Catholics and Sin, Why so Guilty?

[MorningSong51]

Well, the Pope receives the Sacrament of Reconciliation (confession) probably weekly. John Paul II used to confess sin to a Priest twice per week. The Church has an examination of conscience. Read it and you will know that you sin. And, as mentioned, sin is the only thing - the only thing - that can separate us from God. It’s a much bigger deal that most of us think nowadays.

One last point on this. Po18guy, Father told this story at mass. Short version: There was this elderly woman who confessed everyday the same sin and finally Father asked the woman “why”. The woman was so grieve stricken about what she did during the time when her country was at war because she stole food - to feed her family. Everyday she would come to the confessional to tell the priest - and he’d listen. There’s a point when one has been already forgiven - it’s when we have to start to forgive ourselves.

There many sins that can’t be avoid - and we are faced with choices of the lesser of two evils. During this time of financial crisis, some have to make hard core decision about faith and conscience. I listened to another priest talked about this on EWTN about the church and the decisions that we have to make about certain issues that are being addressed in the political arena, even with lawmakers, doctors, nurses, and charity institutions - (Catholic verses Christian that can’t financially support themselves but have to rely on government assistance for aid) Catholics are facing many issues that really coming down to the dogma’s of the church - faith and ethics or faith and conscience. How can one not see that these issues are affecting us as well as other denominations?

Even in war time - people have to make choices that border on sin, or living in a third world country where many people have to choose between, we pray that the sin be small but many are not, that’s why members are reaching out more and more to the priest and layman for answers…we really are facing some ruff issues today. Look at what’s around - our children sometimes go to school facilities that don’t teach religion or children outside of the Catholic school face more issues than the one’s who do attend classes in a Catholic setting, so I think they need our prayers to strengthen them. Everyday is a temptation, due to peer pressure or group pressure on our young kids and even adults to follow against the teachings of the church. Look at our universities - many are shutting down. The priest who had discussed these issues says that the Church and members many turn out to be smaller…so, we may seeing some changes occurring in our faith.

 

[MorningSong51]

How am I creating a false dilemma - I’m not the one who has it listed under the type of Religion that I practice. I asked because I saw it on someone’s profile and looked it up and yes, their on this thread. That’s why I asked - I’ve never heard of the word before.

 

[MartyrForJesus]

How am I creating a false dilemma - I’m not the one who has it listed under the type of Religion that I practice. I asked because I saw it on someone’s profile and looked it up and yes, their on this thread. That’s why I asked - I’ve never heard of the word before.

It’s pretty much a derogatory term referring to a Catholic, which originated in Protestant England. It was used to insist that Catholics are traitors because they are not loyal to the crown/country, but loyal to a foreign ruler (Pope).

The Ku Klux Klan later copied the same concept - hating Catholics because they ‘bowed down’ to a ‘Roman Dictator’.

 

[JustaServant]

I apologize for making a blanket statement, but it’s impossible not to in order to ask my question.

Reading the Apologetics section and Ask an Apologist on this forum it seems that Catholics are obsessed with sin. Is X a sin? Is Y a sin? I did X by accident, am I going to hell? It’s so prevalent that there are other threads devoted to scrupulosity.

One often hears about “Catholic guilt,” but I always dismissed it. Now, I’m starting to take it a bit more seriously.

The questions run the gamut from accidental nocturnal emissions to missing Mass due to a headache to smoking a cigarette before communion. These are things I never worry about, yet you go to confession for discretely spitting piece of chicken in your napkin at a dinner party.

What gives? Why so guilty?

Speaking as a man who spent many years in Baptist churches I can tell you “Baptist guilt” is far worse. Fundamentalist Baptist guilt is downright neurotic.
The difference? There is no Sacrament of Penance in Baptist churches.

 

[JustaServant]

I love British TV, most of my DVD collection are Britcoms (gave up on American comedy a long time ago). But its a shame how shows in the UK portray not just the Catholic Church, but thier own Anglican church as well. I stopped watching Midsomer Murders because of the constant anti-Christian storylines. The incredible hostility toward the Christianity in general and the Church in particular is alarming.

 

[CompSciGuy]

In the Lutheran Church, we hear in every service that we all are poor miserable sinners and are all beggars at the table.

I’m kind of confused as to in what way this post is a response to what I said.

 

[guanophore]

I apologize for making a blanket statement, but it’s impossible not to in order to ask my question.

Reading the Apologetics section and Ask an Apologist on this forum it seems that Catholics are obsessed with sin. Is X a sin? Is Y a sin? I did X by accident, am I going to hell? It’s so prevalent that there are other threads devoted to scrupulosity.

