Catholics: Am I, as a Protestant, saved?

[johnnyc176]

I do listen to other, more scholarly people, to gain full understanding, but still the full application is up to me.

Such as this one…

patheos.com/blogs/markshea/2013/05/ho-lee-cow-2.html

 

[believerdoc]

for all of you, catholics and protestants alike, i want to share my thoughts and experience with you.

I am a non-catholic. I am a sinner. But i try to live by the commandments given to me in the bible to the best of my ability.

I will worship no one other than god. I will not call anyone father other than god.

I have been baptized in the name of the father, the son, and the holy spirit, and at that time, i promised to live by god’s commandments all the days of my life.

In august 2010, i was very very ill and in a coma. I died and went to heaven. I was enveloped in the purest, whitest light one could ever imagine. I felt nothing but peace, love, and pure joy. I heard god’s voice tell me that it was not my time because he still has work for me to do. Then i saw my husband who told me that i had to go back, but that he would be there waiting for me.

I was in a coma for weeks, and doctors told my family several times that i would not make it. My heart stopped, my kidneys failed, and my breathing stopped–twice. The doctors were able to revive me, twice! I awoke after my brother-in-law (a protestant) prayed over me. I did not remember anything else other than my experience, not what was wrong with me or why i was in icu.

I made a video about my experience so that others will know that god is real, heaven is real. I am determined now to make it my job to tell everyone i meet in person or online that they can be saved by the grace of god because jesus died on the cross for their sins. I tell them that god is a forgiving and merciful god. Through belief, repentence, and faithfulness, they can be saved.

If you wish to watch it, here is the link: youtube.com/watch?v=dv_ierliwvu

i do not put a bunch of rules and regulations on them. I give them the bible to read. I tell them to join a bible-based church so that they can learn and grow in christ.

I do not think i have to join the catholic church in order to be saved because i believe that not one person on this earth has a right to judge me or tell me whether i am saved or not. That is my choice. I do not think catholics are any more righteous than my other brothers and sisters in christ. I do not judge them or feel any animosity toward them. I celebrate their efforts to bring people to god. We, as christians, are all brothers and sisters in christ.

I pray, i fast, and i thank the lord every day for the many blessings he has bestowed upon me. I thank him for the many miracles he has given me in my life. I pray for his forgiveness of my sins, and try not to repeat those sins. I am a sinner, and he knows this. He loves me anyway because he sent his only son to teach us, to show us, and to die for us so that we all may have everlasting life with him. Stay strong in your faith.

My dear friend, it is your undying faith in him that you may be saved. Pray and ask god for forgiveness and your salvation. He is the only one who can grant it to you.

May god bless you and keep you in his loving arms today and for the rest of your life.

:extrahappy:
I am so happy and grateful to be a follower of christ!

amen and amen!!!

 

[kmcarl56]

What I meant by “scholarly people” is theologians who have much more intense study of the Bible than I do, whether Catholic or non-Catholic. It helps me to have a more clear understanding if I widen my spectrum to all Christian scholars.

We all know who the founders of the Christian Church were, and we all know where the Bible came from – the Catholic Church. However, protestants thought that the Catholic Church was too powerful and politically corrupt at that time to adhere to all of God’s commandments in Truth. They also thought that some of the dogmas, rites, and rituals were either interpreted wrong or were corrupted by the leaders of that time or even before. I don’t know. I wasn’t there, but I have been told a lot about how protestants feel about it. There are certain scriptures that can truly be interpreted different ways.

I am not arguing my point well, and I apologize. But to answer the OP question, I have to say that, of course, protestants are saved if they follow the commandments from God as stated in the Bible. For anyone of any religion or denomination, it is ultimately up to God anyway.

Moreover, I hope and pray that this dispute between Catholics and Protestants can be put to rest so that all of us, as Christians (followers of Christ) can work together in praising and glorifying God, and be as one in ministering to those who are lost. After all, we both worship the same living God, we both follow Christ, and we both are working on the same side against Satan. How we do these things may differ, but the end result should be the same, more souls saved and more Christians walking the talk.

May God bless you. I keep learning more and more with every passing day. Thank you.

