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Voco_proTatiano
Guest
Good solid ground.
I am in full agreement.
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I am in full agreement.
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LCMS_No_More
Guest
And that’s the question, isn’t it? What is reasonable? To a right-winger, no regulation is reasonable. To a centrist, like me, a minimum standard that meets a level of protection for everyone, especially for working people and consumers, but still allows for initiative is reasonable. What this means that as long as you meet the requirement of the regulation, how you do it doesn’t matter, provided, of course, that it is legal. And never underestimate the stupidity of people.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
Consider Thomas Jefferson, “The cure for the evils of democracy is more democracy.” The supposed “evils” of capitalism are actually evils of government intervention. Minimal government intervention is best.
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Al_Masetti
Guest
Well, anyone who has a government pension or who is participating in any kind of pension plan, or who has a 401(k) or any related plan, or who has an IRA or a ROTH IRA or any variation there of … is a capitalist. All those plans invest the members’ money in the stocks of corporations. And those corporations provide our food and fuel, our motor vehicles, our computers … [yup, the computer you are on right this minute is the product of a capitalist corporation] … your clothes, your television and the studios and the actors and the movies, your vacation, the train and bus you ride … may be operated by the gummint, but all the hardware is manufactured by a capitalist corporation … and much of the stock ownership in capitalist corporations is by pension plans.
Many of the folks here are employed by capitalist corporations.
Fancy that. And I’m sure that they all wish that their capitalist corporation employer stays good and healthy and competitive so that it continues to grow and prosper.
So there ya go.
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Al_Masetti
Guest
The problem with socialism and Marx and etc, is that it is enforced by a police state.
The nice thing about capitalism … is that if a corporation fails, it goes out of business. The reward for screwing up is that the company goes away; the employees have to find new jobs; the shareholders lose everything that they invested in the corporation; vendors and customers need to find new supply channels, etc. And some new capitalist corporation employs the workers, and takes care of the vendors and customers. And does so in a more satisfactory and better managed manner.
BUT, when a socialist enterprise fails, it does NOT go away. It just absorbs more and more of the taxpayer money. It sucks up huge amounts of taxpayer money and there is no discipline, such as bankruptcy, to cause the socialist enterprise to bring better management to the effort.
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Al_Masetti
Guest
One thing I love about the Bible is that it takes a hard stand on people who try to just “get by” and feed off others without doing a lick of work themselves. Here’s my favorite verse on this topic:
For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “If a man will not work, he shall not eat.” 2 Thessalonians 3:10
Yep, don’t work, don’t eat. I think that says it all.
Notice that it doesn’t say that those who CAN NOT work should not eat. No, we should have compassion on and help out those people. But if someone can work, yet WILL NOT work, then he’s left to the consequences of his actions (or inactions in this case).
Here are a couple other verses on this same line of thinking:
Lazy hands make a man poor, but diligent hands bring wealth. Proverbs 10:4
How long will you lie there, you sluggard? When will you get up from your sleep? A little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to rest – and poverty will come on you like a bandit and scarcity like an armed man. Proverbs 6:9-11
So get out there and work! Or find a way to survive without eating.
By the way, the above is from
freemoneyfinance.com/2006/06/the_bible_work_.html
Not much there to give comfort to Socialists!
For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “If a man will not work, he shall not eat.” 2 Thessalonians 3:10
Yep, don’t work, don’t eat. I think that says it all.
Notice that it doesn’t say that those who CAN NOT work should not eat. No, we should have compassion on and help out those people. But if someone can work, yet WILL NOT work, then he’s left to the consequences of his actions (or inactions in this case).
Here are a couple other verses on this same line of thinking:
Lazy hands make a man poor, but diligent hands bring wealth. Proverbs 10:4
How long will you lie there, you sluggard? When will you get up from your sleep? A little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to rest – and poverty will come on you like a bandit and scarcity like an armed man. Proverbs 6:9-11
So get out there and work! Or find a way to survive without eating.
By the way, the above is from
freemoneyfinance.com/2006/06/the_bible_work_.html
Not much there to give comfort to Socialists!
