Catholics accused of worshiping Mary

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NonDenom:
Hi
There is one huge difference between what you are saying and what I’m saying. I will go and ask my Wife face to face to pray for me, now if I were to kneel before a picture of her and say “Dear Wife, I ask that you…” You would think I’m a wacko. There is a ton of difference between asking someone to pray FOR you, and praying TO someone.
Thanks
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Why is it different? We go to Mary to ask her to Pray for us. Is it just because we have a Prayer reserved for her, that makes you think it is worshp? Is the ack of standing, bowing and kneeling all you are concerned about? The ack of showing outward signs of affection toward Mary started along time ago. All the disciples payed Mary the honor that She deserves. They bowed and kneeled at her very feet. Did they worship her? No they did not. Why? Because they knew who the Lord and Savior was and is.

I hear all the time on TV, protesttant ministers asking people to join them in Prayer. Why is that? I thought that all protestants have to do is pray for themselves with no help from anyone one else? Can can you tell me how is that different?
 
On my way:
Why is it different? We go to Mary to ask her to Pray for us. Is it just because we have a Prayer reserved for her, that makes you think it is worshp? Is the ack of standing, bowing and kneeling all you are concerned about? The ack of showing outward signs of affection toward Mary started along time ago. All the disciples payed Mary the honor that She deserves. They bowed and kneeled at her very feet. Did they worship her? No they did not. Why? Because they knew who the Lord and Savior was and is.

I hear all the time on TV, protesttant ministers asking people to join them in Prayer. Why is that? I thought that all protestants have to do is pray for themselves with no help from anyone one else? Can can you tell me how is that different?
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I personally think it is okay to pray to/with/for Mary and the saints (especially Mary for she is our spiritual mother, and the 4th commandment tells us to honor our mother and father.) 😉

This has nothing to do with worship.
 
Singinbeauty, I don’t understand how you can say, “I do not believe that those in Heaven or Hell can hear us or interact with us.” Why don’t you beleive that those in Heaven can hear us or interact with us? Those who are in heaven with Jesus are very much alive if not more alive then we are. Those who are in hell can still hear us, but there is no way they are going to be saved from hell.

Jesus interacts with me everyday, as well as you and everybody else. St. Paul tells me everyday that Jesus is the only way to go and with Him (Jesus) everything is going to be alright. My little Girl who at the age of 1 had heart surgury and suffered a stroke has many angels and saints that interact with her everyday. I understand that God is almighty and through Him everything and anything is possible, but with the help of all the people who Jesus intrusted His faith to, don’t you think that their prayers for us will be much stronger. I’m not saying any Prayers that I do won’t be answered but Jesus trusted all the disciples and his own Mother to protect and guide us when HE died. Remember when Jesus died it was not Himself physically who thought us, it was HIS Spirit through others who thought us. They must be worth something if Jesus trusted them. I have my guardian angel with me everyday as well as my daughter.
 
ok, this thread is getting long… lol

but, here is something i haven’t seen yet, when discussing
our asking the saints in heaven to pray for us… to offer our
prayers to God…

Rev. 5: ( KJV )
7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand
of him that sat upon the throne.
8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and
four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having
every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours,
which are the prayers of saints.

elders offering the prayers of saints to
the Lord… we are the saints, those are our prayers being
offered…

🙂
 
As a parent I love it when my kids seek support from one another (as rare as that might be 😃 ). Wouldn’t God?

If intercessory prayer is as powerful as scripture says it is, and if “the prayers of a righteous man availeth much (James 5:16)” why would God NOT allow the very most righteous people (those in heaven) to pray for those on earth?

In Christ,
Nancy 🙂
 
E.E.N.S.:
I personally think it is okay to pray to/with/for Mary and the saints (especially Mary for she is our spiritual mother, and the 4th commandment tells us to honor our mother and father.) 😉

This has nothing to do with worship.
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I understand the difference between honor and worship. I honor my TKD instructor and I worship God. Sorry if I made you think I was Protestant. 😃
 
On my way:
Singinbeauty, I don’t understand how you can say, “I do not believe that those in Heaven or Hell can hear us or interact with us.” Why don’t you beleive that those in Heaven can hear us or interact with us? Those who are in heaven with Jesus are very much alive if not more alive then we are. Those who are in hell can still hear us, but there is no way they are going to be saved from hell.

