Catholics and Allah

  • Thread starter Thread starter Patrick_Joshua
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I suggest You listen to what the Muslim Scholar in the start of the thread before you guys try to Jump all over me. 😃

Tell him what to believe
 
pnewton said:
Perhaps you need to review the rules on charity. This forum is not a school play ground where we engage in name-calling to make points.
Click to expand...
Apologies ; so lets stick to what is said. Have you listened to the video link in the start of the thread .😃
 
thirddec said:
I suggest You listen to what the Muslim Scholar in the start of the thread before you guys try to Jump all over me. 😃

Tell him what to believe
Click to expand...
Everyone needs to realize who Shoebat is. Shoebat’s statements on Islam are as credible as Carl Marx is on Democracy.

Shoebat was a member of the PLO. He defected to the USA and later became a Fundamentalist Protestant. He is being interviewed on a Fundamentalist Protestant program. We know that there is a strong anti-Islamic tendency among many Fundamentalist Christians, as there is an anti Christian tendency among Fundamentalist Muslims.

If we start to give credibility to extremists, we’re going to end up in the wrong place with the wrong information.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
JReducation said:
Shoebat was a member of the PLO. He defected to the USA and later became a Fundamentalist Protestant. He is being interviewed on a Fundamentalist Protestant program. We know that there is a strong anti-Islamic tendency among many Fundamentalist Christians, as there is an anti Christian tendency among Fundamentalist Muslims.
Click to expand...
So why is any Catholic listening to what this man is saying over the Catholic Church? I went to his website and read some of his articles. It will be a couple of days until I get the video, so can someone tell me, is his argument the one where Muslims have a wrong understanding of God so it is not God, or Muslims worship some pagan deity based on the epistimolgy of the word Allah?
 
You know guys i see what point you are making but I think there is a major risk in making this sort of statement without considerable care . Check out this link.

this Priest covers my point a bit more diplomatically than me 😊

youtube.com/watch?v=pgJ0s1wNEZc 😃

also i’m trying to decifer this muslim debate on same issue

youtube.com/watch?v=juY3x337HaA

At least this may give us more context to talk. 🙂
 
thirddec said:
You know guys i see what point you are making but I think there is a major risk in making this sort of statement without considerable care . Check out this link.

this Priest covers my point a bit more diplomatically than me 😊

youtube.com/watch?v=pgJ0s1wNEZc 😃

also i’m trying to decifer this muslim debate on same issue

youtube.com/watch?v=juY3x337HaA

At least this may give us more context to talk. 🙂
Click to expand...
Thank you for that. Fr. Morris restated what I said above. The problem is not with God, the problem is that the Muslim understanding of God is deficient. He did not deny that it’s the same God. At the end he said, “If I’m going to speak Arabic, I’ll use Allah and if I’m going to speak English, I’ll say God.”

The second video, the one with Br. Imran again confirms what I said above. The problem is not Allah, God, YHWH, Adonnai. The problem is a deficient understanding of the nature of God. We already know this. The Church has never said anything to the contrary.

The good thing is that we know that God in incomprehensible. Man will never fully understand God while on earth. He will always be the Tremendous, the Fascinating and the Awesome as the Doctors have described him.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
No one can come to Christ unless the Father draw them. So let us ask our Heavenly Father to draw all muslims, all Jews, all unbelievers to Christ, that they may believe and know that Lord Jesus Christ is Lord. Amen Alleluia!
 
JReducation said:
Thank you for that. Fr. Morris restated what I said above. The problem is not with God, the problem is that the Muslim understanding of God is deficient. He did not deny that it’s the same God. At the end he said, “If I’m going to speak Arabic, I’ll use Allah and if I’m going to speak English, I’ll say God.”

The second video, the one with Br. Imran again confirms what I said above. The problem is not Allah, God, YHWH, Adonnai. The problem is a deficient understanding of the nature of God. We already know this. The Church has never said anything to the contrary.

The good thing is that we know that God in incomprehensible. Man will never fully understand God while on earth. He will always be the Tremendous, the Fascinating and the Awesome as the Doctors have described him.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
Click to expand...
Yes the second video looks ok till you get to the Question and Answer Section and Br Imran is asked about whether the Christian God or the Muslim God was correct. He seened to believe there was a massive difference in the two . You can’t call Allah Father as Allah has no Son ; So The Lords Prayer has to go oops 😃
 
thirddec said:
Yes the second video looks ok till you get to the Question and Answer Section and Br Imran is asked about whether the Christian God or the Muslim God was correct. He seened to believe there was a massive difference in the two . You can’t call Allah Father as Allah has no Son ; So The Lords Prayer has to go oops 😃
Click to expand...
So what’s your point?

Jews are not allowed to call God “Father” either. That’s why Jesus was handed over to the Romans.

Catholics are no longer allowed to say Yahweh at mass. Pope Benedict declared it “the name that should never be pronounced.”

Br. Imran and Judaism do not refer to God as “Father” because they don’t understand the Trinitarian nature of God. They refer to him as Creator, so do Catholics, Orthodox and Protestants.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
If Christ tells us that we should call God our Father because that is what our concept of God and our Relationship with God should be . Can we then in all honesty say this is the same God that the Muslims say cannot have a son. How can we say they are the same

It makes no sense .
 
thirddec said:
If Christ tells us that we should call God our Father because that is what our concept of God and our Relationship with God should be . Can we then in all honesty say this is the same God that the Muslims say cannot have a son. How can we say they are the same

It makes no sense .
Click to expand...
The Church says it makes perfect sense, because the fulness of truth subsists only in the Catholic Church. When you don’t have the fulness of truth, you still have the same God, but you’re missing pieces of the truth about that God. The deficiency is not in God, but in human understanding. Otherwise, we would have to say that the Jews don’t worship the same God either. Where would that leave us?

If God ceases to be the same God, because of difficulties in understanding his nature, then we would also have to say that the Orthodox do not worship the same God as the Catholics. We believe that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. The Orthodox believe that we’re wrong, that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father through the Son. The two concepts are not the same.

However, Pope Benedict has decided to bypass this debate. When he celebrates liturgy in an Orthodox dominated country, he skips this sentence in the Creed. He says, “I believe in the Holy Spirit, who with the Father and the Son is worshipped and glorified.”

One has to learn to choose one’s battles.

The issue between Islam and Christianity is not whether or not we believe in the same God. That may be your issue, but not the issue of the Magisterium. The issue is one of the differences in our understanding of the nature of God. God remains who he is, unchangeable.

Just think of how many thousands of years passed before the Trinity was revealed to Israel. Does that mean that they did not worship the true God? Does it mean that the Trinity errupts into existence at the Incarnation? Or does it mean that they did not understand the Trinitarian nature of God?

How long did it take Catholics to fully capture the Trinitarian nature of God? Do all Christians have the same understanding of the Trinitarian nature of God? Nope, we do not. But we all worship and adore the same God.

Then you have other ecclesial communities such as Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses who also worship the same God as do Catholics. They don’t understand the nature of God either. However, we don’t say that they worship a different God.

The essence of what God is has been made known to them by the Spirit. The details is what is missing. The Church calls us to draw people into the fuller understanding of the nature of God, not to push them away by saying things about them that are not true, such as saying that they do not worship God.

Because someone has a part of the truth rather than the whole, you don’t stip them of the part in an effot to get them to embrace the whole. That makes no sense.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top