One often hears about “Catholic guilt,” but I always dismissed it. Now, I’m starting to take it a bit more seriously.

The questions run the gamut from accidental nocturnal emissions to missing Mass due to a headache to smoking a cigarette before communion. These are things I never worry about, yet you go to confession for discretely spitting piece of chicken in your napkin at a dinner party.

What gives? Why so guilty?

This is really not a problem of guilt, but a problem of poor catechesis. Most of these questions would not be necessary if the persons asking them have a better basic understanding of their faith. Most of them have not even read the catechism, and have no more than a child’s education in the faith.

Guilt is intended to keep us on the right path in life, but when a person is not properly spiritually informed, they are prone to misunderstanding, superstition, and these kinds of scrupulosity. It is appalling,and regrettable.

 

[guanophore]

In the Lutheran Church, we hear in every service that we all are poor miserable sinners and are all beggars at the table.

The difference I see, though, among our Lutheran brethren, is the emphasis on grace. The sinners around the table feast upon the superabundant grace of God, so that one walks in who He has made us to be, rather than according to the flesh. It is this message of grace, and walking in the freedom from sin that seems to be poorly taught to Catholics.

 

[guanophore]

Yes, I did and I’m glad you gave it because that isn’t the definition that was given when I looked it up - are some members Catholic? It will make a difference on how some view sin and why Catholics put so much emphasis on it. (corrective statement)

It should not affect how Catholics view sin. Sin is the same, whether we have a Pope, or not. Sin still separates people from God, even if they do not acknowledge the successor of Peter.

What has been given to our Reformed brethren to believe (a falsehood) is that somehow the nature of sin has changed “this side of the cross”. It is given to believe that sin can no longer separate us from God, but this is not true. Sin has not changed. The wages of sin are still death.

 

[guanophore]

The miracle is about how God forgives, opens our heart and mind to see the sin and still continues to love us. I think of all the times that God has forgiven man for terrible offensive but He sent us His son to return us back to Him - what greater love is there than this?

John 15:13

13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.

Indeed, a great miracle. However, the misunderstanding of it is that God’s love is equated with God’s salvation. Nothing can separate us from his love, but our sins can separate us from Him. He will love us perfectly, even as we choose to walk through the gates of Hell.

 

[Conor7]

I’m not sure anyone could fully explain this to one who does not fully understand and accept the Holy Eucharist as a Catholic or maybe a Lutheran.

I’m a little stunned by this statement. Why would you assume that I am “one who does not fully understand and accept the Holy Eucharist as a Catholic or maybe a Lutheran”?

 

[Telstar]

How am I creating a false dilemma - I’m not the one who has it listed under the type of Religion that I practice. I asked because I saw it on someone’s profile and looked it up and yes, their on this thread. That’s why I asked - I’ve never heard of the word before.

The term “Popery” is certainly meant to be derogatory toward Catholics. But, I think yours and others reaction to it being listed as someone’s religion, is due to your belief that they are somehow mocking Catholicism. I don’t think that’s the case at all. I think it’s meant more as a tongue in cheek reference to them being Catholic, which some people would refer to as practicing “Popery”. I thought it was pretty funny that they used it that way, almost like thumbing their nose at those uncharitable types that like to put derogatory labels on other people because of their misconceptions of what others really believe. It’s like another derogatory term that many non-Catholics call us, “Catlicks”.

 

[Cryptic1]

If you were to look at the way the Catholic church teaches on sin, you would begin to understand why many of its’ members are consumed with the issue of sin.

At a very young age, Catholics are taught about the two types of sins–venial and mortal. Venial sins are lesser acts against God, like telling a white lie or cheating on a test while mortal sins, committing adultery or intentionally missing Mass on Sunday, for eg. are of a more serious or “deadly” nature. Going to confession before a priest will absolve you from your confessed sins, but if you die with venial sins on your soul, you go to purgatory for a time. If you die with mortal sins on your soul, you go to hell for eternity. If you believe this to be true as most Catholics do, you will become quite scrupulous regarding sin and the state of your soul.

For every sin committed, the sinner agonizes over the seriousness of the sin (venial or mortal), and how many times the sin was committed (in order to confess the number of occassions of sin to the priest). There is such an emphasis on the minutiae of sin that it is no wonder Catholics are obssessed over it. It is what you pay attention to that gets your attention.

It is no surprise then that many Catholics are overcome with guilt, sad to say. The focus on sin creates an inner turmoil and angst which manifests itself in Catholic guilt. It is the church’s teaching on sin that binds many Catholics though, not the laws which the creator has set forth to guide us.

