Catholics and Sin, Why so Guilty?

[Conor7]

A small tangent: I love that in the Episcopal prayer of confession, we ask for forgiveness for things done, and for things left undone.

I would say that 99% of my sins are of the “undone” variety- opportunities I’ve had to stop pain, cruelty, and suffering in the world and I instead to chose to turn a blind eye.

How’s that for accountability?

 

[MartinJordan]

A small tangent: I love that in the Episcopal prayer of confession, we ask for forgiveness for things done, and for things left undone.

I would say that 99% of my sins are of the “undone” variety- opportunities I’ve had to stop pain, cruelty, and suffering in the world and I instead to chose to turn a blind eye.

How’s that for accountability?

Sunday Mass we say the confiteor:

I confess to almighty God
and to you, my brothers and sisters,
that I have greatly sinned,
in my thoughts and in my words,

** in what I have done and in what I have failed to do**,
through my fault, through my fault,
through my most grievous fault;
therefore I ask blessed Mary ever-Virgin,
all the Angels and Saints,
and you, my brothers and sisters,
to pray for me to the Lord our God.

Before Confession we are supposed to reflect on what sins we’ve committed and those of also of the sin of ommission.

This has been practiced already since around 1100 A.D. i believe.

MJ

 

[15thClub]

I don’t feel “guilty” and I don’t know what emotional feelings you have. I know that everyday is a blessing and for the most part of each day, I’d like to think I get it right or do the right thing and think the right thoughts. But that it is most part of the day. God demands we get it right all the time and all through the day. Then of course, there are days I don’t get it right at all. I don’t remember the actual word from the Greek or Latin but when translated to English, the best translation is “miss the mark.” I feel bad but I don’t feel guilty. Prayer, penance and confession. God forgives, let Him!

 

[Cryptic1]

It’s interesting that on this forum, when posters refer to tradition or Catholic teaching to “enlighten” others, they end up either shutting these curious onlookers down or shutting them out of a true relationship with God. Although they have the right to point out the “erroneous” religious views of non Catholics elsewhere, (this being a Catholic forum), they do it in a swift and sometimes heartless manner. You are correct. I won’t need to proselytze in order to send other interested posters away-- the Catholic posters on this forum do a good job of that all by themselves.

Jesus Rocks

 

[catharina]

Jesus Rocks

One more time:
what do you mean by “Jesus Rocks?”
Thanks.

 

[Conor7]

It’s interesting that on this forum, when posters refer to tradition or Catholic teaching to “enlighten” others, they end up either shutting these curious onlookers down or shutting them out of a true relationship with God. Although they have the right to point out the “erroneous” religious views of non Catholics elsewhere, (this being a Catholic forum), they do it in a swift and sometimes heartless manner. You are correct. I won’t need to proselytze in order to send other interested posters away-- the Catholic posters on this forum do a good job of that all by themselves.

Jesus Rocks

My tendency is to agree with you. I perhaps wouldn’t have put it so bluntly, but yes, what you say is true. I think it’s important to remember that there are about 100 Catholics to every 1 non-Catholic on here (made up figures to make a point), so it’s easy to feel ganged-up on.

Admittedly, and I say this to hurt nobody’s feeling, my opinion of Catholics has changed drastically since joining this forum. I came looking for answers, but instead felt ostracized. However, I enjoy the debate and discussion enough to stick around, not to mention I have learned so much.

 

[Loboto-Me]

I was reading and about halfway through, I remembered today’s homily where our priest told us to get ourselves to confession! Great homily!!! I’m really enjoying our new priest!

Anyway, he was so very happy that he actually had 20 repentant sinners on Saturday night! but I’m imagining that he felt that that was still not enough, enough so that he felt a need to tell his congregation to use the special sacrament of penance.

What does this tell me? Do Catholics REALLY feel as guilty as they should? If they did, I’m assuming that confession would last most of Saturday afternoon rather than an hour before Saturday night Mass.

I think this guilt thing was something started by non-catholics a long time ago due to our beautiful Sacrament of confession. Maybe they were jealous? LOL!

I don’t worry about it… I even laugh about the Catholic and Jewish Guilt thing.

It’s also been mentioned in this thread that the forums are a great place just to ask questions out of curiosity, as well, some need clarifications, others need reassurance and use these forums as a teaching and encouragement tool. Not all questions are because of scrupulosity.

