Catholics, and why we don't go to "other churches"

[latingirl]

My personal reason why I don’t go to other churches is

1. because in alot of them there is anti-Catholic preaching and I see Scriptures being taken out of context to attack the Catholic Church. In these congregations it seems their religion is more about attacking Catholics than loving God.
2. It deeply saddens me that alot of non-Catholic Churches *excepting the Orthodox) don’t have the real, flesh-and-blood Eucharist. some of them don’t even believe Jesus is present in communion and they also reduce the rest of the sacraments to mere symbols.

Thus there are my two reasons, its annoying on one hand and on the other, heartbreaking.

 

[Nicea325]

My personal reason why I don’t go to other churches is

1. because in alot of them there is anti-Catholic preaching and I see Scriptures being taken out of context to attack the Catholic Church. In these congregations it seems their religion is more about attacking Catholics than loving God.
2. It deeply saddens me that alot of non-Catholic Churches *excepting the Orthodox) don’t have the real, flesh-and-blood Eucharist. some of them don’t even believe Jesus is present in communion and they also reduce the rest of the sacraments to mere symbols.

Thus there are my two reasons, its annoying on one hand and on the other, heartbreaking.

Here is another reason as well,if one is not careful well educated in the faith.

Here is what I once encountered by a young mother with her unbaptized child:

My child is confused about Jesus? I replied, " Confused how?" Mom…"Well after service this past Sunday, someone from the congregation told my son and I, Jesus is not God?

I said, “WHAT?” Who here told you Jesus is not God? Mom…“Oh the other church we at times go on Sunday.” I replied, “What other church do you attend and do you know the name.” Mom…“Oh yeah…it is called the Kingdom of Hall and people are really nice.”

I assuming you get the picture? No wonder mom and her child were confused. Bad…bad…practice!

 

[loko]

You’re aware that Pope Benedict worshipped in a Lutheran church a couple of years ago. It was not Mass, obviously, but he even gave a homily.

Then I would encourage you not to.

We are all the same, but we don’t worship or believe exactly the same.

This is factual error. The very nature of Christianity, the very central belief is that of the Trinity. By definition, as protestants are Christian, those who do not profess the Trinity are not Christian. They may have a belief in Jesus, and claim Him as savior, but they, by definition are not Christian.

And some Catholics believe these things, too. Recently, Rome has had to take steps to correct these errors, particularly with the promotion of female clergy. The LCMS stands with Rome on these issues. Why? because these beliefs are heterodox.

I would contend that our common profession of faith, using the 3 ancient creeds, is far far more than skin deep.

Jon

That is not what I am talking about, I can walk into a prot. church but I will not worship there. Surely you are not saying the Pope worshipped in a Lutheran church that is just as crazy as those who say he worshipped in a Mosque.

No, we are not all the same. I would respectfully disagree with you on that. Our similarities are only skin deep when you look deeper into the faiths.

It doesn’t matter whether some Catholics believe those things, unlike 10 different lutheran denominations we have one Catholic Church that teaches one Doctrine. If individual Catholics choose not to follow these teachings it is up to them,we are all responsible for our own Salvation. This doesn’t reflect on the Church’s Teachings which are universal and clear.

Believing in the same creeds and the trinity doesn’t mean that we are the same.

You do not believe in the authority of the CC, that it alone holds the keys to the kingdom.

You do not believe it is the original Church started by Christ.

You do not believe that the Pope is the Vicar of Christ and the earthly successor of Peter.

You do not believe the Magisterium alone teaches true Doctrine.

These are not minor differences. These are only a few differences.

Lets not kid ourselves that we are all the same Christian. These are KEY differences.

I engage with non-Catholics but I do not fool myself or them that we are the same Christian going to the same Christian church believing the same Christian Doctrines.

Sure there are one or two similarities, but that is where it ends.

 

[JonNC]

=loko;9309895]That is not what I am talking about, I can walk into a prot. church but I will not worship there. Surely you are not saying the Pope worshipped in a Lutheran church that is just as crazy as those who say he worshipped in a Mosque.

No, I don’t think its the same as a mosque.
I would say that he was a guest at a Lutheran Church, where they probably had scripture readings, hymns, homilies, and prayed. Certainly not a Mass, but worship of the Christ we both believe in, nonetheless.

No, we are not all the same. I would respectfully disagree with you on that. Our similarities are only skin deep when you look deeper into the faiths.

On this we will differ.

It doesn’t matter whether some Catholics believe those things, unlike 10 different lutheran denominations we have one Catholic Church that teaches one Doctrine. If individual Catholics choose not to follow these teachings it is up to them,we are all responsible for our own Salvation. This doesn’t reflect on the Church’s Teachings which are universal and clear.

Yes, our polity is different, isn’t it. But if there is a Lutheran synod that swerves off of the confessions, then they like some Catholics are veering from our one doctrine.

Believing in the same creeds and the trinity doesn’t mean that we are the same.

So, for you it is all or nothing. That’s the approach of both of our communions for 450 years, and it brought us no closer.