Jesus died on the cross for all our sins more than two thousand years ago. All we have to do is accept the fact that he paid the price for our sins, for our sicknesses (infirmities), and yes, even for our Catholic guilt. Jesus said that the truth would set us free and it is this truth that many Catholics need to embrace in order to be set free from their chains of bondage.

God Rocks

 

[Telstar]

This is really not a problem of guilt, but a problem of poor catechesis. Most of these questions would not be necessary if the persons asking them have a better basic understanding of their faith. Most of them have not even read the catechism, and have no more than a child’s education in the faith.

Guilt is intended to keep us on the right path in life, but when a person is not properly spiritually informed, they are prone to misunderstanding, superstition, and these kinds of scrupulosity. It is appalling,and regrettable.

I totally agree. I don’t think religious education classes teach enough about the nature of sin and what we need to be concerned about being sinful. Too many people seem to think we need to move away from feeling any guilt at all, because Jesus already paid for all of our sins. As a result of that belief, much less emphasis is placed on teaching more about it. There is also a lot of confusion between mortal and venial sins, and what we really need to confess. Poor catechesis is certainly what leads to all of this confusion.

I find it interesting that other Christians think that Catholics have too great of a problem with guilt, considering the fact that Martin Luther suffered from severe scrupulosity over the same kinds of issues that we all struggle with today, due to our own poor religious education. Perhaps that’s a reflection of what lead him to leave the Church. Could it have been because of his own poor catechesis, or at least, his poor understanding of what the Church actually teaches?

 

[adf417]

I’m a little stunned by this statement. Why would you assume that I am “one who does not fully understand and accept the Holy Eucharist as a Catholic or maybe a Lutheran”?

I’m sorry but I did not mean to imply anything. I was simply stating in general how EVERYTHING for Catholics, including sin, revolve around the Holy Eucharist. If you understand and accept the Eucharist as Catholics do you will understand this.

Again, sorry for the implication and God Bless…

 

[Telstar]

I was simply stating in general how EVERYTHING for Catholics, including sin, revolve around the Holy Eucharist. If you understand and accept the Eucharist as Catholics do you will understand this.

I also agree with that. The whole purpose for Catholics to confess all of their sins, as well as possible, and to receive Absolution from the Priest, is to prepare themselves to receive Communion, worthily.
1 Corinthians 11:[26] For as often as you shall eat this bread, and drink the chalice, you shall shew the death of the Lord, until he come. [27] Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord. [28] But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of the chalice. [29] For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord.
If we are not properly prepared to receive the real Body & Blood, Soul & Divinity that is truly present in the Holy Eucharist, then we are committing an even more grave sin, by partaking in that Communion. That’s why it causes Catholics a great deal of angst, because it is such a serious issue to us. We ‘prove’ ourselves ‘worthy’ by making a good confession of our sins and being absolved of them.

 

[MorningSong51]

Indeed, a great miracle. However, the misunderstanding of it is that God’s love is equated with God’s salvation. Nothing can separate us from his love, but our sins can separate us from Him. He will love us perfectly, even as we choose to walk through the gates of Hell.

True - “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” So yes, I agree that the misunderstanding is that God’s love is equated with God’s salvation - but His love will lead one to His salvation, always. John 6 and John 10. What comes across is a beautiful verse out of John 10:

1“I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. 2 The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep. 3 The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. **5 But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger’s voice.” 6 Jesus used this figure of speech, but they did not understand what he was telling them.
**
7 Therefore Jesus said again, “I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep. 8 All who ever came before me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. 9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

 

[MorningSong51]

I’m going to enter this article into the thread and if its understandable about what’s out into our world today and it applies to the topic, than good:

We are too quick to express complete disapproval toward the sinner, and I’m guilty of this as well as anyone and I have to change my attitude. Jesus said to them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

Why Hating Is Too Easy and Forgiving Is Too Hard

To quote: “Unfortunately, there are also many long-term consequences, and unending cycles of revenge are one of them. And for individuals, hatred sort of “pickles” a person, filling them with resentment, bitterness, and even depression. And of course it keeps people from doing anything positive with their life.”

 

[MorningSong51]

It’s pretty much a derogatory term referring to a Catholic, which originated in Protestant England. It was used to insist that Catholics are traitors because they are not loyal to the crown/country, but loyal to a foreign ruler (Pope).

The Ku Klux Klan later copied the same concept - hating Catholics because they ‘bowed down’ to a ‘Roman Dictator’.

Thank you for the information, I really appreciate the reply back.

 

[MorningSong51]

Yes, I agree and thanks for the reply back. The term maybe harmlessly used but it may not be an acceptable to everyone on the board, at least in that way and after reading MartyrForJesus post - I still wouldn’t like it.