Catholic's and Protestants you better listen up!!

[rinnie]

I am not a Muslem, nor do I even know very many Muslems. But I have studied the faith rather extensively (to learn, not to convert) and I can tell you that it is a beautiful religion not unlike Judaism or Catholicism. All three faiths have the same roots.

I don’t know if the anti-Muslem sentiments center on the 9/11 attacks, and other forms of terrorism, but if you spoke with a common Muslem devotee, they would tell you what a horrible interpretation of the Koran those terrorists have followed, in their behaviors, actions, professed ideologies, etc.

You know this word that is used in the media: “Jihad” ? It is used in the following context: “Muslems claimed responsibility for the attacks of September 11th, referring to their Jihad against the American way of life.”

I heard a young woman who was born and raised a Muslem here in the U.S., speaking about the word “Jihad” on NPR. I felt so very sad for her experience.

She said that “Jihad” is an Arabic word, and it is used in the following context, from a parent to a child: “Go to school today and make a Jihad for our family. Get an ‘A’ on your test.” Also: “The volunteer work you are doing helps so very many of those who are less fortunate than us. What a jihad you have made.”

She said that a large part of her ethnic, cultural and religious pride was bound up in the various “Jihads” she and her family undertook, and that this beautiful and time-honored word has been robbed from them, by zealots whose behavior they find to be as reprehensible and horrific as we do.

Most Muslems neither support nor understand the actions of terrorists. Just because these terrorists define themselves as Muslems, and claim their actions are directed by the Koran, does not mean there is merit to their claims, nor a scholarly basis to them.

It would make a Jewish person or a Christian person very sad indeed if someone of one of the Judeo-Christian faiths acted out such crimes of aggression, then pointed to receiving their direction from the Bible. Readers of the Bible would know those individuals were sorely misguided, most likely mentally ill.

I believe each of the terrorists we’ve heard about in the news, are, indeed, suffering from mental illness, and that is quite separate from their religion. It’s a shame they’ve given an entire religion such a bad name. It is not deserved. It’s a religion of peace. It is a different religion from Christianity, but it is not one that directs its followers to violence, unrest, or other forms of behavior that would disrupt anyone.

The only thing I found offensive in reading the Koran was the belief that a dog is filthy and ought not be allowed in the family home. I don’t know where they get this from; I love dogs and believe they bring such warmth and love to a home!

Peace to each one of you.

Wow! If that is the only problem you have with the faith then I don’t know what else to say.

I unlike you have not studied it that extensive. But I do have a bigger problem then with the dogs.

My number one problem is the Qur’an rejects clearly the mystery of the Incarnation. That to me would be harder to accept then the dog not being allowed in the family home.

 

[manualman]

Light1111,

On the topic of the PEOPLE (muslims), I agree with you 100%. On the topic of the actual teachings of Islam, as practised by the epitome of humans by muslim standards - Muhammed, I cannot comprehend your enthusiasm.

You really find nothing abhorrent in the teaching that a man can have multiple wives? Nothing there seems to you to denigrate the personhood of woman compared to man?

You have no objection to the general and apparently permanent sanction of violence against the infidel (defined as those who aren’t muslims, Jews or Christians) as a means of spreading Islam?

You have no objection to the permanent establishment of dhimmi class citizenship for Jews and Christians in nations dominated by Islam?

The worst thing you see is a bad view of dogs??! The worst thing I see is a well intentioned system of morality invented by a flawed man in the 7th century that (unfortunately) permanently enshrines his own moral flaws as righteousness.

Unlike the flawed characters of Judeo-Christian Scriptures (aside from Jesus and Mary, of course), Muhammed is thought to be the flawless and perfect example of what a man fully submitted to Allah would be like. Abraham’s sins do not embarass christians since our theology fully admits his (and our) need for a Savior. Islam cannot admit that Muhammed committed sins. I’m no Islamic scholar, mind you, so feel free to point out where I misunderstand.

 

[Kaninchen]

How ever you want to project it. But the purpose of the thread is the world as we know it is changing. And will be alot different very soon.

