Catholics and Muslims? HELP!

[Gerry_Hunter]

…he always says something that i think makes me feel guilty - that he is accepting of my religion, why can’t i be tolerant of his.

Yes, by all means be tolerant of it. After all, we tolerate, in life, only that which is less than optimal, so toleration is certainly called for here. Toleration works fine in social relationships, as in not planning the big company lunch during Ramadan if there are Muslim employees to be included. But in a marriage we are dealing with two people becoming one flesh. That is VERY different, and toleration is not, I’d suggest, a sufficient basis for that situation.

if we break up over belonging to 2 different religions, is that christian-like? i feel like i’m discriminating against him.

In order, yes, it is, and no, you’re not.

Jesus himself had some very strong things to say about who were his brothers and sisters, and the fate of those who looked back after putting thier hand on the plow. There’s noi rrom for compromise here.

Blessings,

Gerry

 

[OneAugustKnight]

I’m married to a Muslim. I converted to Catholicism after we married. We had our marriage validated in the Church, and he argeed to raise the children Catholic. He might try to influence the children to his perspective, but not until they are older.

He is a wonderful husband, but our differences in Faith cause an estrangement. He compromises his religion, and I don’t compromise mine. That is probably the only way a Catholic/Muslim marriage can work for a Catholic.

He is a cradle Catholic who was raised Baptist and Catholic at the same time. He had to prepare for and receive the Sacraments of Initiation to please his grandparents while his mother and stepfather undermined the Church and raised him Baptist in secrecy.

Here’s what I have to deal with:

He won’t sit with me during Mass

No statues or pictures of Jesus or the Saints in our home.(Except one crucifix)

Tons of questions about his religion from everyone we come in contact with.

We don’t pray together.

He is uncomfortable with Christian holidays.

Fasting during Ramadan makes him grouchy.

Islam objectifies women and has more legalistic requirements than moral requirements, which reflects in his behaviors and attitudes.

Other than that we don’t have really have any problems. But from what I understand most Muslims aren’t as liberal as he is. So be careful, as Islam allows divorce,polygamy, and wife beating.

 

[mom2boyz]

His responses sound like canned responses to throw off someone and undermine their beliefs so that the person begins to doubt what they believe is true. Then it makes it easier to convert them. So is he trying to eventually convert you?

You will be so lonely in ways you can’t even imagine. Being Catholic is part of the way you think. But he won’t think like that because it isn’t a part of who he is. And wait til the suffering and trials of marriage happen. The loneliness will be intensified as you won’t have a common way of thinking about suffering. You will be uniting your suffering to Jesus. He won’t.

He may be a fine person. That doesn’t make him a fine person for you to marry.

 

[gam3rchic]

As far as children, we have discussed this, and he wants our children to be raised knowing both faiths, and then making the decision for themselves. I don’t particularly like that idea - maybe because my household, my father was the spiritual leader in our home and we all grew in our faith and learned about it together. But we have to compromise.

Ok, a requirement of the Church if you marry someone of another faith is that the future spouse has to agree to let the children be raised Catholic…it sounds like he is not willing to do this. While I feel for you and your situation and how you love this man, your future children’s souls are at stake here. I know that may sound dramatic, but it’s the truth. You can not let your children “make the decision for themselves”…since when do children know what’s good for them??? That’s why God gave them adults, in hopes that WE will give them what’s good for them…and they need Christ!!! NO IFS, ANDS OR BUTS!

You do not have to compromise on this topic…I do believe compromising is important in a relationship, but there are things that are non-negotiable…and when i was dating, my faith and the future faith of my children was definitely a non-negotiable! Too bad too sad if the guy i was dating didn’t like it…another one kicked to the curb . But honestly, i know you love this man so i will pray for you, and i hope you are praying hard for his conversion as well. If you stand up strong in your faith, you just might pull him your way…so don’t give in! Be strong in your faith…it is the one, true faith, and if it means losing a man over (even though it may be really hard) it is worth it! But like i said, if you show that you are strong in your faith, you just might convert him yet

Prayers and hugs your way :hug1:

 

[Truly_Beloved]

Ok, a requirement of the Church if you marry someone of another faith is that the future spouse has to agree to let the children be raised Catholic…it sounds like he is not willing to do this.

Just one tiny little correction here, if I may. The Church does not require the non-Catholic party to agree to raise the children Catholic, I believe. The Catholic party is the one who promises to do everything in their power to raise the children Catholic.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong!

 

[Scottgun]

• that he is accepting of my religion, why can’t i be tolerant of his.

Not to make light of your situation, but there is an old joke about a guy being tempted by the devil and is shown Hell full of wonderful delights, so he sells his soul, when he goes to Hell, it’s as awful as tradtion describes. The guy complains about where are all the great things he saw and the devil replies, “Before you were a prospect, now you are a client.”

