O
oldcelt
Guest
You are certain of that across the board? It seems that the OP is substantially ahead of that notion.
- Status
O
oldcelt
Guest
Yet for centuries theologians taught the Genesis account as if it was real. Trying to make it fit the science is not the same as their having been correct all along. Creation started in a microsecond and has continued for billions of years. More than a little different from Genesis, Aquinas, or any other you name until about 30 years ago when they realized that the jig was up.Carl Sagan in Cosmos, 1980 A.D.
“Ten or twenty billion years ago, something happened – the Big Bang, the event that began our universe…. In that titanic cosmic explosion, the universe began an expansion which has never ceased…. As space stretched, the matter and energy in the universe expanded with it and rapidly cooled. The radiation of the cosmic fireball, which, then as now, filled the universe, moved through the spectrum – from gamma rays to X-rays to ultraviolet light; through the rainbow colors of the visible spectrum; into the infrared and radio regions. The remnants of that fireball, the cosmic background radiation, emanating from all parts of the sky can be detected by radio telescopes today. In the early universe, space was brilliantly illuminated.”
Book of Genesis: Centuries before Christ: “In the beginning God said: ‘Let there be light.’”
As astronomer Robert Jastrow pointed out in God and the Astronomers.
“For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.”
Good luck with your mom. Just remember, moms rule!
Here’s another Jastrow quote: We can assume that in a relatively short time — perhaps within 100 million years — the one celled organism evolved into a colony of cells. With the further passage of time, groups of cells within those colonies assumed specialized functions of food-gathering, digestion, the structural features of an outer skin, and so on; thus began the stage of evolution leading to the complex, many-celled creatures which dominate life today.
The fossil record contains no trace of these preliminary stages in the development of many-celled organisms. The first clues to the existence of relatively advanced forms of life consist of a few barely discernible tracks, presumably made in the primeval slime by soft, wriggling wormlike animals. These are found in rocks about one billion years old. These meager remains are the earliest traces of many-celled animal life on the planet.
Red Giants and White Dwarfs : Man’s Descent from the Stars (1971), p. 249
A
AprilFoolish
Guest
To get back to the title ‘Catholicism vs Astronomy’
There is no need for a ‘versus’ in the sense you suggest. Study Astronomy and learn about the wonders of the cosmos. A worthwhile pursuit.
Religion (I don’t want to pick on Catholicism) is a personal thing. It means what it means to those that hold their personal beliefs - for whatever reason. They main difference between a religion and Astronomy is that religions are man-made.
There is no reason why your religious beliefs and your scientific curiosity cannot continue. They are not reliant on each other.
There is no need for a ‘versus’ in the sense you suggest. Study Astronomy and learn about the wonders of the cosmos. A worthwhile pursuit.
Religion (I don’t want to pick on Catholicism) is a personal thing. It means what it means to those that hold their personal beliefs - for whatever reason. They main difference between a religion and Astronomy is that religions are man-made.
There is no reason why your religious beliefs and your scientific curiosity cannot continue. They are not reliant on each other.
E
edwest2
Guest
That is not the Catholic position. And it should not be the general position.
Peace,
Ed
C
CatholicWhovian
Guest
I believe religion and science can be reconciled. It’s just that some people in this forum, I have to admit, have a bad attitude towards science. It’s probably because they didn’t listen well in science class or something. It’s also that they still subscribe to the notion that there is a great divide between religion and science where in fact no such divide should ever have been created in the first place. Everyone is in it in this scam - believers and scientists alike. There are hundreds of cleric-scientists in history and today who see no conflict between their religious beliefs and their pursuit of scientific knowledge. Unfortunately people simply ignore that fact.
St. Thomas Aquinas noted that the Creator was different from creation in that the Creator is the ultimate cause of everything. Creation itself is naturally changing since it comes from the Creator and therefore can be studied. This gives leeway for rational beings - us - to study creation and its natural causes. So in this line of thinking - God as the Creator - it is possible that creation started from a small millisecond burst of light and has continued to change for billions of years. St. Thomas Aquinas wasn’t too far off I say.