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vern_humphrey
Guest
All correct. Marxism can only work if the state has absolute power. And as every Marxist state has shown, Lord Action was right, “Power tends to corrupt, absolute power corrupts absolutely.”
In a socialist state, you have very little power to change the state – which controls virtually everything. But in a capitalist society, the citizens have the ultimate power – they can say, “I’ll take my business elsewhere” and a poorly-run company will go out of business.
That explains why foreign nations copy much of what our free enterprise system does – from fast food joints, to service stations, to shopping malls. But they do not copy our government-run public school system.
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LCMS_No_More
Guest
The usual right-wing response…no definitions. Deregulation brought us massive spikes in electricity prices here in California because of Texas-based market manipulation. The Enron loophole is causing massive spikes in oil prices because of speculation (I’ve read that up to 60% of the price is due to speculation). It will be sweet when that bubble bursts.
Then again, it may portend a second Great Depression like the Gilded Age produced the first Great Depression. Funny how right-wing economic policies tend to do things like that.
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Voco_proTatiano
Guest
Is it a coincidence, or is it a general rule, that extreme capitalists seem to be protestants, and extreme protestants at that?
I still maintain, that in the original context of left and right, as defined by the French Chamber, those sitting on the right, spoke for law and authority, while those on the left spoke for justice and mercy.
Law and authority belong to Moses.
Justice and Mercy, which spring from Grace, come from Our Lord.
So in the original context of Left and Right, Christianity is Left Wing in the extreme.
So I consider Right Wing Christianity to be an oxymoron.
As for investing capital for the future, remember how Our Lord derided the farmer in the tale, of how he planned to build new barns.
Remember how he said not to lay up treasure on Earth, but rather, what you have in excess to your needs, to give in charity.
Our Lord might have held up people who used capitalistic tools to generate wealth, but he derided those who buried the profit in the ground.
Capitalism is a worthy tool, as long as it remains your slave. Once you allow it to become your master, you are a slave of Mammon.
BTW, my computer, and ALL the parts inside it are made in Comm Chi.
A socialist country is not above using capitalist technology, and a capitalist country should not fear to use socialist welfare.
It is all a matter of balance.
I still maintain, that in the original context of left and right, as defined by the French Chamber, those sitting on the right, spoke for law and authority, while those on the left spoke for justice and mercy.
Law and authority belong to Moses.
Justice and Mercy, which spring from Grace, come from Our Lord.
So in the original context of Left and Right, Christianity is Left Wing in the extreme.
So I consider Right Wing Christianity to be an oxymoron.
As for investing capital for the future, remember how Our Lord derided the farmer in the tale, of how he planned to build new barns.
Remember how he said not to lay up treasure on Earth, but rather, what you have in excess to your needs, to give in charity.
Our Lord might have held up people who used capitalistic tools to generate wealth, but he derided those who buried the profit in the ground.
Capitalism is a worthy tool, as long as it remains your slave. Once you allow it to become your master, you are a slave of Mammon.
BTW, my computer, and ALL the parts inside it are made in Comm Chi.
A socialist country is not above using capitalist technology, and a capitalist country should not fear to use socialist welfare.
It is all a matter of balance.
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LCMS_No_More
Guest
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vern_humphrey
Guest
Bull!!
While it was going on, I asked a California liberal why the State of California didn’t do what the “speculators” were doing. It finally boiled down to, “Our bureaucrats are incompetent.”
No, left wing policies tend to do things like that.Verisimilitude said:
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LCMS_No_More
Guest
Whatever you want to believe, vernie, old chap. Whatever you want to believe. Makes me wonder how much you have riding on the high oil prices. If you do, what’s it like robbing your fellow Americans?
More like our governor was unable to see the scope of the problem and didn’t take action quick enough. Remember, us eeeeeeeevil bureaucrats operate under a chain of command as well. We can’t act without authority to do so. As an ex-military guy, you should understand that concept.While it was going on, I asked a California liberal why the State of California didn’t do what the “speculators” were doing. It finally boiled down to, “Our bureaucrats are incompetent.”
