Catholics and Protestants: Let's us deal with each other on our own terms

[Devereuks879]

In order for unity to be achieved within our two groups, we are going to have to deal with each other on our own terms. By this, I mean that both groups must address what the other side is actually claiming, not a straw man.

Ex: “Catholics worship Mary”, which pretty much implies that by honoring Mary that we are detracting from Jesus or at worse, replaced the One Mediator with a creature. Of course, no Catholic actually believes this, given our distinctions between dulia, hyperdulia and latria. But most Protestants do not share this distinction so it is their perception that we are giving Mary latria honor since there’s only latria honor in the Protestant world.

Ex: “Protestants believe that God is a polygamist since they have soooooo many churches.”
Protestants have a different view of the church–it’s not limited to an institution but rather to a body of believers. Within this body of believers, these believers attend different denomination but the church is still viewed as one. They don’t believe that there is more than one Body of Christ or another Bride but the difference is how the Body of the Christ explained. However, Catholics believe that Christ established one Church, one Bride and no denominations while He was on earth hence why we view the denominations differently.

My point is that we have to deal with the real points and empathize with each other’s perspectives. I’m not suggesting indifferentism or relativism but dialogue where information and understanding can be achieved.

 

[Dave_Noonan]

In order for unity to be achieved within our two groups, we are going to have to deal with each other on our own terms. By this, I mean that both groups must address what the other side is actually claiming, not a straw man.

Ex: “Catholics worship Mary”, which pretty much implies that by honoring Mary that we are detracting from Jesus or at worse, replaced the One Mediator with a creature. Of course, no Catholic actually believes this, given our distinctions between dulia, hyperdulia and latria. But most Protestants do not share this distinction so it is their perception that we are giving Mary latria honor since there’s only latria honor in the Protestant world.

Ex: “Protestants believe that God is a polygamist since they have soooooo many churches.”
Protestants have a different view of the church–it’s not limited to an institution but rather to a body of believers. Within this body of believers, these believers attend different denomination but the church is still viewed as one. They don’t believe that there is more than one Body of Christ or another Bride but the difference is how the Body of the Christ explained. However, Catholics believe that Christ established one Church, one Bride and no denominations while He was on earth hence why we view the denominations differently.

My point is that we have to deal with the real points and empathize with each other’s perspectives. I’m not suggesting indifferentism or relativism but dialogue where information and understanding can be achieved.

Good points. For there to be dialogue we have to first discover what really divides us. I for one do not think that Catholics worship Mary; never have.

I think one helpful step would be to ban the word “Protestant” from our discussions. This is one common step in creating straw men. Protestantism–if there is such a thing beyond a sort of general category of non-Catholic Western Christianity–is so diverse that as soon a someone makes the statement “Protestants believe X or Y…” (beyond almost universal doctrines such as the Trinity) the statement is bound to be erroneous and will create confusion and misunderstanding.

 

[Hiskid1973]

I think one helpful step would be to ban the word “Protestant” from our discussions. This is one common step in creating straw men. Protestantism–if there is such a thing beyond a sort of general category of non-Catholic Western Christianity–is so diverse that as soon a someone makes the statement “Protestants believe X or Y…” (beyond almost universal doctrines such as the Trinity) the statement is bound to be erroneous and will create confusion and misunderstanding.

Makes sense as we are so far removed…I was far from God and had a radical conversion experience in Aug. of 1973…He has kept me through some tough times over the years…I share the message of His salvation and encouragement to those He puts in my path…Your right about the “church”. I see that as all who are "in Christ…Living stones…We all have christians who are hot/lukewarm and those cold to Him among us all…Sitting in pews around us…One day some will be taken and others left behind…The Bride of Christ will meet Him in the clouds, it will be those who trust in Christ no matter what name is on the church sign…He told some to depart for He never “knew” them…To “now” is and intimate relationship…

 

[ignatius777]

Good points. For there to be dialogue we have to first discover what really divides us. I for one do not think that Catholics worship Mary; never have.

I think one helpful step would be to ban the word “Protestant” from our discussions. This is one common step in creating straw men. Protestantism–if there is such a thing beyond a sort of general category of non-Catholic Western Christianity–is so diverse that as soon a someone makes the statement “Protestants believe X or Y…” (beyond almost universal doctrines such as the Trinity) the statement is bound to be erroneous and will create confusion and misunderstanding.

From my experience many “non-catholics” view catholics as non christians and therefore “not saved”. As a rsult they see nothing that we share in common with them. In my opinion the first step would be to identify on what matters do catholics and non-catholic christians agree. I hate to be a pessimist but I bet we get very few non catholic christians to engage in that conversation.

Just as a matter of discussion I have had non catholic “christians” call me a pagan; papist; heretic and the best one…spawn of satan. In that environment what I’m called and what I call non catholics seems insignificant.

 

[Nicea325]

In order for unity to be achieved within our two groups, we are going to have to deal with each other on our own terms. By this, I mean that both groups must address what the other side is actually claiming, not a straw man.