 

[kmcarl56]

The Second Vatican Council said,

“This Sacred Council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church. Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved.”
(Lumen Gentium 14)
vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html

Is it possible for one who is not visibly in communion with the Church to be saved? Few will deny this because God is able to accomplish everything he wills. However, we have to consider that we are given one life, and at the end of it, we will have to give an account of how we used it. If the Catholic faith was revealed by Christ and the Catholic Church was instituted by Christ yet you set yourself squarely against it, do you think you will be able to claim innocence before God for your ignorance?

I am not ignorant of the purpose for Christ’s Church, which is made up of all faithful Christians; however, I am opposed to some of the dogmas read into original scripture by men throughout the centuries. For some non-Catholics, it seems like people are more concerned with following dogma than they are with having a true and personal relationship with God. After seeing some of the questions posted on this forum, it seems like people are afraid more of offending the Church than they are of offending God.

Is it possible for one who is not visibly in communion with the Church to be saved? I am disabled and cannot drive, nor do I have another way to get to church. However, I do devote my Sundays to watching services on television and in prayer. I miss the fellowship with other Christians, and I miss communion…I miss going to church period. However, at this time, my situation is what it is.

It helps me, though, being involved with this forum and others, so that I can be in fellowship with other people who love the Lord, and continue to learn and grow as a Christian. I learn something new here every day. It is sad what misguided ideas some protestants have of the Catholic Church. It is not intentional on their part. It is just what they have been taught. Thus, some remain ignorant in their complete understanding.

:bible1: The Truth is in the Bible. How we read and understand is hopefully guided by the Holy Spirit. We should also listen to more indepth study by scholarly theologians of the Truth. We can agree or disagree with these scholars at times, that is our free will, but we do not have to take their every word as the one and only Truth.

Thank you all for giving me enlightenment and understanding of the facts, not just hearsay.

May God bless you and keep you in all you do and say today and for the rest of your life.

 

[SteveVH]

I am not ignorant of the purpose for Christ’s Church, which is made up of all faithful Christians; however, I am opposed to some of the dogmas read into original scripture by men throughout the centuries.

Are you aware that these dogmas existed before the New Testament was even written and for nearly 400 years before anyone knew whether or not the writings contained in it were the inspired word of God?

Which Catholic dogmas do you believe were added over the centuries?

For some non-Catholics, it seems like people are more concerned with following dogma than they are with having a true and personal relationship with God.

Well, seeing as “dogma” is divinely revealed truth, it seems appropriate that one who wishes to have a personal relationship with God would adhere to that dogma, the truth divinely revealed by Christ to the Apostles.

Is it possible for one who is not visibly in communion with the Church to be saved?

I am disabled and cannot drive, nor do I have another way to get to church. However, I do devote my Sundays to watching services on television and in prayer. I miss the fellowship with other Christians, and I miss communion…I miss going to church period. However, at this time, my situation is what it is.

It helps me, though, being involved with this forum and others, so that I can be in fellowship with other people who love the Lord, and continue to learn and grow as a Christian. I learn something new here every day. It is sad what misguided ideas some protestants have of the Catholic Church. It is not intentional on their part. It is just what they have been taught. Thus, some remain ignorant in their complete understanding.

You are in my prayers.

God bless.

 

[kmcarl56]

Yes, I am aware of when the New Testament started being written and by whom, and yes, I do believe that the Bible was dictated to men through the Holy Spirit as the Truth from God to man. I am talking about the “dogmas” that came much later as new Church Councils were formed, and changes were made to the “original” dogma of the Church based entirely upon what Jesus created and what the Apostles passed down to the following generations as the Truth.

Centuries have passed and various Popes, Cardinals, Bishops, etc. have created many documents regarding various subject matter addressed in the “original” dogmas, and certain aspects of these writings have been included (added, changed, or deleted) in the theology of the Church as the Gospel Truth. Thus the dogmas have changed over time.

For instance, one is prayer to Mary for intercession to Christ on our behalf. Nowhere in the Bible does it literally say, “Pray to my mother, for she shall intercede for you in prayer.” That idea was an interpretation of a few verses by someone, or a group of people in agreement, to perpetuate that thought.

And what about the rosary, the statues of Mary and the Saints, or having a medallion necklace with a certain saint hanging around your neck and believing it has powers to protect you? Who started those traditions, when, and why? …and on what Biblical basis? I understand that some traditions can be traced directly back to the first Christians, who were for the most part converted Jews. They did, in fact, carry on some, if not most, of the rites and rituals that Jews had adhered to for thousands of years. I do not argue about that. Those instructions were also given to us directly from God.