Now back to reading this thread… I feel so guilty for not completing it before replying!! Was that a sin?

 

[CompSciGuy]

To the Original Poster

I am not only Catholic, I Irish Catholic. I often joke that I could only marry another Catholic or a Jew because who understands guilt.

However, I think why Catholics are aware of guilt goes back to the Cross. While we know that Christ died for us, we do not believe we really earned it. Yes, no one deserved or earned what Jesus did for us. However, many feel that since Jesus made the ultimate sacrifice, they are absolved. Catholics do believe in absolution. However, we always remember that we did not earn or deserve it.

Plus we had moms who were always there to remind us of our failings:yyeess:

I think we can agree on this view of sin, because yes, none of us deserves eternal salvation, but I don’t really think this is the mindset that the OP had in mind. I think he was addressing the “Oh my goodness, I sucked on a cough drop 20 minutes before mass, have I committed mortal sin” types.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

I think we can agree on this view of sin, because yes, none of us deserves eternal salvation, but I don’t really think this is the mindset that the OP had in mind. I think he was addressing the “Oh my goodness, I sucked on a cough drop 20 minutes before mass, have I committed mortal sin” types.

Worse. When your mother, after you confessed 10 minutes ago, said for some child’s fault: " It is a moratl sin! You cannot go to communion!"

Very useful! You had to obey to your mother because otherwise you’ld go to hell!

Not my mother, whom I did not know for she died in an airplane accident when I was small but I know from friends’ stories.

 

[donship]

On the side, you are correct - the one thing that separates us from God is when we offend him and when we don’t listen and don’t do. However, the importance of reconciliation is that, and not out of guilt but out of wanting to return back because we left out of being anger, bitterness or feeling disconnected to the community as a whole, is that we were lost but now found. (But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”) Remembering that sin causes death and when we are absolved from our sins, we are once again reconciled back to God (we are made alive in Christ, by his grace and mercy!)- remember that verse that Jesus said to the woman who sinned, Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you? She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more.”

I sin everyday - Po18guy, I must admire those who are well trained and hold onto the faith during the times of trial and suffering, but there is (also) joy… As God has produced the seasons - so he creates emotions inside of us, as there are many aspects to us. Remember said to Cain, when he sinned against his own brother, "“Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.”

Morningsong51: I am so happy I read this thread, especially ALL that you have posted. (I loved your first post in this thread!)

I AM a Roman Catholic, with much guilt. In some ways it is because I sin, and have not gone to confession in 10 years, which I also am guilty about,
and other ways because it is how I have been my whole life… I am a serious, sensitive person., although not an introvert.

I just wanted to say how much you reached me in the posts that you have written. It has not only taught me better ways to think about my sin, but has made me realize what I must do… go to confession. It is easy to see how you walk with Christ… you are an example of love, thoughtfulness, knowledge and understanding, and I thank you.

God Bless you and yours,

Don

 

[MorningSong51]

Morningsong51: I am so happy I read this thread, especially ALL that you have posted. (I loved your first post in this thread!)

I AM a Roman Catholic, with much guilt. In some ways it is because I sin, and have not gone to confession in 10 years, which I also am guilty about,
and other ways because it is how I have been my whole life… I am a serious, sensitive person., although not an introvert.

I just wanted to say how much you reached me in the posts that you have written. It has not only taught me better ways to think about my sin, but has made me realize what I must do… go to confession. It is easy to see how you walk with Christ… you are an example of love, thoughtfulness, knowledge and understanding, and I thank you.

God Bless you and yours,

Don

Thank you for this post, you’ve truly given me a blessing and I’m glad it reached you. I’m on my way to mass, a real recommendation and I read this out loud to my family when we need to feel close to our Lord is Luke 1 & 2. When you have the time, and especially for this season - you might read this, it has given me a lot of strength. Benedictus (Song of Zechariah)

…excerpt:

And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways:
To give knowledge of salvation to his people, unto the remission of their sins:
Through the bowels of the mercy of our God, in which the Orient from on high hath visited us:
To enlighten them that sit in darkness, and in the shadow of death: to direct our feet into the way of peace.

Blessing for a Wonder High Holy Season - God bless
Mary

 

[JustaServant]

Why do people think guilt is a bad thing? When I was a Baptist we called it ‘being under conviction’, which amounts to the same thing.
Is our aversion to guilt directly related to our denial of sin?

