Catholics and firearms

[SwissGuard25]

Too bad none of the Christians in the Sudan thought about that while they were being raped to death.

lol. I’m sorry did I offend your conservative agenda?

I think you knew I was referring to American Catholics, as whom the question was directed at.

 

[Regular_Atheist]

I don’t think owning firearms should be legal, but only really because I live in the UK where they’re not a big part of the culture like the USA.

EDIT: Wait, I’m not Catholic and therefore I have buggered up your poll with my heathen beliefs! Sorry, guys.

 

[SwissGuard25]

I don’t think owning firearms should be legal, but only really because I live in the UK where they’re not a big part of the culture like the USA.

EDIT: Wait, I’m not Catholic and therefore I have buggered up your poll with my heathen beliefs! Sorry, guys.

Its all groovy.

I hope U.S. pro-gun people take something from your statement. U.K. has less murders from guns than the U.S… UK has 51 per year, The U.S. 12,252 per year.

We have more than any middle eastern country, which we criticize so much.

 

[jwinch2]

Its all groovy.

I hope U.S. pro-gun people take something from your statement. U.K. has less murders from guns than the U.S…

What exactly do you want us to take from it?

The UK actually saw their rates of gun related crime increase after they imposed their latest restrictions, not decrease. In contrast, despite steady easing of gun restrictions in the United States in recent years, our murder rate has gone down, not up. Within the US, the large cities with the strictest gun laws also have some of the highest murder rates.

Switzerland has a far lower murder rate than the UK while also having one of the highest gun rates of gun ownership in the world. By contrast, El Salvador has very strict gun laws while still having a murder rate over 10 times as high as the US. In addition, Jamaica has some of the toughest gun laws in the world, to the point where they are actually banned for 99% of the population. However, their murder rate is also roughly 10 times that of the United States. Brazil also, has much more restrictive gun laws than the United States, yet their rate of gun crime and gun related murder is much higher than ours.

 

[white_sheep]

lol. I’m sorry did I offend your conservative agenda?

I think you knew I was referring to American Catholics, as whom the question was directed at.

I didn’t say anything worth loling about. If you find people being raped to death to be funny, then I have no doubt you don’t think the kind of violence the defenseless face in America is worth doing anything about.

 

[Seeker1961]

I own a revolver and I believe that responsible people should be able to own a weapon for self protection. However, I also have no problem with waiting periods or other regulations. I don’t think assault rifles should be so easy to obtain that pretty much anyone can go to a gun show and pick one up. I’m suspicious of anyone who needs a gun RIGHT NOW.

 

[SwissGuard25]

I didn’t say anything worth loling about. If you find people being raped to death to be funny, then I have no doubt you don’t think the kind of violence the defenseless face in America is worth doing anything about.

You’re not good at following along are yah?

I didn’t laugh at the people in Sudan. I laughed at the fact you brought that up. When the question asked U.S. Catholics (to whom I was referring to) not Sudan Catholics. America is obsessed with Guns to much because they believe it’s the only true way to protect themselves. And they only reason why they think they need this protection is because they believe all the lies the media tells 'em. Each year Media Reports on Death, Robbery’s, etc goes up %600

I am to worried that Catholics align themselves with Republicans to easily. Just because they’re against Abortion and Gay Marriage doesn’t mean we have to follow everything they say.

 

[SwissGuard25]

What exactly do you want us to take from it?

The UK actually saw their rates of gun related crime increase after they imposed their latest restrictions, not decrease. In contrast, despite steady easing of gun restrictions in the United States in recent years, our murder rate has gone down, not up. Within the US, the large cities with the strictest gun laws also have some of the highest murder rates.

Well duh.
Of course large cities are going to have more murders than small cities.And sense you brought it up why don’t you name me these cities an their murder rates and where the murder rates are increasing off the top of your head sense you didn’t just make it up. Also, did you know each year murder in the U.S. goes down. And media reports on murders go up %600. The only reason why Americans think they need guns is because they believe its the only true way to protect ourselves. The only reason why we think we need to protect our selves is because of what the media tells us.

Switzerland has a far lower murder rate than the UK while also having one of the highest gun rates of gun ownership in the world. By contrast, El Salvador has very strict gun laws while still having a murder rate over 10 times as high as the US. In addition, Jamaica has some of the toughest gun laws in the world, to the point where they are actually banned for 99% of the population. However, their murder rate is also roughly 10 times that of the United States. Brazil also, has much more restrictive gun laws than the United States, yet their rate of gun crime and gun related murder is much higher than ours.