Curiosity did get the best of me, so I did look up “dogma” in several encyclopedias, and this is the best definition I found.

*Definition of Dogma:

The word dogma (Gr. dogma from dokein) signifies, in the writings of the ancient classical authors, sometimes, an opinion or that which seems true to a person; sometimes, the philosophical doctrines or tenets, and especially the distinctive philosophical doctrines, of a particular school of philosophers (cf. Cic. Ac., ii, 9), and sometimes, a public decree or ordinance, as dogma poieisthai.

In Sacred Scripture it is used, at one time, in the sense of a decree or edict of the civil authority, as in Luke 2:1: “And it came to pass, that in those days there went out a decree [edictum, dogma] from Caesar Augustus” (cf. Acts 17:7; Esther 3:3); at another time, in the sense of an ordinance of the Mosaic Law as in Ephesians 2:15: “Making void the law of commandments contained in decrees” (dogmasin), and again, it is applied to the ordinances or decrees of the first Apostolic Council in Jerusalem: “And as they passed through the cities, they delivered unto them the decrees [dogmata] for to keep, that were decreed by the apostles and ancients who were at Jerusalem” (Acts 16:4).

Among the early Fathers the usage was prevalent of designating as dogmas the doctrines and moral precepts taught or promulgated by the Saviour or by the Apostles; and a distinction was sometimes made between Divine, Apostolical, and ecclesiastical dogmas, according as a doctrine was conceived as having been taught by Christ, by the Apostles, or as having been delivered to the faithful by the Church.

But according to a long-standing usage a dogma is now understood to be a truth appertaining to faith or morals, revealed by God, transmitted from the Apostles in the Scriptures or by tradition, and proposed by the Church for the acceptance of the faithful. It might be described briefly as a revealed truth defined by the Church *— but private revelations do not constitute dogmas, and some theologians confine the word defined to doctrines solemnly defined by the pope or by a general council, while a revealed truth becomes a dogma even when proposed by the Church through her ordinary magisterium or teaching office. A dogma therefore implies a twofold relation: to Divine revelation and to the authoritative teaching of the Church.

Now, am I to assume that every single Church leader since Jesus and the Apostles have strictly adhered to the original meaning and intent of scripture as written, and that each and every one has interpreted the Bible correctly as the Truth as instructed by God through the Holy Spirit, and then entered it correctly into the “original” dogma of the Original Church?

It’s just that I don’t always believe everything I read (except the Bible, of course) so the Catechisms, as such, are other Church leaders’ ideas of what Christ meant and intended for His followers, i.e. their interpretations. This statement is a very general statement, but I do contend that once the Bible was completed and ordained as the absolute Truth, why keep putting more and more rules and regulations on people than are already in the Bible?

This just baffles me. There are already over 400 commandments in the Bible that we are supposed to follow. That is hard enough, as the poor miserable sinners that we are, to comply with. I see people here that ask some very trite questions about what is right or wrong as a Catholic Christian – like where and how to put your hands correctly in prayer, or is it okay to hold hands during Mass, or do you need to make the sign of the cross before and after saying the Rosery. Are these questions really necessary in order to be a faithful Christian? It just seems to me that being a Christian should be much simpler, and not so confusing and demanding. It just seems to me that I should be able to spend more time worshipping God and doing His good work in ministry, than I do in following rules properly.

 

[SteveVH]

Yes, I am aware of when the New Testament started being written and by whom, and yes, I do believe that the Bible was dictated to men through the Holy Spirit as the Truth from God to man. I am talking about the “dogmas” that came much later as new Church Councils were formed, and changes were made to the “original” dogma of the Church based entirely upon what Jesus created and what the Apostles passed down to the following generations as the Truth.

Can you please give an example of a dogma that has changed? Making general, unsupported statements really gets us nowhere. Please cite the dogma that was changed and then we can have a discussion.

Centuries have passed and various Popes, Cardinals, Bishops, etc. have created many documents regarding various subject matter addressed in the “original” dogmas, and certain aspects of these writings have been included (added, changed, or deleted) in the theology of the Church as the Gospel Truth. Thus the dogmas have changed over time.

Maybe we need to define terms so that we can better communicate.

