Catholicism - What is it that 'really' bugs you?

[happilycatholic]

Good Day! Peace Be With You and Yours!

Okay, I know all the cookie-cutter answers to this question:

1. Primacy of the Pope
2. Adoration of Mary
3. Transubstatiation
4. Veneration of Saints
5. Confession to a priest

etc. etc.

But none of these things actually affects you unless you are catholic or thinking of becoming catholic. What I want to know and from whom is this:

From all the non-catholic and those not even contemplating converting, what bothers you about catholicism? Assuming you don’t even identify with catholicism at all, why be bothered?

Is it your catholic relatives or friends? Is it that you think they may be spiritually lost? Is it the very exsistance of catholicism?

See, I don’t think so. I think every non-catholic that looks at a catholic knows that person is devoted and on the path to salvation. What I don’t know is beyond that, what’s your beef?

For instance, my parents are Baptist. You know what I think about that? Nothing. Nada. Zilch. I never think about it at all. I don’t think about them being Baptist or the Baptist faith as it compares to catholicism. The only time the differences cross my mind is here on this forum and I don’t relate that to any of the personal relationships I have with Protestants. But I do wonder what they think about me and my faith.

If possible I’d like to keep this friendly. Let’s be genuine and compassionate, k?

So here we go…

 

[O.S.Luke]

Closed communion to the repentant baptized.

I could never in good conscience be a priest and not be able to offer the sacrament to a repentant baptized Christian, or be a Catholic lay person who could not have a relative or friend visiting at my parish and receive the Body and Blood of Christ.

To me, it would be akin to starving someone, and I would fear my Maker asking me on the Day of Judgment why I denied Christ from one of His children.

I know all of the ecclesial, liturgical and sacrament arguments to this; I just don’t think that they hold water. However, I respect the Roman Catholic stance on the issue. I just cannot embrace it in good conscience and conviction.

O+

 

[happilycatholic]

Closed communion to the repentant baptized.

I could never in good conscience be a priest and not be able to offer the sacrament to a repentant baptized Christian, or be a Catholic lay person who could not have a relative or friend visiting at my parish and receive the Body and Blood of Christ.

To me, it would be akin to starving someone, and I would fear my Maker asking me on the Day of Judgment why I denied Christ from one of His children.

I know all of the ecclesial, liturgical and sacrament arguments to this; I just don’t think that they hold water. However, I respect the Roman Catholic stance on the issue. I just cannot embrace it in good conscience and conviction.

O+

This is one of those things I too have a hard time with. I absolutely understand why, it being a sacrament and all, but I do struggle with it. I just approach it like a parent doing what is best for a child. I may not understand, but I trust.

Are you not comfortable with the aspect of putting a soul in mortal danger if that soul is not saved and receives the Body and Blood of Christ? (genuine, not sarcastic) Even Protestant churches close communion to all who are not saved. Could this be exponential to that? I’m interested in hearing your thoughts on this aspect.

Good one! This is one I don’t hear too often and it is akin to the sacrament of the sick as well. I sure wish I could have had that for my grandmother who was not catholic, but a saint just the same!

HC

 

[O.S.Luke]

Are you not comfortable with the aspect of putting a soul in mortal danger if that soul is not saved and receives the Body and Blood of Christ? (genuine, not sarcastic) Even Protestant churches close communion to all who are not saved. Could this be exponential to that? I’m interested in hearing your thoughts on this aspect.

As I said in my post, a repentant baptized Christian. The Eucharist should ever be a “y’all come.” Baptism, confession and repentance of sin should always be prerequisites.

O+

 

[Publisher]

I’m not sure that anything relly “bugs” me aboutr Catholicism…I simply do not find it’s claims to be persuasive.

I guess if one thing I most disagree with would be it’s belief that I need someone to act on my behalf before God. Through Christ I have access to God already…I need no one performing a ritual on my behalf to assure or offer God’s acceptance. I share in Christ’s priesthood already and can approach God directly without any other Advocate or intermediary. I don’t need any one performing a ritual on my behalf to gain grace…or offering something on my behalf…it has been offered and is continually being offered before the Father through Christ’s Living Presence already.

I have found solace among Friends…for those who find peace and well being by participating in “outward forms”…I have no quarrel…it is the Reality of the “outward forms” that we both seek…and I believe we both find.

 

[happilycatholic]

As I said in my post, a repentant baptized Christian. The Eucharist should ever be a “y’all come.” Baptism, confession and repentance of sin should always be prerequisites.

O+

Sorry about that. I wasn’t clear in the intent of my reference.

What I was saying is that if the Church is to do it’s best to not offer the Body and Blood to the unsaved, then could it be that their doctrine of only offering the Body and Blood to the catholic saved is just another failsafe to that? I mean that’s way over simplifying the issue, but if the Church offers the Body and Blood to members only, then it presumably does it’s very best to uphold its resposibility to believers and to God.

