Catholics and Muslims? HELP!

[gam3rchic]

Wait, I’m really confused now :whacky:

Ok, I always thought that when a couple gets married in the Catholic Church that if one isn’t Catholic, that he/she has to agree to let the Catholic spouse raise the children Catholic…is this correct??? I dunno…been a long day and maybe i’m not thinking clear…but I coulda swore when I was doing pre-Cana that I read that somewhere…maybe i’m just tired from doing lots of chores for chorewars!

At any rate, since the Muslim man the OP is dating wants to raise the children 50/50, that is unacceptable on several levels.

 

[Jay2]

Does this help or hurt… I don’t know:

I’ve been trying to say this since 9-11, but you worry me. I wish you didn’t. I wish when I walked down the streets of this country that I love, that your color and culture still blended with the beautiful human landscape we enjoy in this country. But you don’t blend in anymore. I notice you, and it worries me.

I notice you because I can’t help it anymore. People from your homelands, professing to be Muslims, have been attacking and killing my fellow citizens and our friends for more than 20 years now. I don’t fully understand their grievances and hate, but I know that nothing can justify the inhumanity of their attacks. On September 11, nineteen ARAB-MUSLIMS hijacked four jetliners in my country. They cut the throats of women in front of children and brutally stabbed to death others. They took control of those planes and crashed them into buildings killing thousands of proud fathers, loving sons, wise grandparents, elegant daughters, best friends, favorite coaches, fearless public servants, and children’s mothers.

The Palestinians Celebrated, The Iraqis were overjoyed as was most of the Arab world. So, I notice you now. I don’t want to be worried. I don’t want to be consumed by the same rage and hate and prejudice that has destroyed the soul of these terrorists. But I need your help.

As a rational American, trying to protect my country and family in an irrational and unsafe world, I must know how to tell the difference between you, and the Arab/Muslim terrorist. How do I differentiate between the true Arab/Muslim-Americans and the Arab/Muslim terrorists in our communities who are attending our schools, enjoying our parks, and living in OUR communities under the protection of OUR constitution, while they plot the next attack that will slaughter these same good neighbors and children? The events of September 11th changed the answer. It is not my responsibility to determine which of you embraces our great country, with ALL of its religions, with ALL of its different citizens, with all of its faults. It is time for every Arab/Muslim in this country to determine it for me.

I want to know, I demand to know, and I have a right to know, whether or not you love America. Do you pledge allegiance to its flag? Do you proudly display it in front of your house, or on your car? Do you pray in your many daily prayers that Allah will bless this nation, that He will protect and prosper it? Or do you pray that Allah with destroy it in one of your Jihads?

Are you thankful for the freedom that only this nation affords? A freedom that was paid for by the blood of hundreds of thousands of patriots who gave their lives for this country? Are you willing to preserve this freedom by also paying the ultimate sacrifice? Do you love America ? If this is your commitment, then I need YOU to start letting ME know about it.

Your Muslim leaders in this nation should be flooding the media at this time with hard facts on your faith, and what hard actions you are taking as a community and as a religion to protect the United States of America. Please, no more benign overtures of regret for the death of the innocent because I worry about who you regard as innocent. No more benign overtures of condemnation for the unprovoked attacks because I worry about what is unprovoked to you. I am not interested in any more sympathy. I am only interested in action. What will you do for America - our great country - at this time of crisis, at this time of war? I want to see Arab-Muslims waving the AMERICAN flag in the streets. I want to hear you chanting "Allah Bless America " I want to see young Arab/Muslim men enlisting in the military. I want to see a commitment of money, time, and emotion to the victims of this butchering and to this nation as a whole.

 

[Jay2]

Help or Hurt Part II:

The FBI has a list of over 400 people they want to talk to regarding the WTC attack. Many of these people live and socialize right now in Muslim communities. You know them. You know where they are. Hand them over to us, now! But I have seen little even approaching this sort of action. Instead I have seen an already closed and secretive community close even tighter. You have disappeared from the streets. You have posted armed security guards at your facilities. You have threatened lawsuits. You have screamed for protection from reprisals. The very few Arab/Muslim representatives that HAVE appeared in the media were defensive and equivocating. They seemed more concerned with making sure that the United States proves who was responsible before taking action. They seemed more concerned with protecting their fellow Muslims from violence directed towards them in the United States and abroad than they did with supporting our country and denouncing “leaders” like Khadafi, Hussein, Farrakhan, and Arafat.