Dogma is the divinely revealed truth given to the Apostles.

Doctrine is the teaching of the Church that flows from the dogma. An example would be the doctrine of the Trinity.

The Dogma is that there is one God, and this God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The Doctrine then explains how this is possible through words such as “Consubstantial”, “Person”, “Being”, “Substance”, etc.

For instance, one is prayer to Mary for intercession to Christ on our behalf. Nowhere in the Bible does it literally say, “Pray to my mother, for she shall intercede for you in prayer.” That idea was an interpretation of a few verses by someone, or a group of people in agreement, to perpetuate that thought.

Can you tell me where in the Bible it says that we should recite the “Sinners Prayer” in order to be saved? Or can you tell me where in the Bible it says that everything we are to believe is found in the Bible?

 

[Jon_S_1]

I wanted to respond to what I see as a few missunderstandings in your post. That said, I appreciate this post and the previous one which both had a charitable and truth seeking tone. It was nice to see a position laid out in such a way without the normal polemics put in. Everyone on these boards can learn from that including me.

I am talking about the “dogmas” that came much later as new Church Councils were formed, and changes were made to the “original” dogma of the Church based entirely upon what Jesus created and what the Apostles passed down to the following generations as the Truth.

I will start here, by saying that you confuse the definition of dogma a bit. As the Catholic Church uses the word, it refers to THE truths that Christ and the Apostles gave us. In order to be considered Dogma, it must have been a truth deposited by Christ and the Apostles.

We do have development of the truths, a classic example is the TRINITY which was given as a dogmatic truth, but our understanding of it continues to this day.

Thus the dogmas have changed over time.

You will need to susbstantiate this claim becasue it is inaccurate regarding dogma. The example of Mary below I will deal with in a second, but for now I will say there are several things to define:

Dogma (Cant Change)- The original truths taught by Jesus and the Disciples
Doctrine(Cant Change)- Teaching of the Church (through councils) based on Dogma (For example: Canon of Scripture, Transubstantiation)
Disciplines (Can Change): Priestly Celibacy, the Rosary, Different Church Prayers, Fasting. etc…

For instance, one is prayer to Mary for intercession to Christ on our behalf. Nowhere in the Bible does it literally say, “Pray to my mother, for she shall intercede for you in prayer.” That idea was an interpretation of a few verses by someone, or a group of people in agreement, to perpetuate that thought.

As I know you are aware no where in the Bible does it literally say God is Triune, but that is not an issue for you. No where in the Bible does it say what books should be in there. No where in the Bible does it say Communion is a pure Symbol, or Baptism is.

Point being all of these things require "a person or group of people in agreement to perpetuate that thought.

We see this being done in the book of Acts when the Council of Jerusalem is conducted and they need to decide how to interpret the teachings of Christ (oral). Should they follow the law or not, circumcise gentiles or not? So a group of people got together and decided the issue.

So the question arises what group of people have the authority to do this?

We can use protestantism as a test case of how not to do it. There is so much disagreement on the fundamentals even such as Baptism.

Jesus said he founded a church, he said hell would not prevail against it, and he gave the church authority which we see exercised in the New Testament. Even the Epistles of the New Testament are examples of this, as they were written with authority to different churches to correct and/or support their practices.

And what about the rosary, the statues of Mary and the Saints, or having a medallion necklace with a certain saint hanging around your neck and believing it has powers to protect you?

These are all disciplines and devotions that one can participate in or not. It would be a lot like arguing in your own church over what color the walls should be painted.

Now, am I to assume that every single Church leader since Jesus and the Apostles have strictly adhered to the original meaning and intent of scripture as written, and that each and every one has interpreted the Bible correctly as the Truth as instructed by God through the Holy Spirit, and then entered it correctly into the “original” dogma of the Original Church?

Every church leader? No…

THE CHURCH- Yes.

What I mean is the church is a body with an authoritative leadership. This is how the Holy Spirit is able to work within her. It is not one person who holds all the power, but the church. Now you say but the pope the pope…well technically yes, but the Pope cannot act against the doctrines and dogmas of the church. Further 99% of the time the pope exercises this authority by calling a council as oppossed to just making statements.

If we are to take Jesus Christ at his word, that his church would not fail. If we are to believe Jesus when he says the Holy Spirit will guide you. Then we do need to believe that the church has moved through the centuries without falling to error in doctrine or dogma.