Which is to say, sure he is all tolerant when he is courting. How will he be when you are married?

I simply do not see how you can possibly fully connect as a couple should with this giant boulder hovering overhead.

 

[OneAugustKnight]

Just one tiny little correction here, if I may. The Church does not require the non-Catholic party to agree to raise the children Catholic, I believe. The Catholic party is the one who promises to do everything in their power to raise the children Catholic.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong!

I don’t know if it’s a requirement, but when we had our marriage validated in April, one of the questions on the form asked if my husband agreed to have the children raised Catholic. He agreed so it wasn’t discussed any further.

 

[melensdad]

The Catholic party is the one who promises to do everything in their power to raise the children Catholic.

Explain the difference to me these two phrases:

• The Catholic party is the one who promises to raise their children Catholic.
• The Catholic party is the one who promises to do everything in their power to raise their children Catholic.
  I ask for clarification because it seems to me that during baptism you promise to raise your children Catholic. You do not put a conditional phrase on the promise. Further the God Parents make the same promise.

It strikes me there is a substantial difference between making a **conditional **promise and making a real promise. To put a condition on it that states “everything in my power” is actually no different than to say that I will “try” or I will “try my hardest” to do something. It implies that I may fail under some circumstances. On the other hand, to promise is to provide a covenant between yourself and God that you WILL IN FACT do something.

Imagine this if you will:

• I promise to be faithful to you in sickness, and in health . . .
• I promise to try to be faithful to you in sickness, and in health . . .
  Notice any difference?

 

[Truly_Beloved]

Notice any difference?

I do see your point, but my answer was based on this thread in the Ask an Apologist forum:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=28095&highlight=disparity+of+cult

The apologist says (emphasis mine):

Canon 1125 and 1126 state, “The local ordinary can grant a permission of this kind if there is a just and reasonable cause. He is not to grant it unless the following conditions have been fulfilled:

1/ the Catholic party is to declare that he or she is prepared to remove dangers of defecting from the faith and is to make a sincere promise to do all in his or her power so that all offspring are baptized and brought up in the Catholic Church;

2/ the other party is to be informed at an appropriate time about the promises which the Catholic party is to make, in such a way that it is certain that he or she is truly aware of the promise and obligation of the Catholic party;

 

[melensdad]

Truly Beloved:

I do see your point, but. . .

Well I see why you posted that in your answer, but never the less, it is not the promise we make in church. At least not in my parish or in any other I can recall. When I stood as a Godfather, I know that I was asked to make a promise, not a conditional promise. Ditto when I stood as a father.

I suggest that the answer given here by the apologetics is a well intentioned but perhaps not well worded answer. Either that or the words we say in my parish are wrong? But usually the writings of the church are pretty clear, consequently I don’t think *(but admit to know know 110% to be true) *we give “conditional” promises when we make or when we take any of our various vows.

FWIW, this is an interesting read to learn a bit about intent: newadvent.org/cathen/02275a.htm

 

[Truly_Beloved]

Hey, melen, I think I just figured something out…

I’m talking about marriage, and you’re talking about baptism. The promises we make for each of those sacraments are different. Of course, during baptism, the Catholic parent promises to raise the child Catholic, but I think it appears as if that same promise is not required to the same degree during the marriage ceremony when one spouse is Catholic and one is a non-baptized person.

Did I make any sense? :whacky: If not, I’ll chalk it up to “pregnancy brain,” and cease embarrassing myself.

 

[melensdad]

Well perhaps that is part of our issue of slight disagreement. But I was under the impression that the original poster is questioning how to bring up her future children. So from that perspective, if a Muslim father wants to bring up the children with BOTH religions, it seems to me that the whole issue of Baptism comes into question.

In Baptism of an infant we (as proxies for the infant) promise, via the profession of faith, to raise the children as Catholic.
** How can you Baptize a child as a Catholic, make the profession of faith AND also intend to allow the child to be raised 50% in any other faith? **I think that it would be a grave issue because you would be telling a lie when you gave the profession of faith!!!
Think about it for a minute. When you make the profession of faith, which is done in the rite of Baptism, what are you actually saying? Seems to me you are renouncing the devil and evil and you are giving yourself completely to Jesus. As a parent or Godparent, you are making a promise in the child’s name, to do the same. Further, as a parent or Godparent, you are making a promise to guide the child in faith formation and development. So how can you make those statements, those promises, and then allow the child to be raised in 2 completely opposing faiths? **Are you not lying directly to God if you do that?
**
newadvent.org/cathen/02258b.htm

 

[Truly_Beloved]

Coming from that angle, during the baptism itself, it seems we agree, melen!

 

[1ke]

I suggest that the answer given here by the apologetics is a well intentioned but perhaps not well worded answer.

