Catholics and Lutherans join doctrines

[sara888]

**SIZE=3]Lutherans and Catholics celebrated the fifth anniversary of the signing of the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification **** (JDDJ) with an ecumenical gathering in Bratislava, Slovak Republic, on Oct. 22, 2004.

The festival, jointly organized by the Evangelical Church of the Augsburg Confession in the Slovak Republic (ECAC-SR) and Roman Catholic Church, attracted ecumenical partners, educators, civic leaders, as well as representatives from various church groups outside of the Lutheran and Catholic traditions.

“God’s justifying grace continues to reconcile people and bring peace to the world. We want to discover and receive the renewing gifts of God’s mercy and join our hands in service to the world,” said the ECAR-SR General Bishop Dr Julius Filo.

The JDDJ was signed by representatives of the LWF and Roman Catholic Church on Oct. 31, 1999, in Augsburg, Germany. In essence, the document affirmsB] that Lutherans and Catholics have reached an agreement on the basic truths regarding justification.**

Sara

 

[Lazerlike42]

Sortof. That report is misleading. Basically what the joint declaration did was point out what aspects the two side already agree on, and what aspects they agree on now after various misunderstandings of terminology were worked out.

Read up! catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9911fea1.asp

 

[sara888]

****The new statement does NOT claim to have resolved all points related to the two understandings of justification, but declares that the remaining differences should not divide the churches

.They are equating Justification by grace through faith with the new birth or baptism with the Holy Ghost. I John 5:1-13 which compares the natural birth with the Spiritual, points out how one may be justified but not sanctified; sanctified but not justified or justified and sanctified but still not born-again and ultimately lost. ****

Sara

 

[Neithan]

declares that the remaining differences should not divide the churches

If this were true, then why is there still a separate Lutheran world body? This is why I finally converted from Lutheranism to Catholicism–I could no longer see why the former should still exist outside of the Church, especially in light of Vatican II and the recent JDDJ.
I think it may have to do with the fact that the Lutheran World Federation actually does already consider itself part of the ‘Church catholic’ as they say–they don’t recognize the need for physical unity of Christendom.

 

[javelin]

I think a big problem is that (I believe) all the Lutheran synods have not accepted the JDDJ. Anyone have more specific info on this?

Peace,
javelin

 

[RyanL]

Most who talk about the JDDJ often forget that the Church issued an official response, which gives several clarifications about the points of disagreement (listed in order of importance). I have linked it here, for those who are interested.

God Bless,
RyanL

 

[Sherlock]

Neithan:

If this were true, then why is there still a separate Lutheran world body? This is why I finally converted from Lutheranism to Catholicism–I could no longer see why the former should still exist outside of the Church, especially in light of Vatican II and the recent JDDJ.
I think it may have to do with the fact that the Lutheran World Federation actually does already consider itself part of the ‘Church catholic’ as they say–they don’t recognize the need for physical unity of Christendom.

Neithen, since you were once Lutheran maybe you can shed some light here: isn’t it also the case that not all Lutheran bodies agree with the JDDJ? And isn’t it also VERY problematic that, no matter how close the agreement on justification might bring Catholics and Lutherans together, the other huge doctrinal differences remain? I don’t see much hope for unity, to be honest. I see it as even more unlikely with the passage of time, as Lutherans are going through the same same-sex marriage and gay clergy questions as the Episcopalians did: if Lutherans vote to approve same-sex marriage and gay clergy, it is going to make unification virtually impossible.

 

[sara888]

**Again (most )Lutherans always professed the Justfication/Salvation doctrine, the only doctrinal differences are purgatory and the 7 sacracments, since Lutherans profess Communion, and Baptism and catholics have 5 additional sacraments.

I feel and hope they will unite sometime in the furture on Catholic Doctrine.

Sara**

 

[Fidelis]

This may be helpful.

Walking the Ecumenical Tightrope
catholic.com/thisrock/1998/9810fea1.asp

 

[Neithan]

Sherlock:

Neithen, since you were once Lutheran maybe you can shed some light here: isn’t it also the case that not all Lutheran bodies agree with the JDDJ?

Yes, the International Lutheran Council (ILC) is the other major Lutheran world body which does *not *agree with the JDDJ, and is in many other respects at odds with the Lutheran World Federation. For reference, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) are part of the LWF and the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod are part of the ILC. The former are very liberal and the latter consider themselves true “Confessional Lutherans,” still holding fast to the 16th century Book of Concord.

And isn’t it also VERY problematic that, no matter how close the agreement on justification might bring Catholics and Lutherans together, the other huge doctrinal differences remain?

While Justification was the main sticking point for Luther, there are indeed many other disagreements, particularly regarding purgatory and all the doctrines attached to it (Lutherans reject them all outright).

• I don’t see much hope for unity, to be honest. I see it as even more unlikely with the passage of time, as Lutherans are going through the same same-sex marriage and gay clergy questions as the Episcopalians did: if Lutherans vote to approve same-sex marriage and gay clergy, it is going to make unification virtually impossible.*

Ironically, only the Lutherans who signed the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification with the Vatican (the liberal LWF) are dealing with these controversies.

 

[Tonks40]

Neithan:

Yes, the International Lutheran Council (ILC) is the other major Lutheran world body which does *not *agree with the JDDJ, and is in many other respects at odds with the Lutheran World Federation. For reference, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) are part of the LWF and the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod are part of the ILC. The former are very liberal and the latter consider themselves true “Confessional Lutherans,” still holding fast to the 16th century Book of Concord.

So…what are the chances of the ILC uniting with the LWF? (Disclaimer: I don’t know much about the Lutheran Church - please enlighten)

 

[Neithan]

Tonks40:

So…what are the chances of the ILC uniting with the LWF?

Slim to none as I see it. Since the 17th century or thereabouts Lutheranism has always had two separate groups–the ‘orthodox’ “Confessional Lutherans” who were dogmatic about the 1580 Book of Concord (which raises eyebrows as to just how “sola scriptura” they really are), are more conservative and organized today into the churches of the ILC; and the more liberal, “Pious Lutherans,” who have flowed more with the tide of mainline Protestantism and whose heritage has passed down into the denominations which make up the LWF. The doctrines of both are generally the same, but the latter group accept women clergy, practice open communion (any baptized Christian), accept homosexuality (recent decision), and are more ecumenical. The ILC are more exclusive, practice closed communion, are more deeply anti-catholic, but morally conservative (no women priests or homosexuality etc. etc.)
The divisions run deep even among individual Protestant denominations and the best thing the Church can really do is continue to proclaim the unchanged truths of Christianity, maintain her ecumenical spirit, trust and pray in the Holy Spirit for the eventual unity of Christendom.[

](http://bookofconcord.org) You can read an excellent history of Lutheranism (from a Catholic perspective) in the old Catholic Encyclopedia.