The Holy Spirit is not schizophrenic…He does not tell you one thing and me another, God is truth, and God is perfect, and his revelations to men are consistent. This is seen in The Holy Roman Church that has been extremely consistent in her teachings on faith and morals for 2000 years.

Even 100 years ago, abortion and contraception and gay marriage were condemned in ALL of protestantism. Now look at it…where is the Holy Spirit?

What is the one church that has remained faithful to this The Catholic Church.

 

[Jon_S_1]

Part 2

It’s just that I don’t always believe everything I read (except the Bible, of course) so the Catechisms, as such, are other Church leaders’ ideas of what Christ meant and intended for His followers, i.e. their interpretations. This statement is a very general statement, but I do contend that once the Bible was completed and ordained as the absolute Truth, why keep putting more and more rules and regulations on people than are already in the Bible?

The problem with this is the bible came about as a group of opinions in a council that declared many other things too. Things like Church authority and submission to the bishop and the Eucharist…These things were discussed right alongside the Canon of scripture. Yet, you choose to reject some of the teachings and uphold others…from the same council??

The truth is you have zero reason to believe one word of the Bible (particularly the books of Hebrews, and Mark) without the Church saying with its authority that it is inspired.

You have even less reason to believe that the Bible contains all the books it is suppossed to contain.

And far less standing to say that the Protestant canon that began to circulate in the 1600’s is more correct than the Catholic Canon of the previous 1600 years.

I see people here that ask some very trite questions about what is right or wrong as a Catholic Christian – like where and how to put your hands correctly in prayer, or is it okay to hold hands during Mass, or do you need to make the sign of the cross before and after saying the Rosery. Are these questions really necessary in order to be a faithful Christian? It just seems to me that being a Christian should be much simpler, and not so confusing and demanding. It just seems to me that I should be able to spend more time worshipping God and doing His good work in ministry, than I do in following rules properly.

I agree with you here. It is about out heart for Christ. The physical actions (sign of the cross for example) are suppossed to aid us in a heart for Christ, and yet some people get hung up on these things. Its one thing to want to know how to do something right, and another to think that if you dont you are sinning or something. It is superstition at times the way people take it.

But that is an issue of education not doctrines or dogmas.

I hope I helped. I refrained from using a lot of scripture quotes for a reason because it ultimately comes down to who has authority to interpret the quotes.

Every individual (your position)

Or the Church (The Catholic position)

Peace,

Jon

 

[SteveVH]

And what about the rosary, the statues of Mary and the Saints, or having a medallion necklace with a certain saint hanging around your neck and believing it has powers to protect you? Who started those traditions, when, and why? …and on what Biblical basis? I understand that some traditions can be traced directly back to the first Christians, who were for the most part converted Jews. They did, in fact, carry on some, if not most, of the rites and rituals that Jews had adhered to for thousands of years. I do not argue about that. Those instructions were also given to us directly from God.

What about a cross hanging around your neck. Why would one want to do that?

Now, am I to assume that every single Church leader since Jesus and the Apostles have strictly adhered to the original meaning and intent of scripture as written, and that each and every one has interpreted the Bible correctly as the Truth as instructed by God through the Holy Spirit, and then entered it correctly into the “original” dogma of the Original Church?

No, you are not to assume that. The Church passes on what it received. It does not make up new dogma or doctrine. That is why I asked you to please identify the dogmas that you believe have changed.

It’s just that I don’t always believe everything I read (except the Bible, of course) so the Catechisms, as such, are other Church leaders’ ideas of what Christ meant and intended for His followers, i.e. their interpretations.

And your interpretation trumps that of theological scholars and exegetes over the last 2000 years? How is that?

This statement is a very general statement, but I do contend that once the Bible was completed and ordained as the absolute Truth

Why do you believe that? Who told you that the Bible was the absolute truth?

This just baffles me. There are already over 400 commandments in the Bible that we are supposed to follow.

I only find ten which can be reduced to two. We are not subject to the Jewish dietary and cleansing laws of the Old Testament.

 

[Jon_S_1]

kmcarl,

I wanted to share one more thing with you.

As you know Paul wrote many letters of correction and support to the churches that he established in the gentile world (corinth, phillipi, ephesus, etc…)

This practiced continued in his successors and the successors of the other Apostles.