Subtracting all the canon and doctrine and all that stuff, isn’t that essentially what the goal is? I don’t think it’s meant to be exclusionary on its face, the outcome is indidental (not to minimalize the issue).

HC

 

[reteeks21]

Well, it isn’t Catholicism that bugs me. It is some catholics who say things that aren’t true. When the OSAS issue comes up here I constantly see where protestants are lumped into the “I can do whatever I want, whenever I want, and for as long as I want and still be saved” category. That is a complete falsehood, and it seems that when some of us try and refute that we are ignored. I don’t know if those that say that are ill-informed or if they know that isn’t correct and persist in it, but either way pushing that assumption needs to stop. Some protestants (and some catholics) may act that way but they obviously haven’t checked what scripture says about checking your neck when it comes to you relationship with Christ.

In fact any honest protestants will tell you that sticking with sin without repenting and seeking to fix the problem is flat out wrong. Just like the many protestants who assume catholics are saved by their works, those catholics who hold to the idea that I have mentioned need to learn otherwise.

 

[happilycatholic]

I’m not sure that anything relly “bugs” me aboutr Catholicism…I simply do not find it’s claims to be persuasive.

I guess if one thing I most disagree with would be it’s belief that I need someone to act on my behalf before God. Through Christ I have access to God already…I need no one performing a ritual on my behalf to assure or offer God’s acceptance. I share in Christ’s priesthood already and can approach God directly without any other Advocate or intermediary. I don’t need any one performing a ritual on my behalf to gain grace…or offering something on my behalf…it has been offered and is continually being offered before the Father through Christ’s Living Presence already.

I have found solace among Friends…for those who find peace and well being by participating in “outward forms”…I have no quarrel…it is the Reality of the “outward forms” that we both seek…and I believe we both find.

You are like me. As long as we walk the same path, why not keep each other company!

 

[reteeks21]

Sorry about that. I wasn’t clear in the intent of my reference.

***What I was saying is that if the Church is to do it’s best to not offer the Body and Blood to the unsaved, then could it be that their doctrine of only offering the Body and Blood to the catholic saved is just another failsafe to that? *** I mean that’s way over simplifying the issue, but if the Church offers the Body and Blood to members only, then it presumably does it’s very best to uphold its resposibility to believers and to God.

Subtracting all the canon and doctrine and all that stuff, isn’t that essentially what the goal is? I don’t think it’s meant to be exclusionary on its face, the outcome is indidental (not to minimalize the issue).

HC

But how is anyone to know that a catholic who is recieving it IS saved? I guess the discussion could go both ways on this one. It’s almost like a Catch-22

 

[happilycatholic]

Well, it isn’t Catholicism that bugs me. It is some catholics who say things that aren’t true. When the OSAS issue comes up here I constantly see where protestants are lumped into the “I can do whatever I want, whenever I want, and for as long as I want and still be saved” category. That is a complete falsehood, and it seems that when some of us try and refute that we are ignored. I don’t know if those that say that are ill-informed or if they know that isn’t correct and persist in it, but either way pushing that assumption needs to stop. Some protestants (and some catholics) may act that way but they obviously haven’t checked what scripture says about checking your neck when it comes to you relationship with Christ.

In fact any honest protestants will tell you that sticking with sin without repenting and seeking to fix the problem is flat out wrong. Just like the many protestants who assume catholics are saved by their works, those catholics who hold to the idea that I have mentioned need to learn otherwise.

I know what you mean. I think sometimes we can believe the exact same thing and call it something different and that’s where the problem starts.

Some folks on here are just plain angry. I think this is therapy for some. That’s okay I guess but I would LOVE to see more charity.

HC

 

[Steadfast]

The things that bug me the most are not institutional. My interest and rejection of those things I disagree with her about are few and pretty cool and academic really.

The major one would be, I guess, her particular method of ordering and government. I understand how it came about but I see nothing in the Bible to support it and I consider it an obstacle not only to real unity but to the “freedom for which we have been made free”.

 

[happilycatholic]

But how is anyone to know that a catholic who is recieving it IS saved? I guess the discussion could go both ways on this one. It’s almost like a Catch-22

Or that they’re catholic. We don’t hand over our Baptism certificates when we receive. (I’m going to get pummeled if I’m not careful) I really do see both sides of the fence.

I know, it’s kinda moot really. But it’s a cover your boohiney kinda deal. The Church at least won’t be responsible for it, the individual will.

Actually, any person could come into our Church and receive. There is no way for a priest to know a single thing about you. There are no questions asked, ever. If you as an individual believe you are doing the right thing, do it. It is the individual that chooses not to. Why do you suppose that is?

