Catholics and marriage licenses

  • Thread starter Thread starter ByWhatAuthority
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
B

ByWhatAuthority

Guest
I’m new here. First post so I hope this is in the appropriate place.

My friend is unable to obtain a marriage license. She is a Catholic in good standing as is her fiancé. They have been engaged for a year, have completed precana and everything and would like to be married soon but the church will not marry them unless they have a marriage license. I think this is so wrong!

Why should Catholics be forced to get permission from the state in order to have a sacrament presided over?

I am becoming more and more convinced that US Catholics should not contract with the state before marriage. I think this rule is a draconian overreaching of government mixing with our sacraments and I’m surprised by the lack of Catholics concerned by this.

I’m curious to know if there is anyone out there who shares my thoughts. Also, for my dear friend; anyone out there who knows a priest willing to marry them, I’d love to be able to help. Tia
 
Last edited by a moderator:
first of all, I am curious as to what impedes your friend from acquiring a marriage license.

And second of all, (this is a theory- if incorrect, someone please correct me) your friend and her husband could get married in the Catholic church and cohabitate in the eyes of the state until your state’s common law marriage statute (if there is one) kicks in.
 
You failed to say why they cannot obtain a marriage license; thus your comments about the State are meaningless. If you can supply more, a conversation might be possible.
 
I love that!! lol “cohabitate in the state”. Too funny! I guess canon law doesn’t say you have to have a marriage license but no priest will marry you without one cause when they marry a couple they are acting as state officials so marriage without a license would be breaking the law.
 
Well my guess would be because the marriage isnt valid if its not legal.
 
Marriage is a sacrament. state recognition should be voluntary. IMO
 
From what I understand. Her legal status has to do with her family’s political status. Her family has successfully removed themselves from the US jurisdiction. So she doesn’t qualify for a ML, or any other state sanctioned documentation.

Regardless of why they can’t; I think, getting a license from the state to marry should at the very least be optional. It’s a sacrament for pity’s sake and we can’t have it unless the government says so!!???

My friends situation really made me see how wrong this all is.
 
Last edited:
I gather that you mean that she is in this country illegally. I am not aware of any questions on a marriage license application asking about immigration status. What state is this?
 
I remember learning in French class in high school that priests in France have no authority to officiate at a civil marriage. People that want to marry in the church there have two ceremonies: a sacramental marriage ceremony in a church and a civil marriage ceremony at the courthouse.
 
Problems arise when people think they are an exception.

The family perhaps can get the legal documents from the country they are affiliated with.

For further understanding on why this is necessary should be addressed with a priest.
 
Last edited:
She and her family are not here illegally. From what I gather. Her father found a way to remove her family from the incorporated status of the US. Thus disqualifying them from state sanctions, licenses, property taxes, etc… (you can only imagine the many benefits to having done that. There are hurdles of course but receiving a sacrament should not be one of them, imo.)

I’d rather this conversation not really be about her family’s political status though. I only have a basic understanding of it, I think regardless of her legal status, she and her fiancé should be able to receive the sacrament of marriage.

Does anyone know of a priest who would be willing to take off his state hat and preside over their marriage as a sacrament only?
 
Last edited:
My MIL at age 70+ decided re-marry (her husband had died years ago); for a variety of reasons for both of them, not the least of which was re-writing of wills and the like, they flew to Italy and were married by a priest whom she knew there. They are still not legally married in the US.

I think, in the US, priests don’t want to condone marriages that don’t appear valid. They could be sanctioning law-breaking if the couple is using the non-legal status for tax and income advantages. I would imagine, though I’m not sure how it works, that a civil marriage would “show up” when looking into obtaining a license so people who had been married and divorced would be more evident to the priest as would a relationship that is not appropriate. A sort of “trust but verify.”

It’s complicated and, honestly, I don’t think that a sacramental marriage should need a State to legitimize it but there are certainly very good reasons why those rules are in place. You’d have to change the entire tax code just to start creating a State that wouldn’t care if people were married or not. Ugh, good luck with that!
 
This is a hang-over from the time when only the Church could conduct marriages. Now that there is a completely different position held on marriage by states and the Church, the Church should revert to even earlier times when it did not hold state power. Incidentally, where I live, there is virtually no difference at all in terms of inheritance, benefits and so on based on marriage. Discrimination in most areas based on marital status is unlawful. Any two of-age people who are not already married can do so, or have a civil union, or live together informally, which is considered to be the same as a marriage. Churches can appoint marriage celebrants who must also be approved by the state. Anyone else of good character can be appointed as a celebrant. Celebrants are able to choose which couples they will marry. Makes things much clearer.
 
ByWhatAuthority said:
From what I gather. Her father found a way to remove her family from the incorporated status of the US. Thus disqualifying them from state sanctions, licenses, property taxes, etc…
Click to expand...
I hope that you don’t actually believe that.
 
It’s my understanding that when the Catholic priest witnesses the marriage in the United States, he is basically serving as the legal representative of the State. The USA does not have one marriage for the “church ceremony” and another marriage for the “civil ceremony”. Therefore any priest, minister, rabbi or other religious person who presides over your ceremony is basically also being the legal person presiding over it. Once you are married he signs the form necessary for the state to recognize your marriage. You do not have to have a second ceremony in front of a state judge or any civil authority.

While I’m sure there is some rogue “minister” or mail order “minister” or something out there who would marry your friend (similar to how Jim Morrison allegedly married a woman in a pagan ceremony but never got a license and thus it was not legal marriage), no organized Church like the Catholic Church is going to get involved in something like that and put themselves at odds with the state.

I don’t know if your friend can find some other jurisdiction outside the US where church marriage and civil marriage are legally two different things, but it seems like she needs to reinstate herself with the US state legal system if she wants to be married here. The US uses the institution of marriage for many legal purposes including taxes, child support, social security benefits to surviving spouse, medical consents, etc. (This is also why some people argue for gay people to be able to get married by the state even if the Church won’t marry them.) As the Who sang, “It’s a legal matter, baby.”
 
Last edited:
FiveLinden said:
This is a hang-over from the time when only the Church could conduct marriages. Now that there is a completely different position held on marriage by states and the Church, the Church should revert to even earlier times when it did not hold state power.
Click to expand...
“The Church” does not make the laws of the United States, and the marriage laws of each United State regarding religious officials solemnizing marriages apply to a huge group of churches, not just the Catholic Church. There is no way the Church can somehow just exempt itself out of 50 different states’ marriage laws, and no good reason for it to do so since people who do not want to be married in the Catholic Church have a huge number of other options available.
 
They want to find a priest that goes against church authority to marry them?

And then think this,would be a sacramental marriage? Eek.

In all charity, your friends family has issues with authority.
 
Do you hear the obsurdity in what you are saying?

A priest is breaking the law if he presides over the sacrament without them getting the states permission??? All they want is a sacramental marriage.

This ridiculous law has to change! Sorry for the inconvenience.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top