S
Starrsmother
Guest
I have never seen any argument in science and theology that de-legitimized God but that was made by intelligent people. I recognize that there are people who feel that if you say that maybe the world was created in 7/24 hour days but most likely not, would feel that this denies the bible and Genesis. To me, as we learn more and more through science, I see more and more reasons to praise God in His far superior intelligence and glory. This doesn’t mean that science is always right or good. When you get into subjects like oral contraception, cloning, or some of the other fringe areas it saddens me. I think that God gave us intellects to use–and probably delights much as a parent whose first grader brings home a perfect paper when He sees us figure something out. However, we need to always remember that God was the beginning who put everything that we are just now learning is so awesome into place way back before man was even living in caves and discovering fire or the wheel!
C
Charlemagne_III
Guest
Granted. What does this have to do with the thread? You are talking biology, not astronomy.
K
kentcara2003
Guest
Hi, I am a great admirer of the immensity of the universe!! I read extensively how vast it is and the billions upon billions of galaxies, let alone the trillions upon trillions of planets…that exist…
When I first began to read about the universe it was to get some idea of how great God is…and man, is He Great!!
“I AM WHO AM”…the name that Yahweh gave Moses to tell the People of Israel, to describe who it was that sent him…
“The very Essence of Existence…”…so no matter how vast the universe is, the Creator holds it in the tiny finger of His hand…
The Church doesnt have a stand on whether alien life forms exist as far as I know…
I would like to propose though, that we are “ALONE IN THE UNIVERSE”. a HYPOTHESIS AS IT WERE, no more certain that the hypothesis 'WE ARE NOT ALONE IN THE UNIVERSE"…UNTIL OTHERWISE PROVEN BEYOND A DOUBT by a visit by alien beings or the discovery of them in some far flung corner of the universe…Incidentally, small minute life organisms doesnt equal the complex makeup of Man…
My argument is as follows:
Man was made by God as the object of His everlasting Love. Mankind fell through Adam’s sin and was redeemed by Christ Our Lord.
Every human being then is called from all eternity to spend his eternity with God, by cooperation with grace, the believer no less than the un-believer.
"Though He was in the from of God, He did not deem equality with God, something to be grasp at. Rather, He emptied Himself and took the form of a slave, being born in the likeness of men…Because of this God highly exalted Him and bestowed on Him, the name above every other name, so that at the name of Jesus, every knee must bend , in the heavens, on the earth, and under the earth, and every tongue proclaim to the glory of God the Father, Jesus Christ is Lord."St Paul
My argument is that God, the Infinite Being, chose to become man in Christ Jesus and exalted the whole human race and called us to become Gods, by His grace of Adoption. TO HONOUR THIS MYSTERY OF THE INCARNATION OF THE GOD-MAN, OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, THERE IS NO OTHER RATIONAL BEINGS CREATED. MAN IS THE ONLY VISIBLE RATIONAL BEING.
With all the immensity of the universe it would seem like a waste of the vast resources of the universe, doesnt it? THE WHOLE UNIVERSE JUST FOR MAN ONLY?
When we are raised from the dead, the UNIVERSE WILL BE OUR PLAYGROUND WHERE WE CAN MOVE BY MERELY BY OUR THOUGHTS THROUGH THE UNIVERSE AND MARVEL AT ITS BEAUTY.
Again, the argument is to HONOUR the mystery of uniqueness of the 2nd person of the Trinity becoming man… and of HIS LOVE OF ALL OF USll!!!
Yet again, WOULD GOD NOT WANT TO CREATE MANY RATIONAL BEINGS LIKE US TO SHOW FORTH THE SPLENDOR OF HIS POWER AND IMMENSITY?