If you feel that these projections are wrong, that is fine. But my point is I think that we always thought our world as we know it would never really change. Maybe it never will:shrug:

The one thing one can say with some certainty about the future is that it’s likely to be different.

When I was born, mobs of young people were charging around China carrying little red books and China was going to be the end of the world as we know it. Then, when I was older (I’m European, remember) it was going to be Soviet Tanks, American cruise missiles, ‘star wars’ and Nuclear holocaust. Then the Soviet Empire collapsed. Then American pundits told us it was ‘the end of history’ and the future was life, liberty and the pursuit of the ‘American Way’, then it was Muslims.

So, rinnie, I’m not impressed by future-gazing and chasing around trying to discover the most possibly dire of all possibly dire nightmares of the future.

Especially when a lot of it sounds terribly, terribly familiar to a European Jew with some knowledge of history.

 

[rinnie]

Light1111,

On the topic of the PEOPLE (muslims), I agree with you 100%. On the topic of the actual teachings of Islam, as practised by the epitome of humans by muslim standards - Muhammed, I cannot comprehend your enthusiasm.

You really find nothing abhorrent in the teaching that a man can have multiple wives? Nothing there seems to you to denigrate the personhood of woman compared to man?

You have no objection to the general and apparently permanent sanction of violence against the infidel (defined as those who aren’t muslims, Jews or Christians) as a means of spreading Islam?

You have no objection to the permanent establishment of dhimmi class citizenship for Jews and Christians in nations dominated by Islam?

The worst thing you see is a bad view of dogs??! The worst thing I see is a well intentioned system of morality invented by a flawed man in the 7th century that (unfortunately) permanently enshrines his own moral flaws as righteousness.

Unlike the flawed characters of Judeo-Christian Scriptures (aside from Jesus and Mary, of course), Muhammed is thought to be the flawless and perfect example of what a man fully submitted to Allah would be like. Abraham’s sins do not embarass christians since our theology fully admits his (and our) need for a Savior. Islam cannot admit that Muhammed committed sins. I’m no Islamic scholar, mind you, so feel free to point out where I misunderstand.

Please understand I do not say that I do not or could not love them either. That is not what my Post is about. My Post is about what they are teaching. The idea of my post is that sooner or later there will be many of them.

And when they come, (and they will) WE MUST be ready to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ to them. All I am asking is one simple question. (ARE OUR CHILDREN TODAY, right NOW, ready to defend our faith.

All I am saying is FOR ME PERSONALLY to open MY EYES was to see that WE as Christians must TEACH our Children today, because if we are to leave this world, and they did not get it from home will they find the CC without us.

Don’t get me wrong I Believe they will, but without our teaching them now, they will have to search. And I for one always took for granted that they would know. But because My Dad made it a point to teach, and live his faith, I know the FAITH. MY whole family knew where the truth is.

But many in my family have strayed away from that faith. And many of their Children may have a long search ahead of them. Why? Simple because their parents knew the truth, but somehow fell away from it. And if it could happen to my family trust me it can happen to any family.

But my point is they always ASSUMED that their kids knew. When they themself may not be able to defend our faith. Its just we have taken so much for granted. Lets not let it be our faith anymore.

And we must yes, teach our Children to love and accept EVERYONE. But we better be able to defend our faith, and teach them to, before its too late. Because as much as we are to LOVE one another, we still must stand up for the Church and for Christ. That is all I am saying.

They need to know what this faith is teaching, and what is different. IT must be taught.

 

[rinnie]

The one thing one can say with some certainty about the future is that it’s likely to be different.

When I was born, mobs of young people were charging around China carrying little red books and China was going to be the end of the world as we know it. Then, when I was older (I’m European, remember) it was going to be Soviet Tanks, American cruise missiles, ‘star wars’ and Nuclear holocaust. Then the Soviet Empire collapsed. Then American pundits told us it was ‘the end of history’ and the future was life, liberty and the pursuit of the ‘American Way’, then it was Muslims.

So, rinnie, I’m not impressed by future-gazing and chasing around trying to discover the most possibly dire of all possibly dire nightmares of the future.