List off South American Countries where the Drug trade is present. Let’s see who has the most gun murders in the world, South Africa (let’s pray to the Heavenly Father that goes down) who have probably among the least Gun regulations in the world. All they require is a background check.

P.S.
The U.K. gun murder rate went up for a bit then went back down. This wasn’t by English citizens but by foreigners (if you will)

I am to worried that Catholics align themselves with Republicans to easily. Just because they’re against Abortion and Gay Marriage doesn’t mean we have to follow everything they say.

Also why don’t you answer me this.
Do you really Need a Gun?

 

[mommyof4]

My husband owns a few shot guns, but in all honesty he is not any kind of gun monger- it’s just for critter control on the farm. We are not by any means some gun packing hill billy’s around here.

 

[jwinch2]

Well duh.
Of course large cities are going to have more murders than small cities.

I didn’t say anything about large and small cities. I said large cities with strict gun control as compared to those with less strict gun control. And you can drop the “well duh” stuff and attitude.

List off South American Countries where the Drug trade is present. Let’s see who has the most gun murders in the world, South Africa (let’s pray to the Heavenly Father that goes down) who have probably among the least Gun regulations in the world. All they require is a background check.

That was not your argument at all. You made the suggestion that stricter gun laws led to decreases in gun crime. I provided evidence that they do not. There is no reliable correlation between gun control laws and gun crime. If countries with strict gun control consistently had lower rates of gun crime and those with less had higher rates of crime, that would be true. But it isn’t. So let’s take your South American drug trade argument off the table (despite the fact that you included South Africa) and look at something else.

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Do you really Need a Gun?

Why is it any of your business as to what I need or do not need?

The Catechism of the Catholic Church makes it explicitly clear that we have the right and indeed, the moral obligation to defend ourselves and the ones we love or even other innocents who may be in peril. The Constitution of the United States guarantees me the right to bear arms and this right has been affirmed in the Supreme Court. Thus, I am in line with the teachings of my Church and complying with the laws of my country.

 

[SwissGuard25]

I didn’t say anything about large and small cities. I said large cities with strict gun control as compared to those with less strict gun control. And you can drop the “well duh” stuff and attitude.

Sorry.
Anyways you’re missing the point. I asked you what were these cities. And if their murder rates are going down or up?

That was not your argument at all. You made the suggestion that stricter gun laws led to decreases in gun crime. I provided evidence that they do not. There is no reliable correlation between gun control laws and gun crime. If countries with strict gun control consistently had lower rates of gun crime and those with less had higher rates of crime, that would be true. But it isn’t. So let’s take your South American drug trade argument off the table (despite the fact that you included South Africa) and look at something else.

Not exactly what I said. I said that in America stricter Gun Laws could help. Different things work for different countries. Europeans are less crazy with Guns and their first mode isn’t of violence. Unlike Americans (Not to say all Americans are like this though). In america we are so obsessed with violence it gets to a point where it’s not even funny. Most Americans are to high strung with what the media says. It’s not that bad really, I mean honestly when have you ever had to use a gun to defend yourself against another human being. Please Be Honest.

Why is it any of your business as to what I need or do not need?

Sorry I didn’t mean to offend you.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church makes it explicitly clear that we have the right and indeed, the moral obligation to defend ourselves and the ones we love or even other innocents who may be in peril. The Constitution of the United States guarantees me the right to bear arms and this right has been affirmed in the Supreme Court. Thus, I am in line with the teachings of my Church and complying with the laws of my country.

The Church puts an emphasis on what is necessarily for self defense also. We must say in line with Christ’s teachings on turning the other cheek etc. But of course this doens’t apply to someone trying to kill you.
And don’t want to sound like a jerk but no the constitution doesn’t say this. But the Bill of Rights does. However sense we including the constitution of the U.S. may I remind you it also said the Only Rich White Men were the only ones who could vote. (Caucasian men who owned property) Should we keep that law too because the constitution says so? Of course not. Things change.

 

[jwinch2]

Sorry.
Anyways you’re missing the point. I asked you what were these cities. And if their murder rates are going down or up?

I posted a significant amount of data on this earlier in the thread as well as other threads that I linked to.

Not exactly what I said. I said that in America stricter Gun Laws could help. Different things work for different countries. Europeans are less crazy with Guns and their first mode isn’t of violence. Unlike Americans (Not to say all Americans are like this though). In america we are so obsessed with violence it gets to a point where it’s not even funny. Most Americans are to high strung with what the media says.

