Catholicism?

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alfieo

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Ok, my last question was reported, so ill try to word this a little differently. I am agnostic, i live with a catholic, and he is constantly preaching at me, and how catholicism is the only correct belief, and not just that, but how traditional catholicism, i.e. in Latin, is the only true version. He does not even speak Latin, but he still goes to mass, and always preaches about how its more authentic than modern masses in English. He also preaches about how evolution is false. I am fed up with this, are their any arguements i can use to get him to keep his stupid ideas to himself?
 
Mass in Latin is not the only “true” version, although you will not get any complaints from me if it is in Latin. Whether or not evolution is false is totally the realm of science and the Church does not pretend otherwise. Evolution, believe it or not, is actually reconcilable with Catholicism, in the sense that yes, perhaps our bodies are descended from whatever evolutionally, but according to God’s intent, and that our souls are His doing.

As far as to him saying that Catholicism is the truth, I’m afraid I can’t recommend anything, because, well, he’s right. I think he’s going about it in a bad way, telling you, that is. How about you just sit down with him and talk sincerely.
 
Although I agree with many of his ideas (I too love the Latin Mass but I accept the legitimacy of the reform of Paul VI and the Eastern rites), I have to agree with you that unsolicitated preaching is an annoyance.
 
“stupid ideas”?

He’s annoying, and you’re insulting.

Why do you list your religion as “Catholic”?
 
@OP: Pilate condemned Jesus using three languages and those where Latin, Greek and Hebrew, which is why we have them in the Litrugy. Calling it the “Latin Mass” would be an incorrect statement. 😉 I would also tell your friend, both forms of the Mass are legitimate and to say otherwise would be an error. As for evolution the Church has deemed it ok for Catholics to beleive in it since it does not oppose Catholic doctrine which requires the belief in the immediate creation of Adams soul, in the image of God.
 
You could leave his house. That way you couldn’t hear him.
 
Marocchino said:
Although I agree with many of his ideas (I too love the Latin Mass but I accept the legitimacy of the reform of Paul VI and the Eastern rites), I have to agree with you that unsolicitated preaching is an annoyance.
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I would think it far better for him to live a joy-filled, chaste life and show the OP by his example.
 
You could kindly ask him how he would feel if you constantly preached your beliefs.
He shouldn’t impose his beliefs on you,

but if you have questions or you say something that he is bound to refute, then he should at that time.

Remind him of what the great preaching Friar, St Francis of Assisi said:
Preach always and if necessary use words",
in other words, give witness of the faith by how he lives charity, by how authentically he lives what he believes
 
You know what would be a kinda neat thing to try for all parties involved?

If at least once a week, you both sat down with a copy of St. Augustine’s “Confessions…” and read a few pages and then just discussed what you took from it, and build on these concepts as you go through the book.

He’ll see it as you studying a Catholic Saint and him getting to help you along, you will get the cool benefit of getting to discuss with another person a classic work of literature for anyone, not just Catholics, and the both of you will get a chance to work out your differences together and who knows, maybe even bond a little.

The man was classically trained in Greek philosophy, he’ll wrack your nugget.
 
alfieo said:
Ok, my last question was reported, so ill try to word this a little differently. I am agnostic, i live with a catholic, and he is constantly preaching at me, and how catholicism is the only correct belief, and not just that, but how traditional catholicism, i.e. in Latin, is the only true version. He does not even speak Latin, but he still goes to mass, and always preaches about how its more authentic than modern masses in English. He also preaches about how evolution is false. I am fed up with this, are their any arguements i can use to get him to keep his stupid ideas to himself?
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Hello Alfeo, and welcome to Catholic Answers Forum. I’m glad you’ve decided to post here in your personal quest for Answers. I’ll give my opinion/2 cents as it will as a young buck whose recently discovered and serves somewhat the EF. I grew up mostly doing the Ordinary Form (the most common form of Latin Rite Mass in most parishes) so I’ve seen both ends.