For example you can read the Epistles of Polycarp, although not canonical they certainly give excellent historical and doctrinal insights into the first century church.

You can also read the Letters of Ignatius of Antioch. As you know Antioch was a Christian powerhouse…the first place they were called Christians. Ignatius heard John preach as a boy and new personally Polycarp. He writes this, and I would ask you to really ponder its ramifications.

“Consider how contrary to the mind of God are the heterodox in regard to the grace of God which has come to us. They have no regard for charity, none for the widow, the orphan, the oppressed, none for the man in prison, the hungry or the thirsty. They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not admit that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, the flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father, in His graciousness, raised from the dead.”

“Letter to the Smyrnaeans”, paragraph 6. circa 80-110 A.D.

“Come together in common, one and all without exception in charity, in one faith and in one Jesus Christ, who is of the race of David according to the flesh, the son of man, and the Son of God, so that with undivided mind you may obey the bishop and the priests, and break one Bread which is the medicine of immortality and the antidote against death, enabling us to live forever in Jesus Christ.”

-“Letter to the Ephesians”, paragraph 20, c. 80-110 A.D.

“I have no taste for the food that perishes nor for the pleasures of this life. I want the Bread of God which is the Flesh of Christ, who was the seed of David; and for drink I desire His Blood which is love that cannot be destroyed.”

-“Letter to the Romans”, paragraph 7, circa 80-110 A.D.

“Take care, then who belong to God and to Jesus Christ - they are with the bishop. And those who repent and come to the unity of the Church - they too shall be of God, and will be living according to Jesus Christ. Do not err, my brethren: if anyone follow a schismatic, he will not inherit the Kingdom of God. If any man walk about with strange doctrine, he cannot lie down with the passion. Take care, then, to use one Eucharist, so that whatever you do, you do according to God: for there is one Flesh of our Lord Jesus Christ, and one cup in the union of His Blood; one altar, as there is one bishop with the presbytery and my fellow servants, the deacons.”

-Epistle to the Philadelphians, 3:2-4:1, 110 A.D.

 

[PRmerger]

What I meant by “scholarly people” is theologians who have much more intense study of the Bible than I do, whether Catholic or non-Catholic. It helps me to have a more clear understanding if I widen my spectrum to all Christian scholars.

We all know who the founders of the Christian Church were, and we all know where the Bible came from – the Catholic Church.

This acknowledgment is huge, kmcarl. Huge.

What this means is that:

-you do not go by the Bible Alone. That is, you admit that you defer to the Church, and not just the Bible, to tell you what is God’s Word.

-you believe in the charism of infallibility, and that it has been given to the Catholic Church. At least, as it applies to the canon of the NT.

 

[rinnie]

Yes I agree.

The poster I responded to acted as if the church saves without or apart from Christ. As if the church atoned for our sins in some way. I wanted to make it clear to him that it is Christ of whom the Church is united with

 

[SteveVH]

Yes I am aware of this and want to be clear that it is ultimately Christ.

Without Christ there is no Church

Without the Church you cannot find Christ.

“Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me.” (Luke 1016)

 

[kmcarl56]

kmcarl,

I wanted to share one more thing with you.

As you know Paul wrote many letters of correction and support to the churches that he established in the gentile world (corinth, phillipi, ephesus, etc…)

This practiced continued in his successors and the successors of the other Apostles.

For example you can read the Epistles of Polycarp, although not canonical they certainly give excellent historical and doctrinal insights into the first century church.

You can also read the Letters of Ignatius of Antioch. As you know Antioch was a Christian powerhouse…the first place they were called Christians. Ignatius heard John preach as a boy and new personally Polycarp. He writes this, and I would ask you to really ponder its ramifications.

“Consider how contrary to the mind of God are the heterodox in regard to the grace of God which has come to us. They have no regard for charity, none for the widow, the orphan, the oppressed, none for the man in prison, the hungry or the thirsty. They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not admit that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, the flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father, in His graciousness, raised from the dead.”

“Letter to the Smyrnaeans”, paragraph 6. circa 80-110 A.D.

“Come together in common, one and all without exception in charity, in one faith and in one Jesus Christ, who is of the race of David according to the flesh, the son of man, and the Son of God, so that with undivided mind you may obey the bishop and the priests, and break one Bread which is the medicine of immortality and the antidote against death, enabling us to live forever in Jesus Christ.”