HC

 

[happilycatholic]

The things that bug me the most are not institutional. My interest and rejection of those things I disagree with her about are few and pretty cool and academic really.

The major one would be, I guess, her particular method of ordering and government. I understand how it came about but I see nothing in the Bible to support it and I consider it an obstacle not only to real unity but to the “freedom for which we have been made free”.

Eew, government is such an ugly word. I hate to think of it that way. But lets. If you have an entity with no “government” what happens? Rules get made outside of the intent of the entity. There has to be someone in authority and below that, many someones at checkpoints along the way. Otherwise, there is just chaos from the top down. Sometimes it happens anyway.

I rather like the form of authority in the Church. It gives me some sort of secure notion that there are folks smarter and more experienced with centuries-old tools at the helm. I don’t ‘have’ to go to them, but if I need to, they are there. They are always there with the collective intent of “getting it right every single time”. I guess that’s arguable on some levels, but not with me. That’s where faith comes in and a belief in the path I’ve chosen.

I like that.

 

[sambos671]

Good Day! Peace Be With You and Yours!

Okay, I know all the cookie-cutter answers to this question:

1. Primacy of the Pope
2. Adoration of Mary
3. Transubstatiation
4. Veneration of Saints
5. Confession to a priest

etc. etc.

But none of these things actually affects you unless you are catholic or thinking of becoming catholic. What I want to know and from whom is this:

From all the non-catholic and those not even contemplating converting, what bothers you about catholicism? Assuming you don’t even identify with catholicism at all, why be bothered?

Is it your catholic relatives or friends? Is it that you think they may be spiritually lost? Is it the very exsistance of catholicism?

See, I don’t think so. I think every non-catholic that looks at a catholic knows that person is devoted and on the path to salvation. What I don’t know is beyond that, what’s your beef?

For instance, my parents are Baptist. You know what I think about that? Nothing. Nada. Zilch. I never think about it at all. I don’t think about them being Baptist or the Baptist faith as it compares to catholicism. The only time the differences cross my mind is here on this forum and I don’t relate that to any of the personal relationships I have with Protestants. But I do wonder what they think about me and my faith.

If possible I’d like to keep this friendly. Let’s be genuine and compassionate, k?

So here we go…

Are those my only choices? Can I say things like candles or musty churches or I don’t like their choirs or their choice of praise songs? How about I just don’t like Rome. I mean the city is busy, no one knows how to drive without killing people it smells and way to many begars on the streets. If the Vatican were closer to Montecarlo I’d be catholic in a heart beat. or Priest should wear purple more often? Can we say things like that? Just curious.

 

[Steadfast]

I really didn’t mean to load the expression, I didn’t mean anything more than something like “methodology of leadership” or polity or administration.

 

[reteeks21]

I know what you mean. I think sometimes we can believe the exact same thing and call it something different and that’s where the problem starts.

Some folks on here are just plain angry. I think this is therapy for some. That’s okay I guess but I would LOVE to see more charity.

HC

Praise the Lord, somebody else said it! Sometimes I believe we have more in common than we think we do. I think I’m gonna pass out now!

 

[happilycatholic]

Are those my only choices? Can I say things like candles or musty churches or I don’t like their choirs or their choice of praise songs? How about I just don’t like Rome. I mean the city is busy, no one knows how to drive without killing people it smells and way to many begars on the streets. If the Vatican were closer to Montecarlo I’d be catholic in a heart beat. or Priest should wear purple more often? Can we say things like that? Just curious.

Ha! That’s fair. I’m quite disappointed to hear that Rome smells though. I wish the priests would wear purple more often too. And I wish the color for ordinary time was say, coral. I get tired of green, green, green.

Hey, my church isn’t musty…yet!

Oh well.

 

[happilycatholic]

Praise the Lord, somebody else said it! Sometimes I believe we have more in common than we think we do. I think I’m gonna pass out now!

It’s weird. We first pick something that makes us different, unique that separates us from everyone else. We then call that correct. Once that’s established we then proceed to defend oursleves by saying that we are the same as everyone else and should be treated so. However, that’s now impossible because we’ve alienated everyone by telling them they’re wrong because they are different from us. We are all alone in the end. It’s what we wanted, right?

It’s a self-created conundrum.

 

[sambos671]

Ha! That’s fair. I’m quite disappointed to hear that Rome smells though. I wish the priests would wear purple more often too. And I wish the color for ordinary time was say, coral. I get tired of green, green, green.

Hey, my church isn’t musty…yet!

Oh well.

And what’s the deal with Plaid skirts at parochial school? When I went we had to wear black schools except for PE where we could wear tennis shoes (sneakers for certain parts of the States and Trainers for our English friends.) And as far as your church give it a few years! Anyway that about covers it. God Bless.

 

[Steadfast]

There is even a word for it:

Odium Theologicum