Especially when a lot of it sounds terribly, terribly familiar to a European Jew with some knowledge of history.

Maybe you are right buddy, But you have to remember also. At the time you went through all of this you saw such a different world then us.

And forgive me for saying this, No disrespect but you had it alot harder then us. Hard is not something our kids really know or understand. Everything was given to them, even their faith. They never had to defend it, What I am saying is it may come to that. I mean really come to that in our own country.

And I do not mean with guns, bombs, and violence. I am talking Education.

 

[Kaninchen]

Maybe you are right buddy, But you have to remember also. At the time you went through all of this you saw such a different world then us.

And forgive me for saying this, No disrespect but you had it alot harder then us. Hard is not something our kids really know or understand. Everything was given to them, even their faith. They never had to defend it, What I am saying is it may come to that. I mean really come to that in our own country.

And I do not mean with guns, bombs, and violence. I am talking Education.

Those of us who grew up in the 70’s were growing up in consumerism as well - with people who grew up in the 50’s busy telling us that we didn’t know or understand just how hard life could be - just as we’ve told our kids and they will tell their kids . . . . .

There never was a ‘Golden Age’.

 

[rinnie]

Those of us who grew up in the 70’s were growing up in consumerism as well - with people who grew up in the 50’s busy telling us that we didn’t know or understand just how hard life could be - just as we’ve told our kids and they will tell their kids . . . . .

There never was a ‘Golden Age’.

I understand what you are saying, but actually I am saying the opposite. My kids are never going to have the life I had. My kids are going to have more of the life my parents had then.

Like my older brother is ten years older then I. But there is a world of difference between us. And my kids and his. My Dad had nothing and made real good money. So as a child I had a great life. Material and spriitual. Then ONLY because I got married so young at 19 and did not want to continue my Education it was harder on me.

But my Sister who is 5 years younger makes more then My husband and I together. Because she choose the Education way. Now my brother did not choose the education but got in the right place at the right time. But we were stuck somewhere in between. But we knew what it was to really struggle but we had our parents to fall back on.

But unless things really change back I will never be able to give to mine what I had. Do not get me wrong, we are doing fine, we are making it. But there was never alot left. But always plenty. That is why we were always faithfull. We lived on prayer and God. But back to my point we knew how to use God for hope, and he took us through. BUt it is now I am trying to get my kids to WANT to know. But its hard. They think they know enough. Try getting 24 and 28 year olds into understanding the faith. Really understanding it and studying it is hard, impossible at times. CHurch on Sunday is as good as it gets.

And my Brother, Maybe once or twice a year? His kids? Its who died or who got married.

But what I am saying is it always seemed like you did better than your parents. I don’t know if thats going to be the way anymore. So just in case they better have faith. They are really going to need it.

Maybe I am wrong, and maybe this country is on the road to recovery. Maybe its just me, but I am sure not seeing it. I think its going to get worse, alot worse. And I do not see my husband and I living the life in ten years my parents had. They really had some golden years. I don’t think we will. But it is our faith that makes it okay. Our kids are going to need that faith alot more then they think.

Sorry for the rant, but when I see that they are comming in record numbers how can we be sure they do not try to live here, the way they lived there. And if we do not educate our Children on Their faith where will they be.

 

[Kaninchen]

I understand what you are saying, but actually I am saying the opposite. My kids are never going to have the life I had. My kids are going to have more of the life my parents had then.

Like my older brother is ten years older then I. But there is a world of difference between us. And my kids and his. My Dad had nothing and made real good money. So as a child I had a great life. Material and spriitual. Then ONLY because I got married so young at 19 and did not want to continue my Education it was harder on me.

But my Sister who is 5 years younger makes more then My husband and I together. Because she choose the Education way. Now my brother did not choose the education but got in the right place at the right time. But we were stuck somewhere in between. But we knew what it was to really struggle but we had our parents to fall back on.