-“Letter to the Ephesians”, paragraph 20, c. 80-110 A.D.

“I have no taste for the food that perishes nor for the pleasures of this life. I want the Bread of God which is the Flesh of Christ, who was the seed of David; and for drink I desire His Blood which is love that cannot be destroyed.”

-“Letter to the Romans”, paragraph 7, circa 80-110 A.D.

“Take care, then who belong to God and to Jesus Christ - they are with the bishop. And those who repent and come to the unity of the Church - they too shall be of God, and will be living according to Jesus Christ. Do not err, my brethren: if anyone follow a schismatic, he will not inherit the Kingdom of God. If any man walk about with strange doctrine, he cannot lie down with the passion. Take care, then, to use one Eucharist, so that whatever you do, you do according to God: for there is one Flesh of our Lord Jesus Christ, and one cup in the union of His Blood; one altar, as there is one bishop with the presbytery and my fellow servants, the deacons.”

-Epistle to the Philadelphians, 3:2-4:1, 110 A.D.

I agree with all of these writings, especially the last one. I, too, think that it applies to all Christians. Not just Catholics, or Lutherans, or Methodists, or Baptists. No matter what, I follow Christ and I praise God. I think that by “schismatic,” he means religions like Mormans or Latter Day Saints and Muslims, etc. who read and believe in one man’s polluted version of the Bible.

It is my hope and prayer that we, as believers and followers of Christ, can join as one Christian Church to fight God’s last fight against Satan, the Anti-Christ, who will form his own church on earth, which will NOT be Christian.

It is my hope and prayer that we can unify in our efforts to minister to those who are lost and without salvation.

It is my hope and prayer that we can stop bickering and judging each other about who or what denomination are the better Christians.

It is my hope and prayer that we can all truly love the Lord Our God as one, and to truly love our neighbors as ourselves, and that we can truly love our enemies (those who do not believe) as ourselves.

It is my hope and prayer that all of those who are lost will come to know God, the Father, and believe in Christ our Lord and Savior, and will be baptized in the name of the Holy Trinity.

I believe that as surely as God does not distinguish between white men, black men, Indian men, or Chinese men, or American, French, German, or South African, he surely does not distinguish between one denomination or another who truly believe in Him and follow Him with all their hearts, souls, and minds.

I love all Christians no matter what because you are all my brothers and sisters in Christ. I do not judge you for your doctrine, so you should not judge mine. We can always agree on one thing, and that is that we all love the Lord with all our hearts, souls and minds, and that we promise to stay in the Word diligently, we promise to worship Him diligently, and we promise to spread the Good News of Christ and salvation to everyone we possibly can.

May God bless you and keep you in His loving arms today and for the rest of your lives.

 

[PRmerger]

I love all Christians no matter what because you are all my brothers and sisters in Christ. I do not judge you for your doctrine, so you should not judge mine.

Amen! However, I’m sure you would agree that doctrine matters. Because truth matters.

So while we love people in the Westboro Baptist Church, we vehemently oppose their message of hate and vitriol.

And while we love the poor hapless individual who believes that Christians should reject all of St. Paul’s writings, we strive to correct him in his error.

 

[kmcarl56]

Amen! However, I’m sure you would agree that doctrine matters. Because truth matters.

So while we love people in the Westboro Baptist Church, we vehemently oppose their message of hate and vitriol.

And while we love the poor hapless individual who believes that Christians should reject all of St. Paul’s writings, we strive to correct him in his error.

AMEN to that! This is my hope and prayer for all who love the Lord. Who are we to judge as right or wrong what God has inspired to be the Truth as it is written in the Bible? There are many writings that were left out of the Bible for certain reasons, some legitimate, and some questionable. I do believe with all my heart that the founders of the early Church(Catholics) did their all to give us exactly what Jesus wanted for the salvation of all.

Nevertheless, this is what we have today to live by: one God, one Jesus, one Holy Spirit, and one Bible, one Baptism, one Eucharist, and one unified belief in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, King of Kings, and Lord of Lords. It is our duty, as commanded, to love each other (Christians) as Christ loves His Church, to love our neighbors as we love ourselves, and to love our enemies (those who are lost) as we love ourselves. It is our duty, as commanded, to minister to all those we can in order to bring the message of the Good News of eternal salvation through belief and faith in Jesus Christ to everyone in the world.