Ex: “Catholics worship Mary”, which pretty much implies that by honoring Mary that we are detracting from Jesus or at worse, replaced the One Mediator with a creature. Of course, no Catholic actually believes this, given our distinctions between dulia, hyperdulia and latria. But most Protestants do not share this distinction so it is their perception that we are giving Mary latria honor since there’s only latria honor in the Protestant world.

Ex: “Protestants believe that God is a polygamist since they have soooooo many churches.”
Protestants have a different view of the church–it’s not limited to an institution but rather to a body of believers. Within this body of believers, these believers attend different denomination but the church is still viewed as one. They don’t believe that there is more than one Body of Christ or another Bride but the difference is how the Body of the Christ explained. However, Catholics believe that Christ established one Church, one Bride and no denominations while He was on earth hence why we view the denominations differently.

My point is that we have to deal with the real points and empathize with each other’s perspectives. I’m not suggesting indifferentism or relativism but dialogue where information and understanding can be achieved.

Good starting point. I agree with what you had to say…

 

[Dymphna82]

Had this exact argument with my boyfriend yesterday, who’s Born Again. Mind you, I spent well over a decade as a Pagan and was only coming back to the church the past few weeks. I went to mass yesterday and confession, where I was absolved of all my sins.

I come home, talk to him online and he’s all, “lol, how many Hail Maries do you have to do?” and we later got into an argument about 1 Timothy 2:5 and other stuff that, as someone just relearning, am not fit to argue against.

I felt frustrated and angry. And I felt like, well, there’s really not much of a future for us, is there?

Only solution I have right now is that I’ve had him promise not to bring it up again. He’s going to continue believing what he does regardless, but I don’t have to hear about that.

From my perspective, I feel that God is the one who knows for certain. If the Catholic church is, after all of the years, wrong, then he’ll sort it out. If not, then he’ll sort it out. Beyond that, I just feel like it’s a never ending contest of who loves Jesus more.

 

[Mikeoffaith]

In order for unity to be achieved within our two groups, we are going to have to deal with each other on our own terms. By this, I mean that both groups must address what the other side is actually claiming, not a straw man.

Ex: “Catholics worship Mary”, which pretty much implies that by honoring Mary that we are detracting from Jesus or at worse, replaced the One Mediator with a creature. Of course, no Catholic actually believes this, given our distinctions between dulia, hyperdulia and latria. But most Protestants do not share this distinction so it is their perception that we are giving Mary latria honor since there’s only latria honor in the Protestant world.

Ex: “Protestants believe that God is a polygamist since they have soooooo many churches.”
Protestants have a different view of the church–it’s not limited to an institution but rather to a body of believers. Within this body of believers, these believers attend different denomination but the church is still viewed as one. They don’t believe that there is more than one Body of Christ or another Bride but the difference is how the Body of the Christ explained. However, Catholics believe that Christ established one Church, one Bride and no denominations while He was on earth hence why we view the denominations differently.

My point is that we have to deal with the real points and empathize with each other’s perspectives. I’m not suggesting indifferentism or relativism but dialogue where information and understanding can be achieved.

I think this a great idea. Lutherans and Roman Catholics have been doing this on an official level for nearly 40 years.

 

[Apollos]

My point is that we have to deal with the real points and empathize with each other’s perspectives. I’m not suggesting indifferentism or relativism but dialogue where information and understanding can be achieved.

Wonderful! We’ve been doing this for 500 years. Eventually it will work, don’t you think?

 

[Mikeoffaith]

My point is that we have to deal with the real points and empathize with each other’s perspectives. I’m not suggesting indifferentism or relativism but dialogue where information and understanding can be achieved.

Wonderful! We’ve been doing this for 500 years. Eventually it will work, don’t you think?

Oh I don’t think we can even start discussing real points or empathize with each other’s perspectives in any real dialogue until we have some kind of consensus on the meanings of basic words in the English language. Clearly, from the get go we have a different understanding of the words “dialogue”, “empathize”, and “other”. Eventually, we might even be able to speak the same language and actually talk about relevant points.

 

[John1]

Good points. For there to be dialogue we have to first discover what really divides us. I for one do not think that Catholics worship Mary; never have.

I think one helpful step would be to ban the word “Protestant” from our discussions. This is one common step in creating straw men. Protestantism–if there is such a thing beyond a sort of general category of non-Catholic Western Christianity–is so diverse that as soon a someone makes the statement “Protestants believe X or Y…” (beyond almost universal doctrines such as the Trinity) the statement is bound to be erroneous and will create confusion and misunderstanding.

This could be a wonderful conversation among brethren in Christ. I agree that the word Protestant should be avoided during this convesation and I would also hope the term “Catholic” could be avoided as well. Maybe we could just refer to each other as Christians.

Okay Christians, let’s start listing the things that we believe in common:

1. We believe that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God.
2. We believe that Jesus was sinless.
3. We believe that Jesus was born from a virgin named Mary.
4. We believe that Jesus lived, was crucified and died, and was ressurected.
5. We beleive that the Bible is the (name removed by moderator)ired Word of God, without error.