Firstly, it sounds like from the body of your text, he’s being a little forceful with his push of the Catholic faith. Now personally, I kinda do that wth conversations with people because I am devoted to my faith joyfully so I tend now to interject things into conversations more, However, there’s a better way to do that in a Charitable manner and this guy is sounding like those pushy Bible Christians/Jehovah’s witnesses who do door to door evangelization.

Specifically that Catholicism is the “only way” Well this is slightly tricky. Yes, it has always stood and true faithful Catholics believe that the Catholic Faith is the way to spiritual salvation as Jesus himself said He is the Way the Truth and the Life. Also he came to fulfill the faith, and has essentially “completed” it in the “New Covenant” vs. Judaism which is still the “Old Covenant” as it were as a crude summation. While there are elements of truth in other faiths, and even in pursuals of things like truth, beauty, philosophy, etc. They alone cannot complete that salvation and the mechanisms of other faiths can be faulty. There is something the Church has said with regard to other faiths or people not of those faiths. It’s not dogma or doctrine, but there is a Vatican II document on that topic called “Nostra Aetate”. Well worth a read. So are the works of our Pope, Benedict. You might like his Assisi III speech and he wrote a good book as a Cardinal called “Introduction to Christianity”.

However, those truths in such faiths and pursuals I mentioned can lead ultimately to the Catholic Faith after one seeks answers through their own study or a very good friend, teacher, etc. helps one to make logical sense of what we have in this finite world. Maybe your friend’s influence has caused you to take this first step and hence why you are posting on here. If a Catholic tells you that “all faiths are equal” this is false and is called syncretism. If you read the Catechism of the Catholic Church (the book with all our core beliefs and the whys of them) syncretism will not be found there. In fact if you are curious about specific beliefs of Catholicism, The CCC and the youth-based version called the YouCat (with question and answer format of prior Catechisms) is a good place to start.

As for the Latin Mass Part, Your Friend is DAMN WRONG!!! There are two forms of the Latin Rite of the Mass, the Ordinary Form (OF) and the Extraordinary Form (EF). The EF is the form of the Mass that was practiced before 1965 with almost everything in Latin and much more symbols, actions, etc. The OF is the Mass (also known as the Pauline/ Paul VI Mass/New Mass) was brought in and has become the standard Catholic Mass. Now, Pope Paul VI commisioned this, and when a Mass is celebrated in an accepted Rite (including others such as the Byzantine Rite, Mozambric Rite, Ambrosian Rite etc.) with the appropriate Form, Matter, and Intention, by a Priest with Valid and Licit faculties (including being under the governance of an Ordinary/Bishop), THAT MASS IS SACRAMENTALLY VALID!!! So what your friend is saying is false and has bought into a heretical/schismatical notion of the NO as an abomination. This sadly is a notion being practiced by sedevacantist (as in there has been no valid pope since John XXIII) groups, some independent Traditional Catholic societies, and the Soceity of St. Pius X depending what chapel one belongs to (though generally their laity and a number of their priests do acknolwedge the NO as being a valid form of the Mass. That’s not to say their publically accessible content shares those opinions.) For him to say that he is dissenting against the Magisterium of the Church and therefore he himself is possibly causing his own schism. It’s those beliefs as to why there’s a warning with going to SSPX masses to fulfill the Sunday Mass obligation (that is going period, not consuming the Eucharist).

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There is however, one thing that may be driving your friend’s compulsion about the Latin Mass. Sadly after the 40+ years in Vatican II, many things came to a head in the institutional Church, spiritually, socially, psychologically, etc. Over time our role models, teachers, priests, etc. have not done a great job in terms of catechesis (teaching the essentials of the faith) and defending the faith against attacks (apologetics, which of course Catholic Answers has valiantly set out to rectify!). The faith overall weakened and many people stopped living their Catholic faith genuinely including faith obligations. Unfortunately, a lot of this has happened surrounding the Novus Ordo mass. Furthermore in past (more in the USA and Europe, not so much Canada), priests went a little haywire with experimenting with the liturgy (just do a YouTube search for Catholic mass abuses or liturgical abuses) so it really brought the NO down many notches in certain people’s minds. Not to mention practices such as some New Age Theology stuff has sneaked into retreats and such.