You do not believe in the authority of the CC, that it alone holds the keys to the kingdom.

I believe that authority belongs to the Church.

You do not believe it is the original Church started by Christ.

Certainly a major part of it.

You do not believe that the Pope is the Vicar of Christ and the earthly successor of Peter.

Ecclesiology is my main stumbling block with Rome, yes.

You do not believe the Magisterium alone teaches true Doctrine

Most of it is true. On most of it we agree.

These are not minor differences. These are only a few differences.

Well, yeah, we have differences, don’t we?

Lets not kid ourselves that we are all the same Christian. These are KEY differences.

We all preach Christ crucified. The history of the last 60 years since Vatican II is the desire to find those things we agree on, and build on that foundation to overcome what we don’t agree on, with the help of the Holy Spirit. Fortunately, Rme doesn’t consider a Lutheran church no different than a mosque.

I engage with non-Catholics but I do not fool myself or them that we are the same Christian going to the same Christian church believing the same Christian Doctrines

Now, you know, the one person who made that claim I disagreed with. If we all preach Christ crucified, confess the same creeds, accept the same early councils, there is a level of sameness between us. Not complete unity, but sameness. You can deny it all you want, but its there.

Sure there are one or two similarities, but that is where it ends.

Yeah, one or two.
Jon

 

[loko]

No, I don’t think its the same as a mosque.
I would say that he was a guest at a Lutheran Church, where they probably had scripture readings, hymns, homilies, and prayed. Certainly not a Mass, but worship of the Christ we both believe in, nonetheless.

On this we will differ.

Yes, our polity is different, isn’t it. But if there is a Lutheran synod that swerves off of the confessions, then they like some Catholics are veering from our one doctrine.

So, for you it is all or nothing. That’s the approach of both of our communions for 450 years, and it brought us no closer.

I believe that authority belongs to the Church.

Certainly a major part of it.

Ecclesiology is my main stumbling block with Rome, yes.

Most of it is true. On most of it we agree.

Well, yeah, we have differences, don’t we?

We all preach Christ crucified. The history of the last 60 years since Vatican II is the desire to find those things we agree on, and build on that foundation to overcome what we don’t agree on, with the help of the Holy Spirit. Fortunately, Rme doesn’t consider a Lutheran church no different than a mosque.

Now, you know, the one person who made that claim I disagreed with. If we all preach Christ crucified, confess the same creeds, accept the same early councils, there is a level of sameness between us. Not complete unity, but sameness. You can deny it all you want, but its there.

Yeah, one or two.
Jon

Those similarities mean zilch without authority.

We are not the same as much as you would like to have us believe.

You cherry pick some doctrine similarities in your argument and use that as the crux of your argument which is pretty flimsy.

When you say you believe the authority lies with the Church, which Church exactly are you talking about? The Lutheran ‘church’, the Catholic Church or the body of believers?

If you don’t believe in the authority of the CC then we are not the same.

The crux of the issue is authority. I don’t believe any other ‘church’ has the authority to formulate and preach Doctrine apart from the Catholic Church and EO. I believe the keys given to Peter were the symbol of authority.

Having said that it doesn’t prevent me from having solid relationships with non-Catholics, I just choose to form those relationships based on truths some of that truth is similar some of it is different. I don’t pretend that we are all the same.

 

[JonNC]

=loko;9310155]So you are looking at one or two similarities and saying we are the same.

We are not the same as much as you would like to have us believe.

You cherry pick some doctrine similarities in your argument and use that as the crux of your argument which is pretty flimsy.

When you say you believe the authority lies with the Church, which Church exactly are you talking about? The Lutheran ‘church’, the Catholic Church or the body of believers?

Well, I can see where you’re coming from. Placing the word Church after Lutheran using lower case and then in quotes is a disrespect I don’t usually find at CAF.

Jon

 

[loko]

Well, I can see where you’re coming from. Placing the word Church after Lutheran using lower case and then in quotes is a disrespect I don’t usually find at CAF.

Jon

Well strictly speaking, the Pope views the Lutheran ‘church’ as an ‘ecclesial community’. He would not refer to it as a ‘church’.

Which is more disrespectful in your opinion? I thought ‘church’ was more respectful.

I could refer to you as an ‘ecclesial community’ if your prefer.

Can you respond to my argument in the previous post or are you going to get sidetracked and emotional over language?

 

[Lochias]

~ahem~ That, too. Sorry; being single, that’s not something I always think about. Yes, of course, I agree.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I’ve been to an Orthodox parish and I would do it again given the opportunity.

 

[Nicea325]

Well strictly speaking, the Pope views the Lutheran ‘church’ as an ‘ecclesial community’. He would not refer to it as a ‘church’.

Which is more disrespectful in your opinion? I thought ‘church’ was more respectful.

I could refer to you as an ‘ecclesial community’ if your prefer.

Can you respond to my argument in the previous post or are you going to get sidetracked and emotional over language?

Take it easy my fellow Catholic. Jon is one of the most honest and respectful Lutherans here. Just show him some charity and he will respond kindly. Jon and I have had some great and deep discussions and we do not always agree. However,we do show each other respect when discussing our respective beliefs.