To say that those in heaven don’t interact with us is well, idiotic. Jesus interacts with me everyday, as well as you and everybody else. St. Paul tells me everyday that Jesus is the only way to go and with Him (Jesus) everything is going to be alright. My little Girl who at the age of 1 had heart surgury and suffered a stroke has many angles and saints that interact with her everyday. I understand that God is almighty and through Him everything and anything is possible, but with the help of all the people who Jesus intrusted His faith to, don’t you think that their prayers for us will be much stronger. I’m not saying any Prayers that I do won’t be answered but Jesus trusted all the disciples and his own Mother to protect and guide us when HE died. Remember when Jesus died it was not Himself physically who thought us, it was HIS Spirit through others who thought us. They must be worth something if Jesus trusted them. I have my guardian angel with me everyday as well as my daughter.
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And yet again my beliefs are called ‘idiotic’. You know, I don’t do that to you so I wish that those who do do it would stop. Can you people (going on a little rant here warning) please stop calling my core beliefs ‘idiotic’ ‘stupid’ ‘wrong’ ‘nothing’ ‘anti-catholic’ ‘ignorant’ or even ‘evil’? I did not come to my beliefs lightly. These beliefs define ME and who I see myself in Christ so for you to tell me that my belief is ‘idiotic’ is telling me that I am an ‘idiot’. This just makes me want to shut my ears to anything you have to say because YOU are NOT speaking in love. It is hateful and uncharitable to tell someone that their ideals or core beliefs are ‘idiotic’. I have not come on here and told anyone that any of the catholic beliefs that I do not agree with are ‘idiotic’ or ‘stupid’ but it has happened more than a couple of times to me just on this board alone. I know not everyone thinks this way and I am grateful for this but those of you who do… I ask you ‘If you can’t say something nice DON’T say anything at all!’

Ok… sigh rant over…
 
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Brendan:
If you understand that the noun “prayer” in it’s primary form, signifies a “request”, what exactly is your problem with the “Hail Mary”
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My respect for Mary, much like my respect for Abraham, Moses, Daniel, David and countless others, resides within my heart. I don’t pray to Moses. I don’t pray to Abraham. I don’t pray to Mary. I don’t pray to Peter. I don’t pray to Paul. I don’t pray to Thomas.

It’s not because I don’t like them or that I think they didn’t live great lives. I would just prefer to pray to God. I know that nobody would is either a Protestant or a Catholic would call me wrong for praying to God, so I go with that.

My Advocate with the Father is my Lord and Savior, Jesus, so Jesus is my Rock. I pray to God in the name of Jesus. By doing this, I not only avoid any hint of breaking the 1st Commandment, but I also avoid even the appearance of worshipping Mary or the Saints.

Time and time again, Catholics on these forums have claimed that they don’t worship Mary and the Saints. Yet, as someone pointed out earlier, there are many prayers out there that paint a clear picture of worship to these figures.

Some assert that the Hail Mary comes directly from the Bible. Well, that’s half true. The second half is the part that comes under scrutiny. To get into the details, I’d probably need to start a new thread, but like I said, I can avoid prayers like the Hail Mary (and praying the Rosary) and stick to prayers that are directed at the Lord.

I’m not violating any Commandments and I have a clearer conscience. Mary will forever be honored in my heart as an obedient servant of God. The Saints will forever be honored in my heart for their very important contributions to Christianity. Catholics say that they don’t worship Mary or the Saints? Well, neither do I.
 
(removed quote of rant)
You should see what happens to Catholics when they attempt to participate on a protestant forum. They get lambasted and belittled by the majority of protestants then kicked off the forum by the moderators for politely stating their beliefs! :bigyikes:

But seriously, (edited) was a poor choice of words and I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive him. :love:
 
Singinbeauty. Did I come out and say that you are a Idiot. No I did not. If I do something stupid, does that make me stupid. No it does not. I in no way was saying that you are an idiot. Out of my whole post all you highlighted and commented on was the part that had the word idiotic in it. You obviously missed the whole point.

You are not an idiot, I said the statement you said was idiotic. If you want to take it and blow it way out of proportion then it’s fine with me. But when I used that word, I was in no way calling you an idiot. There obviouly is a sensitivity issue here so I will try to be more carefull when addressing you or anyone else.

Just remember this when someone says that I did something dumb or stupid, does not make me dumb or stupid. One more thing I don’t pull punches. If I wanted to call you an idiot I would have.
 
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Sorry you had to deal with that! No one should be calling anyone names here.

In Christ,
Nancy 🙂
 
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ChristianWAB:
My respect for Mary, much like my respect for Abraham, Moses, Daniel, David and countless others, resides within my heart. I don’t pray to Moses. I don’t pray to Abraham. I don’t pray to Mary. I don’t pray to Peter. I don’t pray to Paul. I don’t pray to Thomas.

It’s not because I don’t like them or that I think they didn’t live great lives. I would just prefer to pray to God.
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You’re not alone. Asking someone to pray for you is not a requirement, far as I know. 🙂

In Christ,
Nancy 🙂
 
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Singinbeauty:
Again and again in my research of the bible I see countless times where someone prayed for someone else or a whole country. So yes, we are supposed to be praying to God for others and asking others to pray for us. Not so much that the more we have praying for something the more likely it’s going to happen but it’s more of a comfort for us to know that there are others who care so much about us that they join us in prayer to our God when we are in times of need. BUT I do not, in the whole search of the bible I have done, see any time where someone has asked another who has passed on from this earth for help praying for something. In times when anyone is alone and praying the only person they address is GOD. If we are to ask those who have passed on to pray for us then WHY wouldn’t the ancients have done it?