 

[Telstar]

Why do people think guilt is a bad thing? When I was a Baptist we called it ‘being under conviction’, which amounts to the same thing.
Is our aversion to guilt directly related to our denial of sin?

I think that’s probably the crux of the problem. Catholics might have a greater awareness of guilt because of Confession, but I think the fact that we are certain that our sins are forgiven when we receive absolution. gives us much more inner peace in the long run, than those that don’t have that outlet. Protestants and other Christians that believe in OSAS, either don’t have any guilt at all about committing sin, because they believe Jesus paid for all of it, so they don’t need to worry about it, or, they might still have a nagging feeling in the back of their mind that will never go away, because God tries to remind them that they have sinned and really do need to ask for His forgiveness, and do penance for it. Without the confessional, I can’t see how they can ever completely relieve themselves of their feelings of guilt. They certainly don’t ever want to be reminded of it, because they might begin to have doubts as to whether or not they’re ever truly forgiven.

 

[sallybutler]

I’d like to turn the question around to “Protestants, why not so guilty”

How can one, knowing Jesus died for your sins, not for any one elses, not feel awful everytime one added another sin to that reason He died?

I believe that Jesus would have gone to the cross if I were the only sinner in all of time. I am grateful that He did. But I feel bad that He had to do that for me.

If one accepts Jesus as their personal savior, they have to accept that Jesus would for done this if they were the only person that needed it. That means that each of us have to accept that we, and we alone, are guilty of sending Jesus to the cross.

Try saying this. Jesus, I am sorry for sending you to the cross. Say this every time you commit a new sin. I think this will make you realize that you are guilty. Hopefully it will also help you to sin less often

 

[JustaServant]

I think that’s probably the crux of the problem. Catholics might have a greater awareness of guilt because of Confession, but I think the fact that we are certain that our sins are forgiven when we receive absolution. gives us much more inner peace in the long run, than those that don’t have that outlet. Protestants and other Christians that believe in OSAS, either don’t have any guilt at all about committing sin, because they believe Jesus paid for all of it, so they don’t need to worry about it, or, they might still have a nagging feeling in the back of their mind that will never go away, because God tries to remind them that they have sinned and really do need to ask for His forgiveness, and do penance for it. Without the confessional, I can’t see how they can ever completely relieve themselves of their feelings of guilt. They certainly don’t ever want to be reminded of it, because they might begin to have doubts as to whether or not they’re ever truly forgiven.

This^^^^^
People become harded to sin and its effects without the remedy God has provided through the Sacrament of Confession. As a result they look at guilt as a bad thing, not the tugging of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Berachiah]

I think that’s probably the crux of the problem. Catholics might have a greater awareness of guilt because of Confession, but I think the fact that we are certain that our sins are forgiven when we receive absolution. gives us much more inner peace in the long run, than those that don’t have that outlet. Protestants and other Christians that believe in OSAS, either don’t have any guilt at all about committing sin, because they believe Jesus paid for all of it, so they don’t need to worry about it, or, they might still have a nagging feeling in the back of their mind that will never go away, because God tries to remind them that they have sinned and really do need to ask for His forgiveness, and do penance for it. Without the confessional, I can’t see how they can ever completely relieve themselves of their feelings of guilt. They certainly don’t ever want to be reminded of it, because they might begin to have doubts as to whether or not they’re ever truly forgiven.

I may not be an expert, but if they don’t have any guilt in or after committing sins, then they are unbelievers and unrepented sins will bring them to hell. I think it is that simple. The salvation of Jesus is not a carte blanche to commit sin.

 

[smp501]

I’d like to turn the question around to “Protestants, why not so guilty”

How can one, knowing Jesus died for your sins, not for any one elses, not feel awful everytime one added another sin to that reason He died?

I believe that Jesus would have gone to the cross if I were the only sinner in all of time. I am grateful that He did. But I feel bad that He had to do that for me.

If one accepts Jesus as their personal savior, they have to accept that Jesus would for done this if they were the only person that needed it. That means that each of us have to accept that we, and we alone, are guilty of sending Jesus to the cross.

Try saying this. Jesus, I am sorry for sending you to the cross. Say this every time you commit a new sin. I think this will make you realize that you are guilty. Hopefully it will also help you to sin less often

You see, it really depends on which part of Protestantism one is coming from. I come from a conservative branch of Presbyterianism, and was taught this regularly, along with how we are so sinful that we can’t do anything good no matter what. I went through my last two years of high school completely riddled with guilt and self-loathing over a few sins that I couldn’t kick. the catholic idea of absolution of all past sins at confession is the first thing that appealed to me about the Church.

