Catholics and the "End Times"

[reteeks21]

Good morning. I was just wondering if Catholics believed as many Protestants do in the idea of a Rapture. I think this is a very interesting and fun topic for discussion, so let’s keep it civil. Please, enlighten a brother.

 

[thomasf]

In a word: No. Catholics do not believe in the rapture, as it is not biblical.

 

[heisenburg]

Catholics believe in a post trib form of Rapture. In other words that only on the last last day, after the resurection will there be a rapture. This means Christians will unfortunantly go through the tribulation period mentioned in Scripture

Catholics also generally believe in an amillennialist point of view. This means that we believe the 1000 years is current and that Jesus’s reign began at the cross.

Compare this to current popular idea… The Left Behind idea of rapture is relatively new and is the product of a gentlemen named John Darby in the 1820’s. Prior to this, there are only two other refrences… One is by a Catholic Monk in the late 1700’s who in a thought experiment developed a very primitive version of this, and there is one other mention by psudo-eferim(sp) But this particular reference may not even be talking about a pretrib rapture, but something else all together.

In essence, Left Behind end times is a very very new development, and was never taught by the earliest Christians, up through John Darby, nearly 1800 years.

Hope that Helps

In Christ

 

[reteeks21]

I totally agree that the Rapture as is told today is a very recent and new idea. But I am curious: why do you disagree with the Rapture but believe in the Tribulation?

 

[heisenburg]

There is talk in scripture of a great tribulation period for the church. It may not be how LeHaye explains it, but there is going to be some turmoil just before the Second coming.

So, do I believe there will be a tribulation period? Absolutely…

DO I believe in the Left Behind version of “Tribulation”? Absolutely not

Personal opinion… With so many ‘views’ on end times right now, I think we know LESS about the last days than we ever have…

In Christ

 

[thomasf]

I totally agree that the Rapture as is told today is a very recent and new idea. But I am curious: why do you disagree with the Rapture but believe in the Tribulation?

Because the rapture, as believed by many protestants today, isn’t biblical.

 

[reteeks21]

I personally think that it is a joke. I believe that Christ’s kingdom was ushered in when the Temple was destroyed in 70 A.D. I also think that LaHaye has a.)misrepresented Scripture, and b.) he can’t recant because his multimillion dollar empire would crumble. Anyone disagree with these assessments we have all stated? I would love to hear from you if you do.

 

[thomasf]

Tim Lahaye isn’t the one who started the whole rapture thing. It goes back to the early 1800s. People like John Darby and Scoeffield are the real culprits in misrepresenting scripture.

 

[lizaanne]

Take a quick listen to THIS. I think this is one of the best explainations of what Catholics believe, and the Truth about the “rapture” that I’ve ever heard.

~Liza

 

[reteeks21]

Tim Lahaye isn’t the one who started the whole rapture thing. It goes back to the early 1800s. People like John Darby and Scoeffield are the real culprits in misrepresenting scripture.

I agree totally, but I believe that he has become their prophet. But let me state that I do not think LaHaye has done merely for financial gain. I think he REALLy believes in that stuff, and when people are like that there is no stopping them.

 

[NDfan]

Catholics believe in a post trib form of Rapture. In other words that only on the last last day, after the resurection will there be a rapture. This means Christians will unfortunantly go through the tribulation period mentioned in Scripture

Catholics also generally believe in an amillennialist point of view. This means that we believe the 1000 years is current and that Jesus’s reign began at the cross.

How do you account for the fact that Jesus was crucified well over 1000 years ago. What reign are we in now then? The 1000 year reign is supposed to have Jesus physically on earth with Satan in chains. That certainly has not happened.

Compare this to current popular idea… The Left Behind idea of rapture is relatively new and is the product of a gentlemen named John Darby in the 1820’s. Prior to this, there are only two other refrences… One is by a Catholic Monk in the late 1700’s who in a thought experiment developed a very primitive version of this, and there is one other mention by psudo-eferim(sp) But this particular reference may not even be talking about a pretrib rapture, but something else all together.

In essence, Left Behind end times is a very very new development, and was never taught by the earliest Christians, up through John Darby, nearly 1800 years.

Hope that Helps

In Christ

 

[Stillkickin]

The Catholic Church does not believe in the rapture and neither should you.