Hmmm…what kind of economy did we have before the Great Depression? Oh, yes. A right-wing paradise known as the Gilded Age. No regulation of any sort on the economy. A massive gap between the wealthy and the poor. What kind of President did we have at the onset of the Great Depression? Oh, yes. A right-winger names Herbert Hoover.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
I don’t know what it’s like robbing my fellow Americans – but perhaps you do?
Then blame him – and blame the people who elected him.
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Voco_proTatiano
Guest
Since I have decided that for the moment at least, Vern has nothing of value to offer, I do not see his posts, and that is better for my blood pressure.
It is very easy to act rapidly if you do not consider the consequences of your actions.
I remember once hearing of a child asking his father if he could stop sparrows dying in winter.
He answered: Yes, shoot them all in summer.
Sparrows will always die in winter. All living creatures die, and they more often die when the times are hardest.
Here there is a cure, but the cure is infinitely worse than the disease.
Many political quick-fixes are like shooting sparrows in summer.
The best solutions require deep thought, and that needs time.
Maybe Vern wants to live in a tiger economy. Fine, but let him not complain when the tiger comes to his door, hungry.
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Al_Masetti
Guest
California did not deregulate electricity prices. They mandated that it be sold below cost. The result was bankruptcy.
Read what Walter E. Williams, the economist, has to say about speculators.
cnsnews.com/ViewCommentary.asp?Page=/Commentary/archive/200805/COM20080530c.html
and here:
gmu.edu/departments/economics/wew/articles/08/Futures%20Markets.htm
Here is Williams’ Web page. His credentials are impeccable.
gmu.edu/departments/economics/wew/
And here is a discussion of how Tom Sowell, another well published economist, explained speculation.
jsobservations.blogspot.com/2008/05/economics-of-oil-you-regular-readers.html
And here:
tsowell.com/
And Sowell’s collected archived columns.
jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell1.asp
And specifically on speculation (part 1 of a three parter):
jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell051308.php3
Here’s part 2 of Sowell on speculation:
jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell051408.php3
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LCMS_No_More
Guest
I’ve blocked him a few times, but I’m always drawn back to see what he posts…almost like a train wreck. Morbid curiosity, I suppose.
Well, I think it’s because he listens to what his radio and FAUXNews tell him is true and runs with that. I could be wrong, but it’s highly unlikely.
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LCMS_No_More
Guest
You were here? Fortunately, I live in the City of Los Angeles and we didn’t have to suffer through the rolling blackouts because DWP was wise enough to invest in a lot of generating plants beforehand.
Actually, the distribution was not deregulated but the generating of power was. Since power generating firms could hold back on needed power (hoarding), they could create an artificial “shortage” and drive the prices up.
That, I believe, is part of what’s going on in the oil market. Speculating firms and oil companies are hoarding so they can sell their $70.00 oil at $150.00 and make more than 100% profit with no risk. They create an artificial “shortage,” drive the price up and make a killing.
St. Paul had it right: The love of money is the root of all evil.
Time to close the Enron loophole.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
Name the “speculating firms and oil companies” and tell us how they are “hoarding” oil.
Oil prices are high because:
- Nations that have oil are under-producing and holding oil off the market.
- The demand for oil is rising, especially in China and India.
- The oil companies are not allowed to drill for oil in most of the US, or off our coasts.
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Al_Masetti
Guest
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_electricity_crisis
reason.org/commentaries/summers_20051029.shtml
jewishworldreview.com/cols/williams052301.asp
hoover.org/publications/digest/3459551.html
townhall.com/columnists/ThomasSowell/2001/01/25/rolling_blackouts
Sowell is an economist who lives in California.
reason.org/commentaries/summers_20051029.shtml
jewishworldreview.com/cols/williams052301.asp
hoover.org/publications/digest/3459551.html
townhall.com/columnists/ThomasSowell/2001/01/25/rolling_blackouts
Sowell is an economist who lives in California.
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