My answer,… have you seen Star Wars, or any of the sci fiction, episodes…different shapes and sizes but same rationality…same rationality but different physical makeup…kind of boring, dont you think…of course we can argue we can think up of some other forms …of intellection…
But God has created a being, capable of displaying the immensity of His Beauty …have you guessed it…THE ANGELS…
THE ANGELS ARE NOT IN THE SAME CLASS OF BEINGS LIKE HUMAN BEINGS…
HUMAN BEINGS , BELONG TO one species, the human species
WE ARE EQUAL ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
EVERY ANGEL IS A SPECIE BY HIMSELF…^
^
^
^
ONE ON TOP OF THE OTHER, ONE ANGEL SO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FROM THE OTHER , FAR GREATER THAN THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN AMOEBA AND A WHALE!!! …
AN ANGEL’S GRASP OF REALITY DIFFERS FROM ANOTHER IS FAR GREATER THAN THAT OF A BABY AND EINSTEIN!!because pure spiritual beings are created as such. We cannot even begin to imagine the beauty of heaven when we see the trillions upon trillions of angels, each so completely different one from the other (they do not have bodies, so we will grasp their differences in God , in the spirit. Just as knowledge that God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit, doesnt give us any joy as it were, now while on earth, BUT IN ETERNITY IT WILL BE THE SOURCE OF UNENDING JOY EACH TO A DIFFERENT DEGREE ACCORDING TO OUR GROWTH IN HIS LOVE WHILE ON EARTH.!).
Of course, the proposal that we are alone, I must reiterate is based purely on speculation and only proposed as a hypothesis…but would it not be plausible…to honour the Incarnation of God and to dispense with variety by the creation of the angels?
Brother, Jesus is worthy of all praise and honour, worship and thanksgiving, glory, wisdom, power and might . Please do not lose sight of this, your God has loved you with an everlasting Love and has died an excruxiating death to open heaven for you and me. May you spend the rest of your life in thanksgiving and humble service to Him. I too have stumbled and lost sight of Him , by the myriads of arguments, from all quarters,but God has had mercy on me and have not allowed me to stray too far off …I desire to spend the rest of my life in grateful thanksgiving and profound gratitude in service of the Faith. …and in the midst of the uncertainties of life and its viscissitudes, the joy of the practice of the Faith and the hope of happiness of Heaven sustains me. As I hope it will you.
God bless.
Kentcara2003(3rd order SSCC)
When I first began to read about the universe it was to get some idea of how great God is…and man, is He Great!!
“I AM WHO AM”…the name that Yahweh gave Moses to tell the People of Israel, to describe who it was that sent him…
“The very Essence of Existence…”…so no matter how vast the universe is, the Creator holds it in the tiny finger of His hand…
The Church doesnt have a stand on whether alien life forms exist as far as I know…
I would like to propose though, that we are “ALONE IN THE UNIVERSE”. a HYPOTHESIS AS IT WERE, no more certain that the hypothesis 'WE ARE NOT ALONE IN THE UNIVERSE"…UNTIL OTHERWISE PROVEN BEYOND A DOUBT by a visit by alien beings or the discovery of them in some far flung corner of the universe…Incidentally, small minute life organisms doesnt equal the complex makeup of Man…
My argument is as follows:
Man was made by God as the object of His everlasting Love. Mankind fell through Adam’s sin and was redeemed by Christ Our Lord.
Every human being then is called from all eternity to spend his eternity with God, by cooperation with grace, the believer no less than the un-believer.
"Though He was in the from of God, He did not deem equality with God, something to be grasp at. Rather, He emptied Himself and took the form of a slave, being born in the likeness of men…Because of this God highly exalted Him and bestowed on Him, the name above every other name, so that at the name of Jesus, every knee must bend , in the heavens, on the earth, and under the earth, and every tongue proclaim to the glory of God the Father, Jesus Christ is Lord."St Paul
My argument is that God, the Infinite Being, chose to become man in Christ Jesus and exalted the whole human race and called us to become Gods, by His grace of Adoption. TO HONOUR THIS MYSTERY OF THE INCARNATION OF THE GOD-MAN, OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, THERE IS NO OTHER RATIONAL BEINGS CREATED. MAN IS THE ONLY VISIBLE RATIONAL BEING.
With all the immensity of the universe it would seem like a waste of the vast resources of the universe, doesnt it? THE WHOLE UNIVERSE JUST FOR MAN ONLY?
When we are raised from the dead, the UNIVERSE WILL BE OUR PLAYGROUND WHERE WE CAN MOVE BY MERELY BY OUR THOUGHTS THROUGH THE UNIVERSE AND MARVEL AT ITS BEAUTY.
