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Fiyero3305
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Alisa, I hope you know that it was Jesus Himself who said that the Way is narrow.
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savienu
Guest
It has become clear that some people will never listen, and will jump through hoops to defend their grave error in voting for a man such as Barack Obama. It reminds me of the parable of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke’s Gospel, Chapter 16, particularly about repentance:
19"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell,[a] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
25"But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
**27"He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father’s house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
29"Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
30" ‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
31"He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ **
I don’t know how anyone can call themselves Catholic yet continue to ignore the loving guidance of the Church, and continue to defend voting for Barack Obama. It just blows my mind.
19"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell,[a] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
25"But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
**27"He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father’s house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
29"Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
30" ‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
31"He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ **
I don’t know how anyone can call themselves Catholic yet continue to ignore the loving guidance of the Church, and continue to defend voting for Barack Obama. It just blows my mind.
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mulligan59
Guest
And don’t forget the rest: “…few will find it”.
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mulligan59
Guest
Without the Jewish religion, we Christians would be Christians. Our religion comes from Christ, not from the Jews. Now the Old Testament points to Christ, provides overwhelming evidence of who Jesus really was. But those who remained Jews, rejected this evidence and in doing so rejected (and still reject) God. This is what Christ said about it. On the other hand, many who were never Jews became Christians. “He came unto his own and his own received him not. But as many as received him to them he gave the power to be made the sons of God.” (Saint John)
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Alisa
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I know there are many ways to be Catholic, and it simply isn’t in me to be a narrow-viewing, fundamentalist Catholic. Many Catholics are broad-minded and view people of other persuasions with love and respect. In that setting, there is room for an interesting exchange of ideas. We can learn from Islamic and Jewish people and they from us, for instance. Many of the people who post on CAF don’t seem to have ecumenical feelings at all.
In order to love God and my fellow human beings, I’ve never felt I had to be the only one “in the right” and everybody else wrong, misled, mistaken, or whatever. That is, of course when I was a child growing up, I remember hearing there was no salvation outside of the Catholic Church, etc. But until trying to contribute to CAF, I didn’t know there were people who still felt that way. I’m sure that way of thinking makes people feel secure, but it sounds a little smug to me.
I know, don’t say it! – next I will hear “there is one, and one only way to be Catholic, the traditional way, etc., etc.” And also, I will be accused of “relativism”. So be it!
Alisa
In order to love God and my fellow human beings, I’ve never felt I had to be the only one “in the right” and everybody else wrong, misled, mistaken, or whatever. That is, of course when I was a child growing up, I remember hearing there was no salvation outside of the Catholic Church, etc. But until trying to contribute to CAF, I didn’t know there were people who still felt that way. I’m sure that way of thinking makes people feel secure, but it sounds a little smug to me.
I know, don’t say it! – next I will hear “there is one, and one only way to be Catholic, the traditional way, etc., etc.” And also, I will be accused of “relativism”. So be it!
Alisa
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Fiyero3305
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Alisa, what do you believe Jesus meant by “the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.”?
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mulligan59
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Alisa
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What do I believe about “the gate is narrow, etc.”? I think He meant it is hard to be a human being on this earth however God has been revealed to one, and that it is sometimes hard to live in the way God has asked of us. Sometimes it’s difficult to discern the specific path God has for each of us!
Speaking for myself alone, I am very happy to be a Catholic, a Christian, and a daughter of God on this earth. I’ve had a wonderful life so far. But I refuse to judge the sincere and honest faiths of others, to whom God has revealed Himself in different ways. I have enough on my plate trying to do God’s will in my own life without proselytizing to others (unless you say I’m proselytizing right now, and maybe I am – sorry!)
I ask God to guide me every morning as I wake up. I feel that He is.
Alisa
Speaking for myself alone, I am very happy to be a Catholic, a Christian, and a daughter of God on this earth. I’ve had a wonderful life so far. But I refuse to judge the sincere and honest faiths of others, to whom God has revealed Himself in different ways. I have enough on my plate trying to do God’s will in my own life without proselytizing to others (unless you say I’m proselytizing right now, and maybe I am – sorry!)
I ask God to guide me every morning as I wake up. I feel that He is.
Alisa
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Alisa
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I forgot to ask: Do some of you actually feel Vatican II was heretical?
Alisa
Alisa
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savienu
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Where does the Church teach “there is more than one way to be Catholic”? Why call yourself Catholic if you don’t profess what she professes? I know several people like this, and I still can’t figure it out.
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mulligan59
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Alisa;5198520]
Alisa, Mulligan again. I have to say your light hearted, care free obstinance is stunning! You call yourself a Christian, but then say that the faiths of others, who deny Christ, in fact who truly hate Christ in the case of the Jews and the Moslems (don’t believe me read the Talmud or the Koran) are “revealed by God”. You don’t have to be a Bible scholar or a trained apologist to see the silliness of your position; you only have to be logical. Jesus could not have been more emphatic in saying that He was the only way, in saying that belief in him was absolutely necassary. If you reject this (as implicitly you do, there is no other way to interpret your attitude) you reject what Christ said. Why call yourself a follower of one you don’t even believe? Yes it is difficult to put yourself out there and “proselylize” as you say. But that is called Charity. Now you’re not obligated or even called to go around and try to convert everyone you meet. But you are obligated to defend the faith or to correct people when circumstances call for it. This is not arrogance on my part, rather it is more arroagant to call others arrogant (as you keep doing) who merely point out to you the meaning of the faith you claim to hold. Maybe you should be a Universalist Unitarian. They believe in nothing and everything at the same time.
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mapleoak
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You should consider taking this to the Apologetics forum as neither this forum nor this thread are the appropriate place for you to be questioning the teaching authority of Catholic Church. It is an entirely different topic.