If the true teachings of Islam proclaim tolerance and peace and love for all people, then I want chapter and verse from the Koran and statements from popular Muslim leaders to back it up. What good is it if the teachings in the Koran are good, and pure, and true, when your “leaders” are teaching fanatical interpretations, terrorism, and intolerance? It matters little how good Islam SHOULD BE if huge numbers of the world’s Muslims interpret the teachings of Mohammed incorrectly and adhere to a degenerative form of the religion. A form that has been demonstrated to us over and over again. A form whose structure is built upon a foundation of violence, death, and suicide. A form whose members are recruited from the prisons around the world. A form whose members (some as young as five years old) are seen day after day, week in and week out, year after a year, marching in the streets around the world, burning effigies of our presidents, burning the American flag, shooting weapons into the air. A form whose members convert from a peaceful religion, only to take up arms against the great United States of America, the country of their birth. A form whose rules are so twisted, that their traveling members refuse to show their faces at airport security checkpoints, in the name of Islam.

 

[1ke]

Wait, I’m really confused now :whacky:

Ok, I always thought that when a couple gets married in the Catholic Church that if one isn’t Catholic, that he/she has to agree to let the Catholic spouse raise the children Catholic…is this correct???

No. The non-Catholic does not make a promise. They must be informed of the Catholic’s promise.

 

[melensdad]

No. The non-Catholic does not make a promise. They must be informed of the Catholic’s promise.

As accurate as these type of answer are, how do they help in real life?

Seriously a question about how to raise your children should be discusses & decided BEFORE marriage and again confirmed in pre cana classes. This is not a light matter. How can, during Baptism, the parents/Godparents make vows if they know that the issue is not decided, or worse yet if the actual intent is not to raise the children Catholic but in fact to raise them under 2 disparate religions? I suggest it cannot honestly be done. If it cannot honestly be done, then it is done with a lie to God.

 

[gam3rchic]

No. The non-Catholic does not make a promise. They must be informed of the Catholic’s promise.

But if the Catholic spouse promises to raise the children Catholic, what good is it if the non-catholic spouse doesn’t agree as well? I guess that’s where I’m getting confused. If the non-catholic says, no, we are gonna expose them to both religions while the catholic says he/she will raise the children catholic, it can’t be both ways…know what i’m saying?? That’s why I always thought that the non-catholic party had to agree to let the catholic raise the children in the faith. I dunno…

 

[melensdad]

From the original poster, here is the crux of the issue:

As far as children, we have discussed this, and he wants our children to be raised knowing both faiths, and then making the decision for themselves.

And here is a basic synopsys of concern for the children, which has been expressed by several people in slighlty different ways:

But if the Catholic spouse promises to raise the children Catholic, what good is it if the non-catholic spouse doesn’t agree as well? I guess that’s where I’m getting confused. If the non-catholic says, no, we are gonna expose them to both religions while the catholic says he/she will raise the children catholic, it can’t be both ways…

From the stanpoint of baptism, is seems pretty clear that you can’t promise to God that you will raise your children as Catholic if, in fact, you fully intend (or allow) them to be raised with 2 totally different faiths.

Here is another major issue to consider from the original poster:

He is happy being Muslim; he says it changed his life. And I respect that because he’s in touch with his faith and his spirituality.** But I just don’t know if I can continue to grow in mine with him going another direction.**

If gem54 doesn’t know if she can continue to grow in her own faith, then it seems obvious that the two faiths are not compatible and this marriage is going to end up with the loss of one Catholic who is probalby going to give up her own religion or give up her children to a different religion.

 

[1ke]

But if the Catholic spouse promises to raise the children Catholic, what good is it if the non-catholic spouse doesn’t agree as well? I guess that’s where I’m getting confused. If the non-catholic says, no, we are gonna expose them to both religions while the catholic says he/she will raise the children catholic, it can’t be both ways…know what i’m saying?? That’s why I always thought that the non-catholic party had to agree to let the catholic raise the children in the faith. I dunno…

I’m just telling you what the canon law requirement is. The non-Catholic does not have to sign any kind of paper.