Again, the argument is to HONOUR the mystery of uniqueness of the 2nd person of the Trinity becoming man… and of HIS LOVE OF ALL OF USll!!!
Yet again, WOULD GOD NOT WANT TO CREATE MANY RATIONAL BEINGS LIKE US TO SHOW FORTH THE SPLENDOR OF HIS POWER AND IMMENSITY?
My answer,… have you seen Star Wars, or any of the sci fiction, episodes…different shapes and sizes but same rationality…same rationality but different physical makeup…kind of boring, dont you think…of course we can argue we can think up of some other forms …of intellection…
But God has created a being, capable of displaying the immensity of His Beauty …have you guessed it…THE ANGELS…
THE ANGELS ARE NOT IN THE SAME CLASS OF BEINGS LIKE HUMAN BEINGS…
HUMAN BEINGS , BELONG TO one species, the human species
WE ARE EQUAL ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
EVERY ANGEL IS A SPECIE BY HIMSELF…^
^
^
^
ONE ON TOP OF THE OTHER, ONE ANGEL SO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FROM THE OTHER , FAR GREATER THAN THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN AMOEBA AND A WHALE!!! …
AN ANGEL’S GRASP OF REALITY DIFFERS FROM ANOTHER IS FAR GREATER THAN THAT OF A BABY AND EINSTEIN!!because pure spiritual beings are created as such. We cannot even begin to imagine the beauty of heaven when we see the trillions upon trillions of angels, each so completely different one from the other (they do not have bodies, so we will grasp their differences in God , in the spirit. Just as knowledge that God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit, doesnt give us any joy as it were, now while on earth, BUT IN ETERNITY IT WILL BE THE SOURCE OF UNENDING JOY EACH TO A DIFFERENT DEGREE ACCORDING TO OUR GROWTH IN HIS LOVE WHILE ON EARTH.!).
Of course, the proposal that we are alone, I must reiterate is based purely on speculation and only proposed as a hypothesis…but would it not be plausible…to honour the Incarnation of God and to dispense with variety by the creation of the angels?
Brother, Jesus is worthy of all praise and honour, worship and thanksgiving, glory, wisdom, power and might . Please do not lose sight of this, your God has loved you with an everlasting Love and has died an excruxiating death to open heaven for you and me. May you spend the rest of your life in thanksgiving and humble service to Him. I too have stumbled and lost sight of Him , by the myriads of arguments, from all quarters,but God has had mercy on me and have not allowed me to stray too far off …I desire to spend the rest of my life in grateful thanksgiving and profound gratitude in service of the Faith. …and in the midst of the uncertainties of life and its viscissitudes, the joy of the practice of the Faith and the hope of happiness of Heaven sustains me. As I hope it will you.
God bless.
Kentcara2003(3rd order SSCC)
C
Charlemagne_III
Guest
This website may help the layman with a scientific interest.
y-jesus.com/more/science-christianity-compatible/
y-jesus.com/more/science-christianity-compatible/
T
ThinkingSapien
Guest
Well, we don’t have too; there’s no obligation. There is the possibility that our existence as individuals and as a group is finite and we may remain dependent on the earth as our home or at least as life support. Our end could come far before we find a planet that can support societies. If that turns out to be the case I don’t feel it’s tragic.
However, if we could get the level of support needed to engage in new potential home planets I think that would indicate a level of world cooperation that has thus far been unseen. It would be interesting.
A
adawgj
Guest
To the OP
I’d suggest watching Jesuit Brother Guy Consolmagno who is an astronomer for the Vatican Observatory.
youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=u8wLH4z7tn4#t=0
There shouldn’t be any conflict between science and the Bible. The bible does have some cool astronomy parts too. So your faith shouldn’t hinder your scientific pursuits and interests.
If you want to know God, know his creation he created the heavens and the earth.
Have fun
I’d suggest watching Jesuit Brother Guy Consolmagno who is an astronomer for the Vatican Observatory.
youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=u8wLH4z7tn4#t=0
There shouldn’t be any conflict between science and the Bible. The bible does have some cool astronomy parts too. So your faith shouldn’t hinder your scientific pursuits and interests.
If you want to know God, know his creation he created the heavens and the earth.
Have fun
- Status