But unless things really change back I will never be able to give to mine what I had. Do not get me wrong, we are doing fine, we are making it. But there was never alot left. But always plenty. That is why we were always faithfull. We lived on prayer and God. But back to my point we knew how to use God for hope, and he took us through. BUt it is now I am trying to get my kids to WANT to know. But its hard. They think they know enough. Try getting 24 and 28 year olds into understanding the faith. Really understanding it and studying it is hard, impossible at times. CHurch on Sunday is as good as it gets.

And my Brother, Maybe once or twice a year? His kids? Its who died or who got married.

But what I am saying is it always seemed like you did better than your parents. I don’t know if thats going to be the way anymore. So just in case they better have faith. They are really going to need it.

Maybe I am wrong, and maybe this country is on the road to recovery. Maybe its just me, but I am sure not seeing it. I think its going to get worse, alot worse. And I do not see my husband and I living the life in ten years my parents had. They really had some golden years. I don’t think we will. But it is our faith that makes it okay. Our kids are going to need that faith alot more then they think.

Sorry for the rant, but when I see that they are comming in record numbers how can we be sure they do not try to live here, the way they lived there. And if we do not educate our Children on Their faith where will they be.

The point I’ve been making is that it’s a mistake to direct all one’s insecurities onto one group of people - one thing where we Europeans can certainly say: “been there, done that, it not only didn’t work but ended up in mayhem and general disaster on scale beyond previous imagination.”

 

[manualman]

Excellent point Kaninchen, and part of a point I’ve been trying to make.

It’s an awfully small step between pointing out “problem people” and a “solution” to said problem. Much safer to point out problem IDEAS - they’re much harder to send a lynch mob after! Requires more thought and pondering and cannot be nature be solved with torches and pitchforks.

 

[rev_kevin]

Christians including Roman Catholics, Independents, Protestants, Orthodox, and Anglicans.
2,199,817,400

Muslims
1,387,454,500

Difference between the two.
812,362,900

From the major religions of the world
mid 2007 numbers

Just thought I would share this.

 

[rinnie]

The point I’ve been making is that it’s a mistake to direct all one’s insecurities onto one group of people - one thing where we Europeans can certainly say: “been there, done that, it not only didn’t work but ended up in mayhem and general disaster on scale beyond previous imagination.”

Thank-you Kaminchen, And I understand what you are saying. And I apologize if it looked like I directed it all onto this group. Which I can see that it does indeed look that way.

I did not mean to do that. It is just that sometimes things open your eyes to things that you have never really seen before. And this is what did it for me.

But you also gave me something else to really thing about last night. Maybe this is what is needed. It could be the best thing that has ever happens to us also.

Sometimes you need to see others to be ashamed of yourself. And one thing they would bring back to this country is prayer. (I believe in the afternoon they still do pray) In this country they took it out of school.

My Dad always prayed every single morning for one hour before he started his day. Not many knew, he would get up early. But he did tell me when they took prayer out of school what did they think would happen, He said when you take God out the devil enters:blush

 

[rinnie]

Excellent point Kaninchen, and part of a point I’ve been trying to make.

It’s an awfully small step between pointing out “problem people” and a “solution” to said problem. Much safer to point out problem IDEAS - they’re much harder to send a lynch mob after! Requires more thought and pondering and cannot be nature be solved with torches and pitchforks.

Sorry if I made it look that way manualman, was not my intentions.

 

[rinnie]

Christians including Roman Catholics, Independents, Protestants, Orthodox, and Anglicans.
2,199,817,400

Muslims
1,387,454,500

Difference between the two.
812,362,900

From the major religions of the world
mid 2007 numbers

Just thought I would share this.

Thanks Rev Kev!

 

[Desires_Him]

I don’t like the nature of this thread but that aside may be there is another way the number of Catholics could be increased. Both Catholicism and Islam disagree with artificial contraception. It would appear that muslims observe their faith better than catholics.

I think you are on to something here. As a fairly new Catholic (7 years now) I have spent a lot of time learning about my faith. Many of the people that I find myself surrounded by (church, in-laws, etc…) are cradle Catholics and do not observe the rules of Catholicism (pre marital sex, birth control, etc…) I have a hard time not being judgemental, but at times find that I may be hanging around the wrong crowd. It’s hard to say that when I went from being without Christ for so many years and now find that I can’t even find truth in my peers at church. It’s just sad.