Okay, somebody else add to the list…please.

 

[Apollos]

we have a different understanding of the words “dialogue”, “empathize”, and “other”

Not to mention “grace”, “faith”, “canon”, and “authority”.

 

[Izdaari]

Okay Christians, let’s start listing the things that we believe in common:

1. We believe that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God.
2. We believe that Jesus was sinless.
3. We believe that Jesus was born from a virgin named Mary.
4. We believe that Jesus lived, was crucified and died, and was ressurected.
5. We beleive that the Bible is the (name removed by moderator)ired Word of God, without error.

Okay, somebody else add to the list…please.

That works for you, a Catholic Christian, and for me, a non-Catholic Christian. But those are the Fundamentals of the Christian faith: does that make us Fundamentalists? :bible1: :hypno:

 

[John1]

That works for you, a Catholic Christian, and for me, a non-Catholic Christian. But those are the Fundamentals of the Christian faith: does that make us Fundamentalists? :bible1: :hypno:

You gotta start somewhere.

 

[Chris_Etzel]

This could be a wonderful conversation among brethren in Christ. I agree that the word Protestant should be avoided during this convesation and I would also hope the term “Catholic” could be avoided as well. Maybe we could just refer to each other as Christians.

Okay Christians, let’s start listing the things that we believe in common:

1. We believe that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God.
2. We believe that Jesus was sinless.
3. We believe that Jesus was born from a virgin named Mary.
4. We believe that Jesus lived, was crucified and died, and was ressurected.
5. We beleive that the Bible is the (name removed by moderator)ired Word of God, without error.

Okay, somebody else add to the list…please.

1. We believe in the power of Prayer
2. We believe in eternal life with God
3. We all believe John 3:16
4. We believe in the sainthood of believers.
5. We believe in the Trinity

 

[John1]

1. We believe in the power of Prayer
2. We believe in eternal life with God
3. We all believe John 3:16
4. We believe in the sainthood of believers.
5. We believe in the Trinity

This is great, let’s keep going!

 

[ignatius777]

Had this exact argument with my boyfriend yesterday, who’s Born Again. Mind you, I spent well over a decade as a Pagan and was only coming back to the church the past few weeks. I went to mass yesterday and confession, where I was absolved of all my sins.

I come home, talk to him online and he’s all, “lol, how many Hail Maries do you have to do?” and we later got into an argument about 1 Timothy 2:5 and other stuff that, as someone just relearning, am not fit to argue against.

I felt frustrated and angry. And I felt like, well, there’s really not much of a future for us, is there?

Only solution I have right now is that I’ve had him promise not to bring it up again. He’s going to continue believing what he does regardless, but I don’t have to hear about that.

From my perspective, I feel that God is the one who knows for certain. If the Catholic church is, after all of the years, wrong, then he’ll sort it out. If not, then he’ll sort it out. Beyond that, I just feel like it’s a never ending contest of who loves Jesus more.

Yes it can be VERY frustrating!!! Amen for your confesion and attending Mas. Welcome home!!! We missed you.

Just deal patiently with your boyfriend and pray for God to show him the truth

 

[Redratfish]

1. We believe in the power of Prayer
2. We believe in eternal life with God
3. We all believe John 3:16
4. We believe in the sainthood of believers.
5. We believe in the Trinity

Hate to toss in the first wrench, but Im pretty sure some Baptists do not accept saints. I have yet to see a Baptist Church with St. In front of its name.

 

[John1]

Hate to toss in the first wrench, but Im pretty sure some Baptists do not accept saints. I have yet to see a Baptist Church with St. In front of its name.

I think that the Baptist do actually believe in saints. I might be wrong, but I think that the Baptists believe that all followers of Christ are saints. Obviously I don’t think that they recognize the Canonization (may be spelled wrong) of saints.

 

[pipper]

I think that the Baptist do actually believe in saints. I might be wrong, but I think that the Baptists believe that all followers of Christ are saints. Obviously I don’t think that they recognize the Canonization (may be spelled wrong) of saints.

Baptists beleive in saints lower case s as all baptised Christians, and that is how the New Testament defines a saint. They dont canonise Saints upper case s.

I have seen a lot of Baptist churches named for Saints, they are often African American in membership, predominately.

 

[John1]

Baptists beleive in saints lower case s as all baptised Christians, and that is how the New Testament defines a saint. They dont canonise Saints upper case s.

I have seen a lot of Baptist churches named for Saints, they are often African American in membership, predominately.

Thanks for clearing that up. So far we have managed to list the following things that Christians believe in common:

1. We believe that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God.
2. We believe that Jesus was sinless.
3. We believe that Jesus was born from a virgin named Mary.
4. We believe that Jesus lived, was crucified and died, and was resurrected.
5. We believe that the Bible is the Inspired Word of God, without error.
6. We believe in the power of Prayer
7. We believe in eternal life with God
8. We all believe John 3:16
9. We believe in the sainthood of believers.
10. We believe in the Trinity.

I’ll bet we can come up with a lot more things to add to the list. Lets make as long of a list as we can!