 

[Izdaari]

My take on it in a nutshell:

“If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins”

So… if God forgives us, and we don’t forgive ourselves… isn’t that really presumptuous and arrogant of us? I mean, putting our opinion of ourselves above God’s opinion? Bad idea.

If God says we’re forgiven, we’re forgiven, our sins cast “as far as the East is from the West”, “as though we’d never sinned”, and we should forget about it and move on. No use at all for guilt at that point!

 

[Telstar]

I may not be an expert, but if they don’t have any guilt in or after committing sins, then they are unbelievers and unrepented sins will bring them to hell. I think it is that simple. The salvation of Jesus is not a carte blanche to commit sin.

Exactly my point. I’m not saying that all OSAS don’t feel any guilt at all, or that they feel free to do things that they know are sinful. But, if you believe that everything you do that is sinful is paid in full by Jesus, that can be a very slippery slope. You might tend to start out by committing very small sins, but after a while, you begin to purge your conscience of any guilt associated with those sins. That tends to lead you into committing even more serious sins, because you know that you can use the same process of talking yourself out of any nagging guilt. After a while, you can’t even recognize the fact that you’re living a seriously sinful life that could easily lead you to hell, because you justify it in your own mind by thinking that you’ll still be forgiven and covered by the Blood of Jesus, just by saying, “I’m sorry, Lord.”.

For those that firmly believe that once they “accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior”, that they’re forgiven for every sin, automatically, that can be a very precarious position to be in. Sometimes, saying “I’m sorry.” just doesn’t cut it with God. God’s Justice must always be satisfied. While Jesus did pay for everyone to have a chance at salvation, He never said that we didn’t have to worry about our salvation. As Paul says:"[Philippians 2:12] Wherefore, my dearly beloved, (as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but much more now in my absence,) with fear and trembling work out your salvation." When Jesus forgave anyone their sins in the Gospel, His final instruction to them was to “go and sin no more”. But, He knew that human nature was weak, and sometimes we fall into sin without thinking about the consequences. That’s why He gave us a means of attaining God’s forgiveness, through confession, when we had those moments of weakness.

Most people don’t realize that the act of Jesus washing the feet of the Apostles was symbolic of Him washing away their sins, as He spoke to each one, individually.
*[John 13:][6] He cometh therefore to Simon Peter. And Peter saith to him: Lord, dost thou wash my feet? [7] Jesus answered, and said to him: What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter. [8] Peter saith to him: Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him: **If I wash thee not, thou shalt have no part with me. **[9] Simon Peter saith to him: Lord, not only my feet, but also my hands and my head. [10] Jesus saith to him: He that is washed, needeth not but to wash his feet, but is clean wholly. And you are clean, but not all. *
Jesus was telling Peter that those who were Baptized were already washed clean in the Blood of the Lamb, but their dirty feet were symbolic of the sins that they committed after that first ‘washing’, that collected on their soul and made them less ‘pure’ than they were at the time of their Baptism. In the last line, He tells Peter that the Apostles were clean, “but not all”. That could have a couple of different meanings. One, that He was referring to the fact that even though they were Baptized, their sins (and ours) that were committed after that point, still needed to be washed away. But, He was also referring to Judas, who could not receive God’s forgiveness because his sin was one of the unforgivable sins that Jesus had spoken about. His was a sin against the Holy Spirit (a sin against faith). Being such a close follower of Jesus, Judas should have never doubted that He was the true Messiah, so his betrayal of Jesus was unforgivable. No matter how close we like to think we are to God, we still might not be as close as we could be.

 

[LilyM]

My take on it in a nutshell:

“If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins”

So… if God forgives us, and we don’t forgive ourselves… isn’t that really presumptuous and arrogant of us? I mean, putting our opinion of ourselves above God’s opinion? Bad idea.

If God says we’re forgiven, we’re forgiven, our sins cast “as far as the East is from the West”, “as though we’d never sinned”, and we should forget about it and move on. No use at all for guilt at that point!

‘forgetting about it’, I find, is the shortest and easiest way to slip straight back into old sinful habits. A healthy (not excessive) dose of guilt about past sin helps me to be more careful, more thoughtful about what leads me into sin, more aware and determined to avoid it in future.