Catholics And The Creation Account

[rmcmullan]

1. How is there light and darkness, evening and morning for 3 days before the sun and stars are created on the 4th day?

For what it’s worth, one of the LDS accounts of the creation have this translated a little differently. It says that the sun and stars were "caused to appear" on the fourth day.

This makes some kind of sense in the geological sequence. After the earth is formed, the plants appear and then the atmosphere clears.

 

[Realcatholicgk]

For what it’s worth, one of the LDS accounts of the creation have this translated a little differently. It says that the sun and stars were "caused to appear" on the fourth day.

**
Well that clears that up! I mean if you can’t trust a corrupted writting from the LDS who could you trust? I mean they were there on the first 7 days weren’t they? **

This makes some kind of sense in the geological sequence.

**
It does? I rather read the word of God than LDSs but that is just me, being a christian! **

After the earth is formed, the plants appear and then the atmosphere clears.
**
That isn’t in any bible that I have read. Come on you could make up a better story than that. How about you rewriting Genesis and submitting it here for approval!

God Bless.**

 

[rmcmullan]

Realcatholicgk:
Are you insane? I can think of nothing else that would make you so angry.

 

[Realcatholicgk]

Are you insane? I can think of nothing else that would make you so angry.

**
hi Mac,

Do you realize you can be banned for that remark? It is a gross violation of the TOS! Have you read them? You better read them if you want to remain on CAF. The Mod will ban you real quick. It is a good thing I like a funny joke I knew you were just kidding, so there was no harm done.

Who is angry? Whatever gave you an idea like that? There is an old saying “A person that angers you, owns you”! I have not seen anything to get angry about. Most people here are foolish and ignorant remember half the world doesn’t understand the other half and it doesn’t matter which half you’re in.

God Bless**

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

“Why would people use two other tales in Genesis to prove things that the each conflict with? These tales are of happenings before history, placed together so that we could learn the “Religious Truths” that God wanted revealed to us through them . No sane person would think they were true word for word especially when they even conflict themselves! That would be foolish wouldn’t it? I actually think that is why God wanted them buth included so we would realize that they contained religious nor historical truth!”

If “Religious Truths” are based on untruths, then what gives them credibility or veracity?

capt

**ISTM you might be confusing truth with historical fact. **​

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**The parables are fictions - that doesn’t make them unable to communicate ethical truths. Sometimes a story is the best way to communcat****e a truth. **

 

[Realcatholicgk]

**ISTM you might be confusing truth with historical fact. **​

---

The parables are fictions - that doesn’t make them unable to communicate ethical truths. Sometimes a story is the best way to communcate** a truth. **

**
Hi Gottler, Well WE both got it! Why do you think Capt and others had such a hard time? They do seem intelligent.

Have you ever noticed the other proofs that these are just fables that God used to reveal to humans real truths, as they could underrstand them?

1. Which first ~ beasts or man?

MAN:
GEN 2:18-19 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof

BEASTS
GEN 1:25-26 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

1. The number of beasts that went into the ark?

GEN 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

GEN 7:8-9 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, there went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

1. Birds Made from waters or ground?

GEN 1:20-21 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

4.) CREATION! Our favorite! ,Here is the order in the first (Genesis 1), the Priestly tradition:

Day 1: Sky, Earth, light
Day 2: Water, both in ocean basins and above the sky(!)
Day 3: Plants
Day 4: Sun, Moon, stars (as calendrical and navigational aids)
Day 5: Sea monsters (whales), fish, birds, land animals, creepy-crawlies (reptiles, insects, etc.)
Day 6: Humans (apparently both sexes at the same time)
Day 7: Nothing (the Gods took the first day off anyone ever did)
Always note that there are “days,” “evenings,” and “mornings” before the Sun was created. Here, the Deity is referred to as “Elohim,” which is a plural, thus the literal translation, “the Gods.” In this tale, the Gods seem satisfied with what they have done, saying after each step that “it was good.”

CREATION: The second one (Genesis 2), the Yahwist tradition, goes:

Earth and heavens (misty)
Adam, the first man (on a desolate Earth)
Plants
Animals
Eve, the first woman (from Adam’s rib)

How orderly were things created?

#1: Step-by-step. The only discrepancy is that there is no Sun or Moon or stars on the first three “days.” Did God forget?

#2: But, God fixes things up as he goes. The first man is lonely, and is not satisfied with animals. God finally creates a woman for him.

How satisfied with creation was God?

#1: God says “it was good” after each of his labors, and rests on the seventh day, evidently very satisfied.

#2: But, God has to fix up his creation as he goes, and he would certainly not be very satisfied with the disobedience of that primordial couple.

God being “all powerful” could have created everything is a blink of His eye couldn’t He? Why dose there seem to be so much work involved? God “knows” all. Why did He "walk around looking for Adam and Eve?

But all these things must be absolutely true. :whacky: They are written in the bible! :hypno: They must all be fact! :doh2:

Later,:takeoff:

God Bless**

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

**
Hi Gottler, Well WE both got it! Why do you think Capt and others had such a hard time? They do seem intelligent.

Have you ever noticed the other proofs that these are just fables that God used to reveal to humans real truths, as they could underrstand them?