It’s straight out of Canon Law, and I disagree that it is poorly worded.

There was a poster on here who is a very good example of what it means to do “all in your power” to raise them Catholic. His wife divorced him and she left the church and is now getting re-married in the Episocpal Church. She has physical custody of their kids.

She refuses to have anything to do with the Catholic Church and will not take the kids to Mass or CCD. So, he can **ONLY **do what is in his power-- which is to take them to Mass and catechize them when he has them. He can’t do anything about what his wife does with them.

So, yes, the promise is to raise your children Catholic. And, if you do all in your power to do so, you’ve fulfilled your promise. You can’t control what other people do.

 

[Truly_Beloved]

Thank you, 1ke, for expressing what I was attempting to say. Well put.

 

[melensdad]

So, yes, the promise is to raise your children Catholic. And, if you do all in your power to do so, you’ve fulfilled your promise. You can’t control what other people do.

OK, then please scroll up to post #32 and reconcile these issues from WITHIN the context of this potential marriage of a Catholic and a Muslim with the Catholic making a vow during the baptism of their child while still knowing that the child will be raised 50% Muslim?!?

I don’t see how it can be done.

 

[1ke]

OK, then please scroll up to post #32 and reconcile these issues from WITHIN the context of this potential marriage of a Catholic and a Muslim with the Catholic making a vow during the baptism of their child while still knowing that the child will be raised 50% Muslim?!?

I don’t see how it can be done.

I wasn’t attempting to place this in the context of the idea of raising a child as “both”. I’ve already told her she cannot do that.

 

[Dorothy]

First, thank you Gerry and Peter for your replies. Gerry - that’s something that has weighed heavy on my mind for a while. We’ve had a long in-depth conversation as to why he converted. He told me he had questions that could not be answered in Christianity and did research. (I later found out all the research he did was from Muslim reading material, etc., so I believe that’s a bit one-sided). I feel as though he lost his faith, as people sometimes do. But rather than trying to find it and renew his relationship with Jesus, he turned from it.
He is happy being Muslim; he says it changed his life. And I respect that because he’s in touch with his faith and his spirituality. But I just don’t know if I can continue to grow in mine with him going another direction.

As far as children, we have discussed this, and he wants our children to be raised knowing both faiths, and then making the decision for themselves. I don’t particularly like that idea - maybe because my household, my father was the spiritual leader in our home and we all grew in our faith and learned about it together. But we have to compromise.

I guess I’m hoping that this is a phase, that he’ll turm back to Christ, and we’ll live happily ever after.

To have to compromise about something so important as your Catholic faith is very serious. The Catholic party in such a mixed marriage promises verbally to raise the children Catholic. He has stated that the children should be exposed to both faiths. That will be very confusing to the children.

Prayerfully consider if this is what you want to look forward to in the future.

 

[Truly_Beloved]

OK, then please scroll up to post #32 and reconcile these issues from WITHIN the context of this potential marriage of a Catholic and a Muslim with the Catholic making a vow during the baptism of their child while still knowing that the child will be raised 50% Muslim?!?

I don’t see how it can be done.

If the couple in question were to actually get married (which has not been decided on, as far as I know), the lady would have to promise to do everything in her power to raise any future children Catholic. True, she can’t (and wouldn’t, from what I gather) go in to that promise thinking, “I don’t care, we’ll just do it 50/50.” Having that attitude wouldn’t be “doing everything in your power” to assure that the children are raised Catholic.

Does that build a better bridge of understanding between us?

 

[melensdad]

I wasn’t attempting to place this in the context of the idea of raising a child as “both”.

Clearly this can’t be done, we can all agree on that, but that is the context of this thread, is it not?

Beyond that ‘minor’ issue it still strikes me that there are overwhelming issues that have not been explored in depth here, but based on the differences between Catholics and Muslims, the two joining in marriage, seems to me to be a recipe for future divorce and very confused children. No different than the mixture of some of the other faiths, talked about here, but certainly the differences are magnified between the Catholics and any non-Christian faith.

I am very blessed to be involved in a “mixed” marriage, but one with a wife who while she chooses not to join the Catholic faith, is very supportive of not just raising our daughter as Catholic but also is very supportive of our parish school and our parish in general. We were at dinner with our parish priest when he found out she was not Catholic and he was completely shocked by the revelation since she participates actively in the parish and comes to mass. I would also say that the fact that she is an Episcipalian probably makes things easy because they are the closest thing to a Catholic that is non-Catholic, their masses are nearly the same and many of their rituals are nearly the same.

Marriage is very difficult to do right. We’ve both 46 and been married for 22+ years now. I can’t imagine that we could have stayed together if we had huge difference on major life issues, let alone major differences on ETERNAL issues.