 

[rinnie]

I think you are on to something here. As a fairly new Catholic (7 years now) I have spent a lot of time learning about my faith. Many of the people that I find myself surrounded by (church, in-laws, etc…) are cradle Catholics and do not observe the rules of Catholicism (pre marital sex, birth control, etc…) I have a hard time not being judgemental, but at times find that I may be hanging around the wrong crowd. It’s hard to say that when I went from being without Christ for so many years and now find that I can’t even find truth in my peers at church. It’s just sad.

Well here is one thing to think about. This always helped me from being judgemental, and I believe it may help you.

What about you? What kind of Catholic are you? And if you do not want to be around sinners you are in the wrong crowd if you are in the RCC. We are all sinners. That is why we are there, because we KNOW we are sinners.

We are there repenting and begging God for forgiveness and repenting for failing to live up to our faith. We make no excuses. We know we are wrong. But we are trying to become Saints.

And what is a Saint, a sinner trying to become like Christ. But I do have some good news for you. There are many who in the struggle and end do make it.

But if you ever do find that right crowd let me know.

 

[Light1111]

Wow! If that is the only problem you have with the faith then I don’t know what else to say.

I unlike you have not studied it that extensive. But I do have a bigger problem then with the dogs.

My number one problem is the Qur’an rejects clearly the mystery of the Incarnation. That to me would be harder to accept then the dog not being allowed in the family home.

Yes, they do have divergent beliefs from those of Christianity–I accept that, I am not offended by it. I am aware that there are diverging beliefs the world over.

I question not whether those religions take Jesus as their Savior or not–certainly none of those will, other than Christianity. What I look at in considering a religion and its people is what they ultimately teach. And their message is one of loving God and respecting and obeying Him. The details will of course differ from those of our own faith. That I take for granted.

By the way, as far as the similarities to Christianity go, you may be surprised.

For a multi-cultural course, in my Masters of Social Work program, we visited churches, synagogues, Hindu temples, Buddhist temples, Muslem mosques, etc. – to give us a basis for understanding the various sorts of clients who might wind up in our offices. The purpose was educative, as the vast majority of those in the program were born and raised Christian. Social Workers are ethically compelled to support clients were they are, and not to judge them for differing belief systems. So the purpose of these visits was to assist us in understand how our clients believe, and where those beliefs derive, when we worked with those of varying traditions.

When we visited the mosque, a gentleman member met us there, to speak with us about his faith, and to answer any questions we might have.

At one point during the meeting, he stated that the Muslem people do indeed follow the direction of Jesus, as they do with other important prophets, and that their Koran details His life. He stated that the NT speaks of Jesus’ early childhood, and then a few episodes that occurred in His adult life, and then the crucifixion. Meanwhile, according to Him, the Koran details Jesus’ adult life far more thoroughly, in greater detail. He concluded this portion of the lesson by stating that Muslems also view Mohammed as a prophet, but not as an immortal. He stated that a major difference between Muslems and Christians is that Christians do not follow Mohammed as a prophet. But the Muslem faith does not uphold Mohammed as Christians do Jesus; Mohammed died and was buried; he did not rise again. He was a mortal man. However, according to Muslem faith, Jesus died and returned to heaven – and Muslems, like Christians, await His return.

This is not mentioned overmuch in the media. But here was this devout Muslem expressing these beliefs.

As for the points elucidated by the poster regarding Muslem taking more than one wife, etc., I do not think I am in a position to judge how they came to hold those beliefs and practices. I suppose they came to them in much the same way the Catholic Church came to its many practices. I don’t think I’m in a position to judge the merit of their beliefs. We all believe so many different things, here on God’s earth.

