stand with our true Priests and all religious who give their lives for the Glory of God.
We must understand that satan strikes at the shepherd in order to scatter the flock.
satan is the lord of lies and slander and selfishness. Of course he wants to use lies and defamation. God says the innocence of children is the key to Heaven.
Have a guess what satan (and the filthy lying pedophile) thinks when he sees such innocence?

We must hear what Jesus said to Nicodemus about things done in darkness.

 

[carefullytread]

It sickens me to read about organisations like www.clergyproject.org who proclaim that there are tons of atheists hiding in the Church. Any wonder people are jaded about closet pedophiles…closet atheists…closet pedophiles…closet atheists…closet pedophiles…closet atheists…closet pedophiles…closet atheists…

Wait a moment!
http://lewamack.com/Facebook/Pics/Confused-Surprised-Shocked-Q/Surprised-Shock-image316.gif

I read Caught in the Puplit whose authors are closely associated with the Clergy Project and I might encourage people interested in the topic to read it too. I would note that sections of the book are labelled by which author wrote them and you can safely skip the sections by Daniel Dennett alone. They’re just his thoughts and he’s one of those annoying New Atheists. The other sections authored by LaScola alone or both together are the sociological ones and give an interesting peek into the problems of non-believing clergy (mostly Protestants, but a few Catholic monks and priests in there as well).

And I would disagree with you saying that something like the Clergy Project is bad for the Church. Yes, they are annoying when they claim that huge fractions of the clergy are non-believing and overstate their case. That’s true. But if they help non-believing clergy out of the pulpit, how much the better for the rest of us.

There definitely are clergy who lose their faith. But, as explored in the book, they feel trapped. Their entire social and professional lives are built around it and so often they stay to, really, the detriment of everyone. If the Clergy Project can help them find their way out of a hollow ministry, we won’t have to listen to the homilies where you can tell it’s hollow words.

Seeing the priest celebrate Mass when you can tell he doesn’t believe in the Real Presence is really disheartening. If the Clergy Project helps to provide those people a way out, we all win.

In a way, it’s similar to the abuse scandals. Yes, the opponents of the Church make it seem like a larger issue than it is, but it is a real problem and problems are always better to address in the open than to secretly pretend they don’t exist.

 

[Randy_Carson]

It sickens me to read about organisations like www.clergyproject.org who proclaim that there are tons of atheists hiding in the Church. Any wonder people are jaded about closet pedophiles…closet atheists…closet pedophiles…closet atheists…closet pedophiles…closet atheists…closet pedophiles…closet atheists…

Wait a moment!
http://lewamack.com/Facebook/Pics/Confused-Surprised-Shocked-Q/Surprised-Shock-image316.gif

Dunno about that website, but I can tell you that I interacted with more than one atheist who had lost his faith in God, but continued working as the Church music director or what have you because they needed the paycheck.

These were evangelicals…not Catholics, but I suspect that Catholic parishes have their share of skeptics and agnostics in leadership roles.

 

[Lion_IRC]

I’d still like adawgj or someone/anyone to answer my post #72 and explain how ‘we’ in the Church caused the scandal when in fact the evidence shows behavior which is unambiguously OPPOSITE to God’s law done by people whose sole reason for covering up was precisely because of that fact.

By all means attack the Church (if you must) for its stance on abortion, sanctity of marriage, euthanasia, speaking truth to power, etc. If these cause a scandal or make the Church unpopular then I plead guilty as charged.

But I’m neither guilty of nor responsible for the actions of people whose disgusting behaviour is the exact OPPOSITE of what I/we believe.

And neither are our believed priests and nuns whose reputation is so viciously slandered by the insinuations and gossip of outsiders.

 

[Lion_IRC]

TYPICAL SECULAR ATTACK ON CLERGY (Like Cardinal George Pell)

THEY : *Why didn’t you go to the police? *
HE : *What for? *

THEY : *To tell them about the allegations *
HE : What allegations?

THEY : The allegations of child rape dating back 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago
HE : Who is it making such allegations?

THEY : The parents of victims - the people with all the evidence.
HE : Why don’t they go to the police?

THEY : Because they don’t want to
HE : I thought we had mandatory reporting laws

THEY : I’d like to move on now to the question of $$$ compensation.

 

[Expatreprocedit]

A conservative victory in the Presidential election would be the first step for a religious revival in America.

The alliance with “conservatism” (as presently defined) has been a disaster for Christian political causes. The pro-life and pro-traditional family causes have been irrevocably damaged by being linked with the party of Big Money, Wars for Profit, and Guns.

 

[Cyril_Of_Canada]

Sadly but unfortunately true in many ways. So I quite agree with this evaluation. Poor and negative image of the Church is strong deterrent and influence for those that do not know any better. It is about perception. If people cannot overcome this first hurdle, what chance do they have into something on which they have to gamble their whole life on?

Talking about the narrow road … and it was not just about people that lived two thousand years ago …

As a protestant, these scandals affected my perception of the Catholic Church.
Recently, I shared my belief about the catholic faith to someone I know who is a pastor with regards to avoiding mortal sins. You know what this respected pastor said in reply? He cited pedophile priests in the church.

As a father of a one year old, who wants to entrust their children in an organization that you cannot trust? It leads one to have a conviction that the organization cannot be trusted, which futher leads to an errosion in faith in the priesthood and how they handle clergy roles. Which leads to people taking a stance against the Catholic Church on various other issues(such as celebate priesthood). “Catholic Church doesn’t resonate with me, so I’ll protest and seek another church” is the thought, but the root of it would be for example the scandal which triggered the fear and the skepticism and doubt.

As a protestant, one of my biggest fears toward Catholicism was the use of icons, statues, and prayers to saints for intercession. I perceived that, by personal interpretation of the bible, as idolatry, but didn’t always outright say it by mouth or accusation of another. It was my deep down feeling and belief. The feeling and belief were confirmed by protestant preachers demonstrating their so-called proofs that catholics committed idolatry by bowing down to images and statues, even prayers itself. Even if a Catholic provided an explanation–an appologetic defence from the bible, one that even made sense from scripture—I’d harden my heart and stubbornly refuse to accept what they say as truth. “They’re lying about scripture based on their own interpretation,” I reasoned in my mind and heart. “They are deceiving me with clever words and explanations no differently than any other biblical appologist who has a strong conviction about their position, such as mormons, jehovas witnesses, muslims. The bible clear says not to do such-and-such. I’m no fool. I can clearly read the scripture with my own eyes. I don’t want to offend God, and so I’m not going to listen to them because I feel they are misleading me unintentionally.”

The kicker would be that all my attempts to prove them wrong were made ineffectual. I could never win, and it frustrated my even further, leading me to harden my heart even further and just let bygones be bygones. I had this fear and suspicion that Catholics unintentionally mislead people even if they could defend their position well. I just couldn’t accept their doctrines on Mary, Prayers to saints, Eucharest, Mary’s assumption, ect.

Because I believed in stuff like the five sola that hindered me, because of protestant preachers I listened to, and a lot of ignorance and misunderstanding and stubborness on my part.

I feel a lot of protestants have a similar experience as I did towards the Catholic Church.