1. Which first ~ beasts or man?**

MAN:
GEN 2:18-19 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof

BEASTS
GEN 1:25-26 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

1. The number of beasts that went into the ark?

GEN 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

GEN 7:8-9 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, there went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

1. Birds Made from waters or ground?

GEN 1:20-21 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

4.) CREATION! Our favorite! ,Here is the order in the first (Genesis 1), the Priestly tradition:

Day 1: Sky, Earth, light
Day 2: Water, both in ocean basins and above the sky(!)
Day 3: Plants
Day 4: Sun, Moon, stars (as calendrical and navigational aids)
Day 5: Sea monsters (whales), fish, birds, land animals, creepy-crawlies (reptiles, insects, etc.)
Day 6: Humans (apparently both sexes at the same time)
Day 7: Nothing (the Gods took the first day off anyone ever did)
Always note that there are “days,” “evenings,” and “mornings” before the Sun was created. Here, the Deity is referred to as “Elohim,” which is a plural, thus the literal translation, “the Gods.” In this tale, the Gods seem satisfied with what they have done, saying after each step that “it was good.”

CREATION: The second one (Genesis 2), the Yahwist tradition, goes:

Earth and heavens (misty)
Adam, the first man (on a desolate Earth)
Plants
Animals
Eve, the first woman (from Adam’s rib)

How orderly were things created?

#1: Step-by-step. The only discrepancy is that there is no Sun or Moon or stars on the first three “days.” Did God forget?

#2: But, God fixes things up as he goes. The first man is lonely, and is not satisfied with animals. God finally creates a woman for him.

How satisfied with creation was God?

#1: God says “it was good” after each of his labors, and rests on the seventh day, evidently very satisfied.

#2: But, God has to fix up his creation as he goes, and he would certainly not be very satisfied with the disobedience of that primordial couple.

God being “all powerful” could have created everything is a blink of His eye couldn’t He? Why dose there seem to be so much work involved? God “knows” all. Why did He "walk around looking for Adam and Eve?

But all these things must be absolutely true. :whacky: They are written in the bible! :hypno: They must all be fact! :doh2:

Later,:takeoff:

God Bless

Hi Realcathoicgk and Happy New Year!

These are excellent comparisons that you provide to illustrate the challenge in accepting these stories as literal. Non-believers use these to argue that there is no God. Believers read these for the spiritual truths God reveals to mankind. The literalists may do more harm to God’s revelations than the Non-believers.

I have yet to see any of the “literalists” effectively or convincingly address these seeming contradictions on this thread (or any other thread for that matter)…it must make their heads ache.

God bless all!!!

 

[Grateful4mercy]

This has been the most entertaining and informative thread I have read in a long time on CAF. See, all that debate DOES have value

BTW, nobody caught this, but I nominate this for the “Quote of the Year Award”!!

I have here a copy of “The New American Bible.” It is called “The Saint Joseph Edition,” and this is authorized by “The Board Of trustees, of The Confraternity of Christian Doctrine.”

There are many “helps for Bible reading” within this volume, and I would like to address one of these “helps” that are found for some of the text we are looking at in Genesis.

I would like to say a parenthetical comment here though that I am surprised to see what I have been reading in this obviously Catholic version of the Bible. Catholics on this board have been very critical of Adventists and others for “writing their own Bible;” yet they feel so very free to turn around and do it themselves with The New American Bible. It has definitely been conjured up to fit Catholic specific doctrines.

 

[Realcatholicgk]

This has been the most entertaining and informative thread I have read in a long time on CAF. See, all that debate DOES have value

BTW, nobody caught this, but I nominate this for the “Quote of the Year Award”!!

**
Hi Grateful,

Wow! I nominate that for “Stupid Statement Of The Century” If it makes it I think it will go unchallenged 91 more years! My jaw actually dropped openwhen I read that. .

Such stupidity. That is the problem. The Protestants actually think they are branches on the tree of Christianty rather than a type of Raffaelea Lauricola.

“For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.” 1 Co 14: 33

Why The Confusion? The 100 or so versions of The JKV Bible are clearly part of Satan’s Master plan to keep Protestants confounded amongst themselves. This allows him to divide and corrupt them more and more. They now assume because there are 61,000 phoney churches that the catholic church is one of them. How wrong could they be?
Let me assure you that if your trusty bible isn’t a Catholic church authenticated Bible, it just isn’t real scriptures. Plus if you attempt to interpret any version of a bible by yourself, I recommend that you write your own version for all the truth you might get out of it. God 's Word is taught correctly only by His church.

Satan distorts bibles and clouds the eyes of the believers.“When the Devil quotes Scriptures, it’s not, really, to deceive, but simply that the masses are so ignorant of theology that somebody
has to teach them the elementary texts before he can seduce them.” - Paul Goodman

Satan is a liar! “Do not consider it proof just because it is written in books, for a liar who will deceive with his tongue will not hesitate to do the same with his pen.” - Maimonides:thumbsup:

We really have to pray that God finally allows Protestants to receive the correct saving words of Jesus.