While things are picking up in the average parishes with OF masses (e.g. some catechesis classses, youth ministries, returns of Eucharistic Adoration and other traditional Devotions), as a whole things must improve in homiletics and encouraging others to partake in Sunday Mass and Sacraments. Therefore, many people have and my generation are starting to flock over to the EF/TLM for spiritual nourishment. I have invested a lot in myself in my Novus Ordo parish which is why I haven’t turned EF completely yet, but I’m always keeping things in my mind incase somthering happens between me and my pastor. While no mass is BETTER than one another, and both are sacramentally valid and licit forms of the rite, orverall the EF does do a better job of Catechesis in the homilies and is a more reverent and solemn mass in its atmosphere and even its song choices (Classical Gregorian Chant over “Sing to the Mountains, Sing to the Sea”). Heck even in a homily I got a few weeks ago at an EF with a pitch to donate money to that parish, the priest did some apologetics for “Why a parish building is essential to the Catholic Faith” and to counter that video some young-faced teen is putting out on YouTube about “I love Jesus but hate religion.”

And evolution? Well this is a tough one also as in there’s no absolute “This is the final position answer”. You can actually be a Catholic and believe in evolution, so long as you do not deny the Creator’s (God’s) hand in Creation. See we Catholics treat the Genesis accounts of Creation as contextual. We do not take the Bible literally unlike Fundamentalist Christians (a.k.a. Sola Scriptura Christians). We also aren’t technophobes and shun technological and scientific advances (Gallileo’s another topic another day. I’m just adressing your concern at hand today.) In fact the Vatican has a number of scientists under its belt and even holds certain kinds of research symposiums in Rome. And the minute (kay more like the hour) they get wind of a scientific-moral-ethical issue, the Curia usually releases a document on the issue that can now be read publically on www.vatican.va.

Furthermore, those “7” years could have meant “7 million years.” God can make something instantaeous with His power of creation “Ex nihilo” (out of nothing) as it were, but hey if He took his time with us and evolved us out of apes, so be it. It’s His will, His hand guiding creation, so He’ll take whatever time he desires in our final physical form. Your friend might be rejecting evolution becuase many secular people, atheists, scientists, etc. have thrown that in Christians and Catholics faces to shut them up from practicing our faiths. So this is a counter-rejection as it will. However, if it is of the same vein as the Latin Mass issue, he might be in a irrecular Catholic society or a schismatic sect (e.g. sedevacantism) that is pretty much nothing after Vatican-II in its teaching and such and threatens things NOT IN CANON LAW under pangs of venial, grave, or mortal sin. BTW, I think there is a section on Adam and Eve and Evolution/Creation in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I also think that this site’s magazine “Catholic Answers” (formerly This Rock) covered this issue way in the past, but the free archives only go back to 2006 on here so I’m not 100% on that. Anyone from CA here of the Moderators can chime in.

BTW, my opinion only, this guy sounds like bad news and is making us Traditional Catholics look bad. If you have questions about the faith, it might be better to go to another good, true practicing Catholic for general Concerns (as in they go to Mass on Sunday, believe in the Magisterium of the Church and say yes to its teachings including the heavy hitters like abortion and contraception, and pray a lot and do charitable works). If you are specifically seeking EF/TLM questions, It might be better to seek them here or people who are associated with any of the following: FSSP, ICKSP, Canons of St. John Regular, Una Voce, Juventutem, Independent or Diocesan priests who say the TLM/EF. Finally, you should tell him that you don’t appreciate how he’s going about evangelizing you, and that it should be done in the light of the Catholic Faith according to the Magisterium of the Church, and that his approach is actually making you more Anti-Catholic and Anti-Trad/EF/TLM as it were. If he’s going to do it he should do it with charity and according to the Catechism’s teachings. Worse come to worse you could throw the Catechism at him and say “Read it!” LOL 😛

I hope this helps because I hate it when some “trads” sopil the bunch for the rest of us. YCRCM.
 
Stupid ideas? Nice. Please mind your manners to start with if you want a respectful discussion here.
 
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