Here are some good books on this:

1: The Rature Trap
2: Rapture: The End-Times Error That Leaves the Bible Behind
3: Will Catholics Be Left Behind
4: Trial, Tribulation & Triumph: Before, During, and After Antichrist

I have read all four, and I have put them in the order that I would recommend them.

Stillkcikin

 

[heisenburg]

How do you account for the fact that Jesus was crucified well over 1000 years ago. What reign are we in now then? The 1000 year reign is supposed to have Jesus physically on earth with Satan in chains. That certainly has not happened.

For starters, it is not a literal 1000 years. When looking at Jewish Tradition of the time, numbers mean more than jsut the literal number, 1000 also means A lot. In other words, this passage means that Jesus will reign for “a lot” of years. Just as there will not be a literal 144000 people saved. This number comes from the idea that a lot (1000) of Jews (represented by 12 tribes) and a lot of gentiles (represented by the 12 apostles) 1000 X 12 X 12 = 144000

To comment on Jesus not currently reigning… Who is the head of the Church on Earth? Do you wish to imply that Christ is NOT currently the head of the Church? Was the Devil not defeated at the Cross?

For a Catholic, he is physically here in the Eucharist…

In Christ

 

[thomasf]

I agree totally, but I believe that he has become their prophet. But let me state that I do not think LaHaye has done merely for financial gain. I think he REALLy believes in that stuff, and when people are like that there is no stopping them.

That’s the problem. So many protestants really, really believe in this false teaching, and it leads them away from the truth.

The best way to sum up catholic beliefs on end times is right in the Creed.

“He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and His kingdom will have no end.”

Really, there’s not a lot more to it than that. The idea is to aim for Christ, become closer to Him, so that when He does come again (not again and again) to judge, you’re on the right side of that judgement. Everything else, the signs of the times, what this might mean today, what this sign might mean, what the stars say, is irrelevant. Don’t worry about when it’s going to happen, or how. Just get yourself ready, every day. All the other stuff will fall into place where it will, when God wills it.

 

[Fidelis]

Here is what Catholics believe:

When each of us dies, our souls are immediately taken to the presence of God and judged. This is called the Particular Judgment. At this point we begin our eternal destiny. If we are going to hell, our souls go directly there. If we are deemed worthy of heaven, our souls will go directly to heaven, or if we are going to heaven but are in need of purification, we may go to Purgatory first for a while (everyone in Purgatory will eventually go to heaven). Whatever our fate, our souls will stay there (heaven or hell) until the end of time, at which time the Second Coming will occur.

At the Second Coming at the end of time, those Christians still alive and who are in a state of sanctifying grace will be taken to heaven (what some Protestants think of as of the rapture). Then will occur the General Judgment. At that time the souls of the living and the dead will be reunited with their bodies and brought together in God’s presence and judged before all. Those who have already been judged in the Particular Judgment will be brought from wherever their souls were -heaven, hell or Purgatory-- and have their judgment confirmed before all, so that both the justice and mercy of God will be manifest to all.

After this, time and Purgatory will be no more and all will enter with their souls and bodies into their eternal destiny, either hell or heaven.

This is an extremely bare-bones sketch, so if you want to get the details, see the five articles I linked below:

rosary-center.org/ll57n1.htm
rosary-center.org/ll57n2.htm
rosary-center.org/ll57n3.htm
rosary-center.org/ll57n4.htm
rosary-center.org/ll49n6.htm

In addition, you have to learn to recognize erroneous teachings about the End Times popularized by fundamentalists. In other words, toss out the “Left Behind” and “Late, Great Planet Earth” baloney. Here are some resources to help you develop some discernment in these areas:

catholic.com/library/rapture.asp
catholic.com/thisrock/2000/0011fea2.asp
catholic.com/library/false_profit.asp
catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0211fea3.asp
catholic.com/thisrock/2000/0001fea1.asp
catholic.com/thisrock/1995/9510ntg.asp
catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0209fea5.asp
catholic.com/thisrock/1998/9812chap.asp
catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0304bt.asp
catholic.com/thisrock/1997/9705chap.asp
catholic.com/thisrock/1994/9409fea4.asp
catholic.com/thisrock/1994/9410fea2.asp
catholic.com/thisrock/2000/0009bite.asp
carl-olson.com/rapture_articles.html