I think that once we pass on from this earth our job is done. We are in Heaven with the Almighty God and our days are spent worshipping Him and rejoicing in our peace. I do not believe that those in Heaven or Hell can hear us or interact with us. 🙂
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Rev 5: (KJV)
7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

this sounds like the elders, in heaven, offering the prayers of
saints, like us, to the Lord…

🙂
 
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ChristianWAB:
I’m not violating any Commandments and I have a clearer conscience. Mary will forever be honored in my heart as an obedient servant of God. The Saints will forever be **honored **in my heart for their very important contributions to Christianity. Catholics say that they don’t worship Mary or the Saints? Well, neither do I.
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Bravo! Catholics don’t violate any commandment either because we honor “The Mother of God” and the saints–not worship them. Same as you! We have much in common! 🙂
 
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ChristianWAB:
My respect for Mary, much like my respect for Abraham, Moses, Daniel, David and countless others, resides within my heart. I don’t pray to Moses. I don’t pray to Abraham. I don’t pray to Mary. I don’t pray to Peter. I don’t pray to Paul. I don’t pray to Thomas.
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Have you ever asked anyone for anything? Anything at all? I believe that you stated that you were married, therefore at one point you asked your wife to marry you. GUess what you prayed to her. The word pray only means to ask.
 
On my way:
Singinbeauty. Did I come out and say that you are a Idiot. No I did not. If I do something stupid, does that make me stupid. No it does not. I in no way was saying that you are an idiot. Out of my whole post all you highlighted and commented on was the part that had the word idiotic in it. You obviously missed the whole point.

You are not an idiot, I said the statement you said was idiotic. If you want to take it and blow it way out of proportion then it’s fine with me. But when I used that word, I was in no way calling you an idiot. There obviouly is a sensitivity issue here so I will try to be more carefull when addressing you or anyone else.

Just remember this when someone says that I did something dumb or stupid, does not make me dumb or stupid. One more thing I don’t pull punches. If I wanted to call you an idiot I would have.
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Ok, I am praying right now that God gives me the right words to say because my blood is boiling right now. A little lesson when talking to others about their beliefs… when you call their beliefs idiotic you are calling THEM idiotic. It’s not that you said I did something stupid or idiotic you said that what I believed was idiotic.

Let me say this again… What we believe defines who we are. It is what touches us in our core, our soul. So when you say that my belief is idiotic you are cutting to my soul and I don’t appreciate it.

And yes, I highlighted your ONE comment because that is as far as I got. I didn’t read any further because when someone tells me my belief is idiotic I tend to not want to listen…
 
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Catholic4aReasn:
Sorry you had to deal with that! No one should be calling anyone names here.

In Christ,
Nancy 🙂
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Thank you Nancy… I don’t want to be overly-sensitive but I KNOW my beliefs are NOT idiotic… 🙂
 
It’s not. But something important/interesting to think about is this…

When I ask my friend to pray for me, usually they go home and pray for me and I go home and pray for me. However, sometimes, we sit right there and pray together. Some describe asking a Saint for intercession in the same way. As opposed to just asking for intercession, then going your seperate ways, it is described as a beautiful scene of yourself walking hand in hand with the Saint, approaching God’s “throne,” and asking humbly, “Oh Lord, will you do this for us?” It is such a beautiful thing to imagine so great a Christian love that a Saint equates our own needs with their’s. They could just ask God to answer a prayer for them, but no… no they ask, together with us, that He answer our prayer, a prayer for us, a prayer just as meaningful to them as to us. This love, this love that is the embodiment of Christ and the Spirit and all that is God Himself, so greatly touches His heart that our Lord cannot but answer our prayer in such respect for the beauty of it.
 
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Singinbeauty:
Ok, I am praying right now that God gives me the right words to say because my blood is boiling right now.
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"And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses. **Mark **11:25
 
I can see alot of you feel that I directly or indirectly call singinbeauty an “idiot.”

I’ve been told by people on other forums that I said something idiotic, but does that make me an idiot. No it doesn’t. I’ve driven home drunk, stupid move, but does that make me stupid. I’ve given to others in and out of the church, God like action, but does that make me God. No it doesn’t.

Do you guys see that in no way was I calling her an idiot. I’ve read alot of her posts and she is very intelligent. She just made an idiotic statement thats all.

Do I need to go to confession now for using the word idiotic, when it was not used it a hateful and unloving way? I did not use that word to hurt you in anyway.
 
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