Catholics and firearms

[Celtic_Maiden]

I’m no longer catholic but I live in a very catholic region and if they ever tried to take away our guns we would probably revolt. I dont think guns are necessarily connected to religion unless your religion is strictly pacifist.

You say you are no longer Catholic but yet you put a post on a Catholic Website, I think the door is not yet closed with you and the Catholic religion, as a convert I will pray that your heart will be open to coming back to your faith. Walk with God.

 

[coachkfan1]

Classic scene from All in the Family:

Liberal Mike: Last year there were thousands of people in America that were murdered with handguns!

Archie: Would it make you feel any better if they were pushed out of windows?

 

[ru1too]

I enjoy the comment " how many would be saved if somebody had been carrying. well somebody was, an their are 12 dead and 59 wounded.

In 2011 approx 9000 people in the U.S. were murdered by gun fire, this doesnt include accidental or suicide. Over 3 time that of Mexico

Great Britain approx 14

Japan approx 47

This statistics show somethings wrong. The church’s need to speak out more on this issue, we as a nation cannot and will not give up our second amendment rights, but something has to be done.

 

[JRKH]

I enjoy the comment " how many would be saved if somebody had been carrying. well somebody was, an their are 12 dead and 59 wounded.

In 2011 approx 9000 people in the U.S. were murdered by gun fire, this doesn’t include accidental or suicide. Over 3 time that of Mexico

Great Britain approx 14

Japan approx 47

This statistics show somethings wrong. The church’s need to speak out more on this issue, we as a nation cannot and will not give up our second amendment rights, but something has to be done.

Yes - I would say that these statistics show something wrong…Most likely with the way the statistics are gathered or presented. Do you have a source for these numbers?

Statistics are nice but it is necessary to make sure that one is comparing apples to apples…“murdered by gun fire” is but one portion of “murdered”. There were more than 13,000 murders in Mexico in 2011 (source)…

Is it any less sad that so many are murdered by some other means??

Peace
James

 

[aicirt]

I enjoy the comment " how many would be saved if somebody had been carrying. well somebody was, an their are 12 dead and 59 wounded.

In 2011 approx 9000 people in the U.S. were murdered by gun fire, this doesnt include accidental or suicide. Over 3 time that of Mexico

Great Britain approx 14

Japan approx 47

This statistics show somethings wrong. The church’s need to speak out more on this issue, we as a nation cannot and will not give up our second amendment rights, but something has to be done.

First, we are a much larger nation than the other three.

Syria is also a smaller nation where 2750 were killed last month wth 19,000 killed since it
began. There the good citizens didn’t have guns but the army did and were not above coming into homes and murdering whole families. Think you’d want a gun then to protect your family?

First thing a government does to get control of its people is to disarm its citizens. Check out BRAVEHEART where the Scots were disarmed.

The shooter in Aurora was crazy but don’t think you can’t have crazies running your government e.g. Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot etc. That is why we have the right in our constitution to protect ourselves.

 

[ru1too]

Yes - I would say that these statistics show something wrong…Most likely with the way the statistics are gathered or presented. Do you have a source for these numbers?

Statistics are nice but it is necessary to make sure that one is comparing apples to apples…“murdered by gun fire” is but one portion of “murdered”.

Is it any less sad that so many are murdered by some other means??

Peace
James

 

[garn9173]

I 100% support the Second Amendment.

 

[JRKH]

As pointed out by others, the Church does not have a negative position on firearms ownership.

As to the notion of right of ownership…This is indeed enshrined in the Constitution, but in a way that is generally not well presented…

The purpose of the amendment to right to keep and bear arms is the need for a “Well regulated militia”. At the time, the nation feared (with good cause) a standing professional army. The government preferred to depend on the states to supply soldiers from their militias for national use.
This of course has changed considerably from ca 1800 to ca 2000, yet the fundamental idea of the right of the individual to keep and bear arms remains firmly implanted in the national psyche…and, I believe, with good cause.

That said, it remains a fact that the amendment is NOT to ensure the rights of the citizenry to revolt - or to keep the government in fear of an armed citizenry - It is to provide a “Well Regulated Militia…” and as such, the Government is perfectly within it’s constitutional rights to “regulate” said “militia”.
Measures such as gun registration, waiting periods, training classes, etc easily fall into this category of regulating the militia. The government would even be within it’s rights to require that all gun owners meet regularly for basic training in military tactics etc. I’m not saying they ever would, but they certainly DID back in the 1700’s and early 1800’s.