In the end, it is their behavior I look at, and I believe the religion is one that upholds God and who worships and respects Him, and also that directs humans to be kind to one another, and I take no issue with religions that do so. As far as the details, those go up to God; it is not my right to disparage those details. They are private and they are between Muslems and God. I have entertained the notion throughout my life that any other faith, other than ours, might be the one that is “right” instead of us. That is something I can fathom. More often, however, I find myself believing that we are all right, and we are all saying the same thing. And most importantly: we are all God’s children.

 

[manualman]

Light,

I might have been unclear. Muslims do not believe the Muhammed was immortal, divine or resurrected. But they DO believe that he lived a life of perfect submission to the will of Allah. His life is to be considered one to be emulated in all ways rather than one to be evaluated as an imperfect human being struggling with fallen human nature as we are used to in the christian tradition.

I know it is nice and PC to “not judge” other belief systems, but this crucial difference cannot be ignored. It is the Achilles heel of Islam and the reason they are morally stuck in the 7th century. Muhammed may indeed have been impressively enlightened for a 7th century middler eastern man (as Abraham was for his age). But he’s a comparative cave man evaluated by the moral standards of today. That’s an inherent flaw in Islam not easily overcome by the God-given goodness (even though fallen) that resides in the soul of every muslim (and other human) today.

 

[marci]

From Robert Spencer’s book The Truth about Muhammad

The Qur’an and Islamic tradition are clear that the Prophet is the supreme example of behavior for Muslims to follow. His importance to hundreds of millions of Muslims worldwide is rooted in the Qu’ran, the Muslim holy book. In brief, he is “an excellent model of conduct” (Qu’ran33:21). He demonstrates “an exalted standard of character” (68:4), and indeed, “he who obeys the Messenger, obeys Allah” (4:80). The Qur’an frequently tells Muslims to obey Allah and Muhammad: while the Muslim holy book takes for granted that Muhammad is fallible (cf. 48:2; 80:1-12), it also instructs Muslims repeatedly to obey Muhammad (3:32; 3:132; 4:13; 4:59; 4:69; 5:92; 8:1; 8:20; 8:46; 9:71; 24:47; 24:51; 24:52; 24:54; 24:56; 33:33; 47:33; 49:14; 58:13; 64:12).

An example of problems which arises from this command to immitate the life of Muhammad is that of child brides.

**Problems arise when an action like this is forcibly removed from its historical contest and proposed as a paradigm for human beings of all times and places. Yet this is exactly what has happened in the Umma. Imitating the Prophet of Islam, many Muslims even in modern times have taken child brides. In some places this even has the blessing of the law: article 1041 of the Civil Code of the Islamic Repbulic of Iran states that girls can be engaged before the age of nine, and married at nine.

UNICEF reports that… in early 2002, researchers in refugee camps in Afghanistan and Pakistan found half the girls married by age thirteen. In an Afghan refugee cam, more than two out of three second-grade girls were either married or engaged, and virtually all the girls who were beyond second grade were already married. **

 

[Light1111]

Light,

I might have been unclear. Muslims do not believe the Muhammed was immortal, divine or resurrected. But they DO believe that he lived a life of perfect submission to the will of Allah. His life is to be considered one to be emulated in all ways rather than one to be evaluated as an imperfect human being struggling with fallen human nature as we are used to in the christian tradition.

I know it is nice and PC to “not judge” other belief systems, but this crucial difference cannot be ignored. It is the Achilles heel of Islam and the reason they are morally stuck in the 7th century. Muhammed may indeed have been impressively enlightened for a 7th century middler eastern man (as Abraham was for his age). But he’s a comparative cave man evaluated by the moral standards of today. That’s an inherent flaw in Islam not easily overcome by the God-given goodness (even though fallen) that resides in the soul of every muslim (and other human) today.

Thank you for sharing that. I assure you I am not interested in being PC – this is how I truly believe. I look at the abundance of faiths and paths as representative that all or almost all humans who have been born on this Earth have found ways to worship God. We of course differ in the details, but we show Him the utmost respect by displaying the many paths we created here on this earth, in our attempt to come to know Him. That is what most moves me–not a motive towards political correctness.

Peace to each one of you.