I do not pay attention to what the media says regarding guns or much else for that matter. I get my crime data from the local police department and my national data from reports published by the FBI. In addition, you are using your subjective opinion about what people will or will not do. If you want to convince anyone, provide objective data. I have showed you evidence that rates of gun ownership in a country is not linked in anyway to gun violence. Since you are unable to refute this, you dismiss it out of hand. If the guns were the problem, there would be a link, but their isn’t.

It’s not that bad really, I mean honestly when have you ever had to use a gun to defend yourself against another human being. Please Be Honest.

No, but my mother did while I was in the house as a 5 year old child. A man knocked on the door and was wearing a theater mask that in the darkened light of an apartment hallway looked like a harmless old man. The only problem was that he had it on the back of his head and when he turned a bit as she was opening the door but had not yet taken off the door chain, my mom could see his real face and tried to push the door shut as he was trying to force his way in. I ran and got her gun. When he saw it, he ran. It took 13 minutes for the police to arrive.

The Church puts an emphasis on what is necessarily for self defense also. We must say in line with Christ’s teachings on turning the other cheek etc. But of course this doens’t apply to someone trying to kill you.
And don’t want to sound like a jerk but no the constitution doesn’t say this. But the Bill of Rights does.

The Bill of Rights was written at a time when conflict between Federalists and anti-Federalists, dating from the Convention in 1787, threatened the Constitution’s ratification. The Bill was largely a response to those who argued that it failed to protect the basic principles of human liberty. In other words, if the Bill of Rights had not been written and approved, neither would the Constitution. Passing the Constitution was contingent upon the Bill of Rights. Regardless, once a document has been amended, those amendments are now part of it.

However sense we including the constitution of the U.S. may I remind you it also said the Only Rich White Men were the only ones who could vote. (Caucasian men who owned property) Should we keep that law too because the constitution says so? Of course not. Things change.

Red herring argument. Regardless, fundamental human rights do not change, neither does the natural law. Things which have changed have done so because they were violating someone’s God given rights. My owning a gun violates no one else’s rights at all.

 

[SwissGuard25]

I posted a significant amount of data on this earlier in the thread as well as other threads that I linked to.

Yes. Such as?

I do not pay attention to what the media says regarding guns or much else for that matter.

I was refering to what the media said about murders and how their reports on murders go up %600 every year which strikes fear into people making them think they need guns.

In addition, you are using your subjective opinion about what people will or will not do. If you want to convince anyone, provide objective data. I have showed you evidence that rates of gun ownership in a country is not linked in anyway to gun violence. Since you are unable to refute this, you dismiss it out of hand. If the guns were the problem, there would be a link, but their isn’t.

Are you actually saying that guns make people safe??

If this were true America would have over 12,000 murders per year, and the Middle East would be the safest place in the world.
No link? You’re right the world is more peaceful with guns around

When he saw it, he ran. It took 13 minutes for the police to arrive.

And the Gun was the savior. I really think any weapon such as a knife could of frighted that sick coward.

Regardless, fundamental human rights do not change, neither does the natural law. Things which have changed have done so because they were violating someone’s God given rights. My owning a gun violates no one else’s rights at all.

Am I calling you a murder? No. But they’re people who do, and making guns more accessible is only adding to the problem.

P.S. I came across your willy wonka meme. All I have to say:
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/24241712.jpg

 

[starshiptrooper]

However sense we including the constitution of the U.S. may I remind you it also said the Only Rich White Men were the only ones who could vote. (Caucasian men who owned property) Should we keep that law too because the constitution says so? Of course not. Things change.

Actually, the Constitution does not say that anywhere. Deciding who gets to vote is a task left to the states. New York and New Hampshire allowed free black men to vote before the Civil War.

We can throw numbers back and forth, but that still doesn’t explain why disarming the law abiding citizens (the most significant effect of gun restrictions) makes a country safer.

 

[SwissGuard25]

Actually, the Constitution does not say that anywhere. Deciding who gets to vote is a task left to the states. New York and New Hampshire allowed free black men to vote before the Civil War.

The U.S. government requirements for voting were; had to be over 21, had to be male, had to be white, and had to own land.

We can throw numbers back and forth, but that still doesn’t explain why disarming the law abiding citizens (the most significant effect of gun restrictions) makes a country safer.