It is my hope and prayer that we can come together as Christians to all be soldiers of Christ in the fight against Satan when he creates his church on earth. I believe that in as much as God does not distinguish between a white man, black man, red man, or yellow man, or American, German, South African, or Brazilian, He surely does not distinguish between one who believes and follows Him from another.

…and again, I say

 

[PRmerger]

AMEN to that! This is my hope and prayer for all who love the Lord.

Who are we to judge as right or wrong what God has inspired to be the Truth as it is written in the Bible?

I do not understand your point here. Are you saying that we cannot judge as right or wrong what, say, the Westboro Baptist Church proclaims?

The Catholic paradigm is, of course, that, yes, we must indeed judge the teachings of the WBC as* very, very wrong.* Fatally wrong, indeed.

Are you of the position that we cannot judge what they are professing as true??

There are many writings that were left out of the Bible for certain reasons, some legitimate, and some questionable.

What writings were left out that you think are questionable?

Nevertheless, this is what we have today to live by: one God, one Jesus, one Holy Spirit, and one Bible, one Baptism, one Eucharist, and one unified belief in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, King of Kings, and Lord of Lords. It is our duty, as commanded, to love each other (Christians) as Christ loves His Church, to love our neighbors as we love ourselves, and to love our enemies (those who are lost) as we love ourselves. It is our duty, as commanded, to minister to all those we can in order to bring the message of the Good News of eternal salvation through belief and faith in Jesus Christ to everyone in the world.

Indeed.

And when Christians are proclaiming things which have departed from the faith given once for all to the Church, then we must do as Priscilla and Aquila did and gently nudge our Christian brothers and sisters back into the fullness of the Truth.

It is my hope and prayer that we can come together as Christians to all be soldiers of Christ in the fight against Satan when he creates his church on earth. I believe that in as much as God does not distinguish between a white man, black man, red man, or yellow man, or American, German, South African, or Brazilian,** He surely does not distinguish between one who believes and follows Him from another.**

…and again, I say

So are you saying that God does not care if the WBC professes that He hates homosexuals and laughs when someone dies?

 

[kmcarl56]

I do not understand your point here. Are you saying that we cannot judge as right or wrong what, say, the Westboro Baptist Church proclaims?

The Catholic paradigm is, of course, that, yes, we must indeed judge the teachings of the WBC as* very, very wrong.* Fatally wrong, indeed.

Are you of the position that we cannot judge what they are professing as true??

You are really splitting hairs here. I am saying that you have a brain. Use it! If you think what they are doing and what they believe is wrong, then go to them and tell them. How else are they going to know your Truth as you interpret it?

What writings were left out that you think are questionable?

…all the ones that were determined not acceptable to be included in the Holy Bible as inspired by God, but were genuinely written in the spirit of Christianity.

And when Christians are proclaiming things which have departed from the faith given once for all to the Church, then we must do as Priscilla and Aquila did and gently nudge our Christian brothers and sisters back into the fullness of the Truth.

Of course you must. That is your duty. Yet, it is also my free will to stick to the literal version of the Bible, and bring them to Christ.

So are you saying that God does not care if the WBC professes that He hates homosexuals and laughs when someone dies?

I don’t know anything about that, and it seems to be a personal issue, and one of ignorance. It is my duty to pray for the WBC so that they will see the error of their ways. If put into God’s hands, He will take care of them.

Dear friend, I am not here to condemn anyone. I am here to learn and grow in Christ. I have my opinions based on the teachings of the Bible as have been passed onto me by churches I have attended. I do not condone the fussing and fighting between Christians and I believe it is wrong. So please do not condemn me for trying my best to understand things that I know little about.

Give me an opportunity to do that, and pray for me, and give me your open heart of love and consideration. I am doing that for you.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Dear friend, I am not here to condemn anyone. I am here to learn and grow in Christ. I have my opinions based on the teachings of the Bible as have been passed onto me by churches I have attended. I do not condone the fussing and fighting between Christians and I believe it is wrong. So please do not condemn me for trying my best to understand things that I know little about.

Give me an opportunity to do that, and pray for me, and give me your open heart of love and consideration. I am doing that for you.

What would you like to know more about, friend?