 

[rinnie]

Yes, they do have divergent beliefs from those of Christianity–I accept that, I am not offended by it. I am aware that there are diverging beliefs the world over.

I question not whether those religions take Jesus as their Savior or not–certainly none of those will, other than Christianity. What I look at in considering a religion and its people is what they ultimately teach. And their message is one of loving God and respecting and obeying Him. The details will of course differ from those of our own faith. That I take for granted.

By the way, as far as the similarities to Christianity go, you may be surprised.

For a multi-cultural course, in my Masters of Social Work program, we visited churches, synagogues, Hindu temples, Buddhist temples, Muslem mosques, etc. – to give us a basis for understanding the various sorts of clients who might wind up in our offices. The purpose was educative, as the vast majority of those in the program were born and raised Christian. Social Workers are ethically compelled to support clients were they are, and not to judge them for differing belief systems. So the purpose of these visits was to assist us in understand how our clients believe, and where those beliefs derive, when we worked with those of varying traditions.

When we visited the mosque, a gentleman member met us there, to speak with us about his faith, and to answer any questions we might have.

At one point during the meeting, he stated that the Muslem people do indeed follow the direction of Jesus, as they do with other important prophets, and that their Koran details His life. He stated that the NT speaks of Jesus’ early childhood, and then a few episodes that occurred in His adult life, and then the crucifixion. Meanwhile, according to Him, the Koran details Jesus’ adult life far more thoroughly, in greater detail. He concluded this portion of the lesson by stating that Muslems also view Mohammed as a prophet, but not as an immortal. He stated that a major difference between Muslems and Christians is that Christians do not follow Mohammed as a prophet. But the Muslem faith does not uphold Mohammed as Christians do Jesus; Mohammed died and was buried; he did not rise again. He was a mortal man. However, according to Muslem faith, Jesus died and returned to heaven – and Muslems, like Christians, await His return.

This is not mentioned overmuch in the media. But here was this devout Muslem expressing these beliefs.

As for the points elucidated by the poster regarding Muslem taking more than one wife, etc., I do not think I am in a position to judge how they came to hold those beliefs and practices. I suppose they came to them in much the same way the Catholic Church came to its many practices. I don’t think I’m in a position to judge the merit of their beliefs. We all believe so many different things, here on God’s earth.

In the end, it is their behavior I look at, and I believe the religion is one that upholds God and who worships and respects Him, and also that directs humans to be kind to one another, and I take no issue with religions that do so. As far as the details, those go up to God; it is not my right to disparage those details. They are private and they are between Muslems and God. I have entertained the notion throughout my life that any other faith, other than ours, might be the one that is “right” instead of us. That is something I can fathom. More often, however, I find myself believing that we are all right, and we are all saying the same thing. And most importantly: we are all God’s children.

I am sorry but I disagree with alot of what you are saying. And alot of what you are saying is what I see in the future. That is why as I stated I feel that we should understand our faith and be able to uphold it.

I am not saying that we should judge others by their faith, I never said that. I said that we must know our own faith and could we hold up our end in defending our faith.

And how can we be right and they be right???

John 8:13 So the Pharisees said to him, You testify on your own behalf, so your testimony cannot be verified. Jesus answered and said to them, even if I do testify on m own behalf my testimony CAN BE VERIFIED, because I KNOW where I CAME FROM and WHERE I AM GOING. You judge by appearances but I do not judge anyone. And even if I should judge, my judgment is valid, BECAUSE I AM NOT ALONE, but it is I AND THE FATHER who sent me. …

John 8:19 So who is your Father, Jesus answered You know nether me nor my Father. If you knew me you would know my Father also.

As I stated you are who I am talking about and others like you. Who claim to know the truth, but then can make a statement that you made. That theirs can be right

You claim that they came into their practices the same as the CC? Do you have any idea how the CC came into their Practices. It happened by the Power of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost.

How can we go a proclaim the good news and not disparage those details. They deny Jesus died on the cross and rose again. They deny him as the Son of God.

It is those notions that you entertain that bother me yes, Especially when you claimed you did study their faith. What did you learn in your faith???

This is exactly what I am talking about.