God Bless**

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

This has been the most entertaining and informative thread I have read in a long time on CAF. See, all that debate DOES have value

BTW, nobody caught this, but I nominate this for the “Quote of the Year Award”!!

Hi Grateful4mercy,

I did catch this back on page 5 in Post # 74 of this thread, but it was embedded in the rest of my reply to Protestant101. Here is what I said and you can go back and read the entire post if you’d like:

“Notice that He created Lights on the 4th day by saying “Let there be lights”. And notice that “lights” in verse 14 is plural. Verse 16 says that God made two great lights to govern the day and night, and he also made the stars. (the scipture quotes above are from the NIV…but the singular and plural shows up in all the other versions I’ve looked at including your King James Version and The New American Version ) Read the verses in the Bible, not the Helps…the Helps are not the scriptures…nothing has been changed in the scriptures in any of the versions…you are just not reading the scriptures prayerfully or carefully.”

As for the different Bibles, KJV, NIV, RSV, NAB, etc. they are all translations of the Hebrew and Greek manuscripts, and believe it or not, but the KJV translates some verses better than other versions.

The major difference is that the protestants removed the Dueterocannonical books (what they call the apocrapha) from the OT, whereas the Catholic Church retained them because they were contained in the Septuagint (LXX). The LXX was a Greek translation of the Hebrew scriptures and the version of scriptures which Jesus used in His time period.

The original King James Version contained the Deuterocannonical books when it was first published, but later on those book were removed by the protestants.

God bless all!!!

 

[Realcatholicgk]

As for the different Bibles, KJV, NIV, RSV, NAB, etc. they are all translations of the Hebrew and Greek manuscripts, and believe it or not, but the KJV translates some verses better than other versions.

**
Hi Pat,

Patrick, The point is Protestants nor any else has “authority” to determine content or correctness of the Bible.

Asl just because some is elequently written makes it not “better” just different until you change the meaning of what is being said! There in lies the problem/. It would be like me rewriting Gone with the Wind to make it better, etc. Not my job! and I don’t know what that single author meant there are over 5,000 bible authors?

God Bless

**

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

Hi Pat,

Patrick, The point is Protestants nor any else has “authority” to determine content or correctness of the Bible.

Hi Realcatholicgk, I completely agree with you! The Church is not the result of the Bible…the Bible is the result of the Church under the direction of the Holy Spirit. Without The Church, there would be no Bible.

Asl just because some is elequently written makes it not “better” just different until you change the meaning of what is being said! There in lies the problem/. It would be like me rewriting Gone with the Wind to make it better, etc. Not my job! and I don’t know what that single author meant there are over 5,000 bible authors?

God Bless

Most of the Bible translations are respectable scholarly works. There are some that are not.

It is not so much like you rewriting Gone With The Wind to make it better, but more like, you and 150 others independently translating that book into German, or any other language. There will be differences, but the translations will only be as true to the original as the scholars’ grasp of both the English and German languages.

But no matter how good your translation of Gone With The Wind is from English to German…if you leave out 7 chapters of the book, you really aren’t true to the original. And when people read Gone With The Wind minus 7 chapters, they are going to have a different view of what the author was saying as compared to those who read the entire book!!

A translator’s work should never be to make it better, but to make it accurate.

God bless all!!!

 

[Protestant101]

Hi Grateful4mercy,

The major difference is that the protestants removed the Dueterocannonical books (what they call the apocrapha) from the OT, whereas the Catholic Church retained them because they were contained in the Septuagint (LXX). The LXX was a Greek translation of the Hebrew scriptures and the version of scriptures which Jesus used in His time period.

No. This is not true. Protestants only took away what Catholics added to the original.

Catholics have proven that they need their own version, the NA version, in which many things were changed to suit better some of the “newer” Catholic doctrines that have arisen over the centuries.

I wonder if anyone will be able to tell me official Catholic teachings on the creation questions I asked, as they pertain to Catholic beliefs in evolution?

What specific strains of evolution would NOT contradict “Catholic Faith?” (meaning “The Deposit Of Faith” as the Roman Catholic Church has coined it.)

While you keep chattering about all the supposed “contradictions” in the literalist views on Genesis, (WHICH YOU HAVE NOT PROVED CONCLUSOIVELY, you conveniently sidestep your own teachings, on one of the most important subjects in the Bible. Your “questions” about creation only serve to a) discredit the Bible’s authority, SUBJECTING IT TO THE AUTHORITY OF “REASON AND LOGIC”, b) and to make cloudy what the Bible clearly states.

After a lovely break over the holidays; I AM BACK TO CONTINUE FOR ANOTHER YEAR WITH ALL MY “FRIENDS” AT CATHOLIC ANSWERS!!

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

No. This is not true. Protestants only took away what Catholics added to the original.

Catholics have proven that they need their own version, the NA version, in which many things were changed to suit better some of the “newer” Catholic doctrines that have arisen over the centuries.

Hi Protestant101…welcome back and Happy New Year! It’s cold down here so I can only imagine what it’s like up your way.

You are wrong about what you state above. A little simple research on your part should clear that up easy enough…it’s well documented history.

God bless all!!!