What?
Who said anything about completely disarming citizens? I only want stricter gun laws

 

[CatholicTimmy]

I voted that they should be illegal, I see no reason that in America someone should be allowed to own a gun. The only purpose a gun has is to kill, how often does the average American need to kill someone.
Unless you live in a rural area and you have to hunt to eat, you shouldn’t be able to have a gun, much less be able to carry it with you in public. If someone needs to hunt, allow them To own 1 gun, no more and not some machine gun that can shoot a bazillion bullets a minute.

I can’t imagine Christ, or the blessed mother carrying around a gun.

 

[SwissGuard25]

I voted that they should be illegal, I see no reason that in America someone should be allowed to own a gun. The only purpose a gun has is to kill, how often does the average American need to kill someone.

Get rady for the endless guns don’t kill people, people kill people.
lol People use guns to kill people

I can’t imagine Christ, or the blessed mother carrying around a gun.

Amen Brother.

Catholics need to strive to be like Jesus and the Saints. I couldn’t imagine any of them standing up for guns

 

[jwinch2]

I was refering to what the media said about murders and how their reports on murders go up %600 every year which strikes fear into people making them think they need guns.

600% every year? Of course you can back that up with objective data.

Are you actually saying that guns make people safe??

I’m saying that there is no relationship between gun laws and gun crime prevention, and I have provided evidence to support this.

And the Gun was the savior. I really think any weapon such as a knife could of frighted that sick coward.

I trust the judgement of trained detectives who looked into the situation far more than your opinion. Police later caught the man and determined that he had raped three women in the area by forcing his way into their homes. He was 6’1" and weighed about 225lbs. He carried a knife with him. The likelihood that he would have been scared of my mother who weighed all of 115lbs and a 5 year old boy is minimal at best.

Am I calling you a murder? No. But they’re people who do, and making guns more accessible is only adding to the problem.

P.S. I came across your willy wonka meme. All I have to say:
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/24241712.jpg

And I have already refuted that logical fallacy with objective data. In fact, as I showed earlier, some of the countries with the strictest gun laws have the highest rates of gun crime and some of the countries with the loosest gun laws have some of the lowest rates of gun crime.

If your assertions were true, then the Swiss would have incredibly high gun crime and Jamaica would have next to none. If your assertions were true, the United States would have 10-times the gun crime that Honduras does. If your assertions were true, Nashville, TN would have a massively higher rate of murder and gun crime as compared to Washington DC instead of 1/2 the rate. If your assertions were true Chicago, IL would have a much lower rate of gun crime than Dallas, TX. However, exactly none of those things are reality. In fact, they are all exactly the opposite of that. Thus, your assertions are demonstrably false.

 

[starshiptrooper]

The U.S. government requirements for voting were; had to be over 21, had to be male, had to be white, and had to own land.

Would you mind showing me the relevant section of the Constitution?

What?
Who said anything about completely disarming citizens? I only want stricter gun laws

Would you please give some examples?

CatholicTimmy:

voted that they should be illegal, I see no reason that in America someone should be allowed to own a gun.

The purpose of a government is not to prevent us from possessing things, the purpose of government is protect our rights to life, liberty, property and the pursuit of happiness. How does my possession of a handgun infringe on your rights?

Unless you live in a rural area and you have to hunt to eat, you shouldn’t be able to have a gun, much less be able to carry it with you in public. If someone needs to hunt, allow them To own 1 gun, no more and not some machine gun that can shoot a bazillion bullets a minute.

In the US, you are required to have an extremely expensive license if you want to own an automatic weapon.

I can’t imagine Christ, or the blessed mother carrying around a gun.

And your point is what?

 

[white_sheep]

Yes. Such as?

I was refering to what the media said about murders and how their reports on murders go up %600 every year which strikes fear into people making them think they need guns.

Are you actually saying that guns make people safe??

If this were true America would have over 12,000 murders per year, and the Middle East would be the safest place in the world.
No link? You’re right the world is more peaceful with guns around

And the Gun was the savior. I really think any weapon such as a knife could of frighted that sick coward.

Am I calling you a murder? No. But they’re people who do, and making guns more accessible is only adding to the problem.

P.S. I came across your willy wonka meme. All I have to say:
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/24241712.jpg

Africa is a perfect example of why people should be allowed to have guns to defend themselves. Africa has gun control, and look what happens anytime an outside power ships in some ak-47s. None of the people they go to kill can fight back, so, just like when someone walks into a theater where all the of the intended victims are disarmed by the law, the guy with the gun can just shoot everyone.