Gun owners my not like it, but there it is…If you want to use the amendment to keep your firearms, then you must embrace and accept the entire amendment.

As for gun ownership for persona protection etc…guns exist. Nothing changes that. From there the individual must recognize and accept the risks and responsibilities that go along with the decision to keep (or not) a gun in their house or on their person.

Peace
James

 

[10gr8kids]

Spears, knives, etc are not as deadly as guns. Here’s a recent example: do you think that 12 people would have been murdered and another 59 people injured if the movie murderer had knives instead of guns? I would say he would have been lucky to kill 1 person and injure 2 others before being subdued.

How many guns were on the planes on 9/11?

 

[sedonaman]

Put bluntly, what is the purpose of a gun? To kill. And it is against God’s commands to kill. So who needs guns??

Attitudes like this help ensure occupational safety for violent criminals. :sad_yes:
homicidesurvivors.com/2011/09/25/the-elite-ruling-class-war-against-victims.aspx?view=threaded

 

[JRKH]

Originally Posted by JRKH
Yes - I would say that these statistics show something wrong…Most likely with the way the statistics are gathered or presented. Do you have a source for these numbers?

I’m confused…You quoted my post - except you removed my reference to a source showing more than 13000 murders in Mexico in 2011 and then you make no comment at all.
You neither explain why you removed my reference nor do you supply the reference for your numbers…

Please explain…

Peace
James

 

[ru1too]

i was to slow posting and that happened, got a notice stating that, i cant explain it.

anyway my stats come from guardian.co.uk and fbi.gov/

i did quote the mexico stat wrong, looking at the wrong thing.

the actual murder “stat” is 13000, 8775 by firearms.

it is down from prior year, but still way to high.

 

[coachkfan1]

You know we are now in the 21st century, right?

People use this same mentality to justify gay marraige and women priests in the Catholic Church.

 

[JRKH]

i was to slow posting and that happened, got a notice stating that, i cant explain it.

anyway my stats come from guardian.co.uk and fbi.gov/

thanks

i did quote the mexico stat wrong, looking at the wrong thing.

the actual murder “stat” is 13000, 8775 by firearms.

it is down from prior year, but still way to high.

And I hope you notice how this more correct reading of the stat basically destroys it as a valid basis for your conclusion.

13,000 - 8775 = 4225…4225 people murdered by something other than a gun…
One has to wonder…how many of those 8775 killed by guns would still have been killed if guns were not available…

Also - since many of the murders are “Drug related” (illegal activity) just how much effect would gun laws have on these people?

Peace
James

 

[sedonaman]

You know we are now in the 21st century, right?

Are you implying that ideas developed before the 21st century are invalid?

 

[sedonaman]

…
Also - since many of the murders are “Drug related” (illegal activity) just how much effect would gun laws have on these people?

Peace
James

We are talking about Mexico, right?

 

[mangy_dog]

People’s skin tends to get real thin around this subject of firearms.

It’s important to not personify firearms as if they had a life of their own.

In the hands of a determined human being, a rubber band and a bobby pin are lethal weapons.

Spears, arrows, hatchetts, machetes, slings, blowguns and other none explosive weapons- are still used in many parts of the world. They don’t have a mind of their own-they still have to be wielded by some one.

 

[TimothyH]

Put bluntly, what is the purpose of a gun? To kill. And it is against God’s commands to kill. So who needs guns??

This is how I feel.

If I don’t own a gun, I’ll never have to stand before Jesus and explain why I shot someone.

If people want to own guns, that’s fine, but it is one less thing I will have to deal with when I stand nose to nose and face to face with Our Lord and have to give an accounting of my life.

-Tim-

 

[runningreddog]

The harsh reality is that there are guns/weapons in the world. There are people who will use them for evil. If guns were criminalized, do people really think they would magically disappear? I think not. I’m glad that I have the means to protect myself and loved ones if needed. I pray that I never have to do more than display one in self defense.

 

[Rhuarc]

Put bluntly, what is the purpose of a gun? To kill. And it is against God’s commands to kill. So who needs guns??

Friend the commandment is thou shall not MURDER. Murder is killing done with malice, in this view the Israelites would never have been able to make it to the promised land because you would make it to where they cannot have swords to conquer the occupiers.