Finally, here are some resources to help you develop a well-balanced Catholic understanding of the Book of Revelation, biblical prophecy, and eschatology. All of these are HIGHLY recommended:

The Navarre Bible Commentary on the Book of Revelation
The Navarre Bible Commentary on the Major Prophets
The Navarre Bible Commentary on the Minor Prophets
amazon.com/gp/search/ref=br_ss_hs/102-2381711-9848916?platform=gurupa&url=index%3Dblended&keywords=navarre+bible

The End: The Book of Revelation, tape/CD series and Study Guide by Dr. Scott Hahn.
saintjoe.com/more-info.php?product=177&Title=The-End

The Lamb’s Supper, by Dr. Scott Hahn.
amazon.com/gp/product/0385496591/sr=8-1/qid=1148926012/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-2381711-9848916?%5Fencoding=UTF8

Rapture: The End Times Fiction that Leaves Truth Behind, by David Curie
amazon.com/Rapture-End-Times-Error-Leaves-Behind/dp/1928832725/ref=sr_1_1/105-8298365-5498833?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1188139548&sr=1-1

Revelation Revealed, tapes/CD series by Michael Barber
saintjoe.com/more-info.php?product=245&Title=Revelation-Revealed

Coming Soon, a book on this same topic by Michael Barber
amazon.com/Coming-Soon-Unlocking-Revelation-Applying/dp/193101826X

Introduction To Prophecy, CD set by Steve Wood
familylifecenter.net/cart/product_detail.cfm?Id=613

Hope that helps!

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

didache Chapter 16. Watchfulness; the Coming of the Lord. Watch for your life’s sake. Let not your lamps be quenched, nor your loins unloosed; but be ready, for you know not the hour in which our Lord will come. But come together often, seeking the things which are befitting to your souls: for the whole time of your faith will not profit you, if you are not made perfect in the last time. For in the last days false prophets and corrupters shall be multiplied, and the sheep shall be turned into wolves, and love shall be turned into hate; for when lawlessness increases, they shall hate and persecute and betray one another, and then shall appear the world-deceiver as Son of God, and shall do signs and wonders, and the earth shall be delivered into his hands, and he shall do iniquitous things which have never yet come to pass since the beginning. Then shall the creation of men come into the fire of trial, and many shall be made to stumble and shall perish; but those who endure in their faith shall be saved from under the curse itself. And then shall appear the signs of the truth: first, the sign of an outspreading in heaven, then the sign of the sound of the trumpet. And third, the resurrection of the dead – yet not of all, but as it is said: “The Lord shall come and all His saints with Him.” Then shall the world see the Lord coming upon the clouds of heaven.
earlychristianwritings.com/text/didache-roberts.html

 

[Lampo]

Fr. John Corapi says we should each focus on our own “end times” by persevering in faith, hope and love. The “end times” for you and me is when we die.

 

[reteeks21]

Fr. John Corapi says we should each focus on our own “end times” by persevering in faith, hope and love. The “end times” for you and me is when we die.

I agree. When folks like LaHaye and Hal Lindsay spend so much time focusing on the Rapture, they are in essence telling us to forget enjoying this life God has given us. I think that is terribly sad. I believe God intended more for us (much like Henri Nouwen said) than fear. Any thoughts?

 

[Lampo]

I agree. When folks like LaHaye and Hal Lindsay spend so much time focusing on the Rapture, they are in essence telling us to forget enjoying this life God has given us. I think that is terribly sad. I believe God intended more for us (much like Henri Nouwen said) than fear. Any thoughts?

Quite honestly, the Rapture theories are so bizarre and Biblically unfounded that they are barely in my radar. If you think about it, all of the end times theorists in the history of the world have been wrong so far. I put all of my trust in God and the Church He established.

 

[Volodymyr_988]

Is there not a theory out there in Protestantland in which “Jesus” supposedly comes back to reign as king in Jerusalem and re-establishes the Old Testament type sacrifices? (The kind that cannot take away sin.)

If that does happen, guess what, it ain’t Jesus who will do that.

He was sacrificed “once, for all” to take away the sins of the world.

No, that will be the Anti-Christ who comes to unite everyone in a kingdom under the animal sacrifice.

That is, if that is really what is going to happen.