No, the Church is the “Mystical Body of Christ”.
Now when you claim that Pope John Paul II is a fraud and that he together with the magisterium of the Church during the Vatican II taught heresy, you are claiming: That apostolic succession is illegitimate, (the same error proclaimed by the schismatic Society of Saint Pius X sect which FYI was condemned by the Church), and that the Holy Ghost abandoned the Church and allowed it to teach error.
No, the whole thing is true, not just the first part (the church does not lie). Someone knowing the teachings of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church to be true, and who chooses to reject them, rejects the Church. This does not apply to those deprived, through no fault of their own and through invincible ignorance, of the teachings of the Church.
You posed a questioned, and made a conclusion depending on the answer to the question. Your conclusion does not follow. (further it is incorrect).
Sorry, you don’t get to pick who the Holy Father and visible head of the Church is. You can either choose to belong to the Church or reject it.
I don’t claim to belong to a Church where the Pope can manifest heresy. I belong to the Holy Catholic Church instituted by Christ. It is impossible that the Pope could promulgate heresy, otherwise the Holy Spirit is a liar. Stop the blasphemy.
Pope John Paul II, isn’t (wasn’t) the Pope? Who does your personal church claim to be its leader?
Reiterating, though, this is not the appropriate thread to question the teaching authority, apostolic succession, or the infallibility of the Church. If you would like to continue, please start a thread on these topics in the apologetics forums.
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maggiemay2u
Guest
Speaking for some of us
I would say we “actually” feel VC2 was meritorious and holy. The bastardization and twisting of the Council’s findings and directives is where the heterodox is found. The notion that we can somehow be at odds with Church teaching and God’s law is the folly of fools. Those who are too lazy and complacent to stand up for the Church of Rome, and too cowardly to leave it, are the stuff of which heresy is made…
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kage_ar
Guest
Interesting that the abortion threads turn into VII or EENS threads 
Alicia - please get a copy of the Catechism, it will be quite interesting reading for you. Have your Bible there while you read it, and look up the references.
Alicia - please get a copy of the Catechism, it will be quite interesting reading for you. Have your Bible there while you read it, and look up the references.
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mapleoak
Guest
Quite true. In fact the Holy Spirit knows exactly what He is doing. Since the Church is a “living Magisterium” it is constantly evolving for the better.Speaking for some of us
Further, it is those who misinterpret the teachings of the Holy Vatican Councils (and all Church Councils) who are in grave error, not the Church or Holy Spirit that are in error.
Sadly many are easy prey for the teachings of the numberous schismatic sects since Vatican II which are the devil’s way of attacking the Church from within. he has been very successful in leading many astray by leading them to question and attack the authority of the Church. Our Lady of Fatima in fact has warned that the Holy Father would have much to suffer.
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mulligan59
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NTOT
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Ah ha ha ha! Good one!
I needed a good laugh today!
Actually, though its not even funny, but tragic that people have fallen for the errors of these schismatic sects. Mulligan, I will pray for you and sincerely hope you find your way.
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mulligan59
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savienu
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Alisa;5198083:
Mulligan, just wanted to point out that just because a woman is the heart of the home doesn’t mean we don’t think. Sure, some of us don’t. But neither do some men.
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Alisa
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I agree with you, Savienu. Most men and women think (and feel too, of course). I certainly am a well educated person, and over the years, I’ve given all these things lots of thought and talked with many people about issues like this. I thought CAF would be a good place to respectfully share ideas with other Catholics and to listen to their views.
I received a reprimand from a forum moderator a week or so ago. So may I ask why Mulligan was allowed to accuse me of being emblematic of why the 19th Amendment should be done away with – not to mention calling me “kind of cute in a feathery way” – or whatever he said, which sounded slightly perverted to me.
I attended a Latin rite Catholic church once a few years ago – just once to see if it would be similar to what I remembered pre-Vatican II. Are a lot of you contributors to this thread involved with that?
I was also really surprised to hear that some contributors reject Vatican II and Pope John.
I attend a mainstream Catholic church here in Oregon, and I haven’t met any Catholics here who are quite as rigid in their thinking as the ones I’ve “met” at CAF. I was wondering if I feel so alone in this forum because of the part of the country in which I live?? Maybe western Catholics are more open and liberal in their thinking? I’m trying to figure this out!
I once again want to stress that I and my family are anti-abortion, as most Catholics are. Does anybody know of a Catholic forum which would be less conservative than CAF? Maybe it’s time to quietly withdraw from this one and let you guys share like-minded ideas without my 2 cents’ worth!
Alisa
I received a reprimand from a forum moderator a week or so ago. So may I ask why Mulligan was allowed to accuse me of being emblematic of why the 19th Amendment should be done away with – not to mention calling me “kind of cute in a feathery way” – or whatever he said, which sounded slightly perverted to me.
I attended a Latin rite Catholic church once a few years ago – just once to see if it would be similar to what I remembered pre-Vatican II. Are a lot of you contributors to this thread involved with that?
I was also really surprised to hear that some contributors reject Vatican II and Pope John.
I attend a mainstream Catholic church here in Oregon, and I haven’t met any Catholics here who are quite as rigid in their thinking as the ones I’ve “met” at CAF. I was wondering if I feel so alone in this forum because of the part of the country in which I live?? Maybe western Catholics are more open and liberal in their thinking? I’m trying to figure this out!
I once again want to stress that I and my family are anti-abortion, as most Catholics are. Does anybody know of a Catholic forum which would be less conservative than CAF? Maybe it’s time to quietly withdraw from this one and let you guys share like-minded ideas without my 2 cents’ worth!
Alisa
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