 

[loko]

Take it easy my fellow Catholic. Jon is one of the most honest and respectful Lutherans here. Just show him some charity and he will respond kindly. Jon and I have had some great and deep discussions and we do not always agree. However,we do show each other respect when discussing our respective beliefs.

I have shown him respect, he is the one getting upset because I chose to put the word church in brackets. Very immature in my opinion.

I could do as the Pope does and call Lutherans an ‘ecclesial community’.

I am being honest, I agree with the Pope that I do not view them as a Church in the strict sense. Do you want me to go against my faith just so we can be friends?

I don’t see how referring to his ecclesial community as a ‘church’ is being disrespectful, if that is disrespectful, then we can accuse the Pope of being disrespectful also.

 

[JonNC]

I have shown him respect, he is the one getting upset because I chose to put the word church in brackets. Very immature in my opinion.

I could do as the Pope does and call Lutherans an ‘ecclesial community’.

I am being honest, I agree with the Pope that I do not view them as a Church in the strict sense. Do you want me to go against my faith just so we can be friends?

I don’t see how referring to his ecclesial community as a ‘church’ is being disrespectful, if that is disrespectful, then we can accuse the Pope of being disrespectful also.

It isn’t a matter of what the pope does or doesn’t believe about our communion. It is about a proper name: “Lutheran Church”, “Catholic Church”, “Anglican Church”. Basic civil respect for each other. For example, even though many Catholic documents refer to your communion as “Roman Catholic Church”, I don’t use the term, or “RCC”, or “Roman Church”, and the like, because I know there are some who take offense to it, and prefer “Catholic Church”, and I respect their position on the term. For me, it is simple respect, and cordial civility.

Jon

 

[Cavaradossi]

I have shown him respect, he is the one getting upset because I chose to put the word church in brackets. Very immature in my opinion.

I could do as the Pope does and call Lutherans an ‘ecclesial community’.

I am being honest, I agree with the Pope that I do not view them as a Church in the strict sense. Do you want me to go against my faith just so we can be friends?

I don’t see how referring to his ecclesial community as a ‘church’ is being disrespectful, if that is disrespectful, then we can accuse the Pope of being disrespectful also.

Imagine if I referred to your Church as the ‘Catholic’ Church instead of simply the Catholic Church without scare quotes (because of course, the Orthodox believe firmly that we alone are the Catholic Church), and perhaps you’ll understand where Jon is coming from. Triumphalism is generally not a good way to maintain cordial relations with one’s correspondents. Your Church calls itself the Catholic Church and by common convention is known by that name, and so out of respect and a desire not to offend others I call it by that name, even though I personally might disagree, and make my disagreement known when appropriate.

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

Stop the bickering and return to the subject

 

[TimeisnearJEN]

they may have meant why don’t Catholics join in with communion in other churches when they are visiting guests etc?

I know in my church (anglican) at communion the priest will invite people to come forward to communion if they have been confirmed in their own church. If they haven’t 'yesterday he added to place their hands over their chest then he will know-where as usually just carry a leaflet-perhaps he knew we’d run out of leaftlets as had big baptism on)

Knowing that Catholics would not receive communion in an anglican church I have no idea what priests mean if you are confirmed in your own church you can recieve communion here. Is he inviting Catholics to - if they choose to as well as any other denomination. It dont really matter since I know we do accept Catholics receiving in our church its just that the Catholic Church teaches Catholics not to just a point of interest. At my confirmation class in 1985 I was told that we can receive communion anywhere including Catholic Churches but Roman Catholics don’t like us to unless we get permission from the priest at the time. It may be this that the nurses were talking about as such.

I know the theology as such but why is it such a hard and fast rule that Catholics are taught not to receive communion elsewhere when we all worship the same God and all are Christian? Seems odd way forward to me to bringing about The Lords Family.

I am new in my faith and I never heard of Anglican church? Can you tell me please what it is?

 

[Cavaradossi]

I am new in my faith and I never heard of Anglican church? Can you tell me please what it is?

The Anglican Church broke away from the Catholic Church in 1534. In America, they are known as the Episcopal Church.

 

[JonNC]

Deleted.

Jon

 

[vsedriver]

I think everyone prefers a church that’s closer to what they personally believe.

And that’s so sad. I prefer a church that teaches the Truth.

 

[Piwowar]

I was in school, in the nurse’s office. When two nurses were talking. Religion came up. One nurse Protestant and the other was Catholic. I think the Catholic one said she had to drive to the nearest Catholic Church (not that far, but she made it seem like it) as opposed just walking up the street to nearest Baptist Church, just a block from my school.

The Protestant nurse said “I don’t understand why Catholic don’t just go to the Baptist Church”

I don’t even know how to respond. What’s everyone else’s take on this?

 

[Piwowar]

Piwowar:
Roman Catholics do attend other demoninational churches. My wife is a practicing Lutheran Missouri Synod and there are times I attend her service. She also attends my Roman Catholic Church Mass.