However, remember the Catholic still has to apply for and receive a dispensation in order to marry outside the faith. If there is any doubt about the Catholic’s ability to exercise their religion freely and raise the children Catholic the dispensation should not be given-- which is also stated in canon law.

I’m not even exactly sure why everyone’s jumping on me regarding the reply I gave. It in no way implies I support mixed marriage. In fact the opposite is true. I’m probably the most staunch anti-mixed marriage poster on this board. I regularly get reamed for my inflexibility on the matter. I personally believe the church should not allow ANY catholic to enter into a mixed marriage, ever. Period. The only situation in which a mixed marriage should be tolerated is if an already married person converts to the Catholic faith. But, the Church allows for deviation from the norm-- for pastoral reasons-- and so people do enter into these marriages, no matter how ill advised they are.

 

[Dorothy]

But if the Catholic spouse promises to raise the children Catholic, what good is it if the non-catholic spouse doesn’t agree as well? I guess that’s where I’m getting confused. If the non-catholic says, no, we are gonna expose them to both religions while the catholic says he/she will raise the children catholic, it can’t be both ways…know what i’m saying?? That’s why I always thought that the non-catholic party had to agree to let the catholic raise the children in the faith. I dunno…

You are correct. There needs to be a verbal agreement, if not written. This most definitely needs to be discussed between the two planning to get married and the priest. This needs to be squared away before any marriage takes place. And, the Catholic party should not conceal the attitude of the non-Catholic party from the priest.

 

[gam3rchic]

I’m just telling you what the canon law requirement is. The non-Catholic does not have to sign any kind of paper.

However, remember the Catholic still has to apply for and receive a dispensation in order to marry outside the faith. If there is any doubt about the Catholic’s ability to exercise their religion freely and raise the children Catholic the dispensation should not be given-- which is also stated in canon law.

I’m not even exactly sure why everyone’s jumping on me regarding the reply I gave. It in no way implies I support mixed marriage. In fact the opposite is true. I’m probably the most staunch anti-mixed marriage poster on this board. I regularly get reamed for my inflexibility on the matter. I personally believe the church should not allow ANY catholic to enter into a mixed marriage, ever. Period. The only situation in which a mixed marriage should be tolerated is if an already married person converts to the Catholic faith. But, the Church allows for deviation from the norm-- for pastoral reasons-- and so people do enter into these marriages, no matter how ill advised they are.

Sorry, didn’t mean to jump on you…just was a bit confused…happens a lot to me

I also am not thrilled about mixed marriages in general, especially when two religions are prettey opposite, like what the OP is going through with Catholicism and Islam. I could see maybe a Catholic and a really conservative Protestant working out, but when you got two conflicting religions like Christianity and Islam, I dunno, seems like a recipe for disaster, especially when kids come into play.

 

[OneAugustKnight]

i have dreamed my whole life of getting married in my church by my pastor and raising my children as Catholics. any advice would be much apppreciated.

Just one other thing. If you marry a Muslim a lot of normal people will shy away from pursuing a friendship with you. Imagine how weird it would be to tell people your husband is a shaman or Druid or a voodoo priest. It’s kind of like that.

 

[Tiber_Squid]

Sorry, didn’t mean to jump on you…just was a bit confused…happens a lot to me

I also am not thrilled about mixed marriages in general, especially when two religions are prettey opposite, like what the OP is going through with Catholicism and Islam. I could see maybe a Catholic and a really conservative Protestant working out, but when you got two conflicting religions like Christianity and Islam, I dunno, seems like a recipe for disaster, especially when kids come into play.

My wife and I met in college – I was an evangelical protestant and she a cradle catholic. The question or marriage let me to consider dropping what I’ve seen now as some anti-catholic stereotypes and misguided theology. I grew up loving Jesus but now have the fullness of the truth in the Church. As a catholic and an evangelical, we knew even living that out as faithful Christians wouldn’t work. I couldn’t imagine Catholic-Islam. The issue of canon-law issues makes it worse. The biggest issue IMHO is that not only is he Muslim but he rejected Christianity and Jesus. Someone raised in the Muslim world is one thing – but from Christianity, there’s a lot of questions. I don’t want to be judgmental and won’t address his situation personally. However, there are major issues with such a situation – why did he convert and how well does that bode for things down the road?