Catholics are always right

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benjie

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Hi-im not too sure where to put this so ill try here-I quote the father of Mel Gibson as saying" the good thing about being a Catholic is that your always right" and this kind of troubles me. Ive just had a ‘discussion’ with my spiritual director about the fact that babies dont go to heaven if they are not baptised yet, due to original sin, even though the perpitrators of that sin are in Heaven due to Christ’s ultimate sacrifice on the cross. This and other aspects of Catholicism i find hard to accept, but accept them i must, for fear of being a non-conformist. I am begining to fear mentioning anything in public, asking any questions or thinking anything for fear of sinning or retribution from my peers. I want to love Jesus, I want him to be my freind but it seems so ’ jesus loves you…as long as you…’.I live with a group of traditionalist Catholics and, being new at this find so much confusing and hard to believe-some things have to be believed without question-other ‘novus ordo’ things are ‘false’ and must be rejected even though they may be from Priests or even the Holy Father. The path to heaven seems so narrow from where im crawling that I fear ill never stay on it. If Jesus loves us all, why is he going to purge the world in the chastisment? he says do not fear but I live each day scared out of my whits and increasingly silent an ostricised.
 
I’m afraid you are not getting real Catholic teaching but what the traditionalists you are living with say it is. If you are a minor, I feel for you, especially if it is your own parents who are giving you such bad information.

For instance, the real Catholic Church does NOT teach that unbaptized babies go to hell. The real Catholic Church does not judge anyone’s soul–not even that of Judas. And they are wrong about the Mass of Paul VI, too.

If you can, go to a regular Catholic parish and talk to a priest there about this whole thing. He’ll be more than happy to help you with all your questions. I will be praying for you, please pray for me, too!
 
the Catholic church does not teach that unbaptized babies go to hell. but its just better for them to baptized though.
 
(Edited statement that is not in evidence)

People these days! :tsktsk:
 
“Come to me all you who are weary and you will find rest for my yoke is easy and my burden light.”
  • Jesus.
The best thing you can do is to continue to desire a friendship with Jesus and to learn every day more clearly who he is and who he isn’t.

Being Catholic means you are always right?

sort of , kind of like saying “Jesus is Lord” is always true but if the way a person live doesn’t reflect that truth then saying it doesn’t really benefit a person.

Listen to the gospel, hear the parables and teachings over and over and pray for clear understanding. Let God rule in your life -not the people who feel they understand who God is but are really far from Him.

I am making some worst case assumptions in saying these things but it sounds like you are facing some challenges in all this.

Good luck

peace

-Jim
 
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silverwings_88:
Thank God that Mel Gibson is not representative of the Catholic Church as an institution and that he is not within the Church.

People these days! :tsktsk:
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I thought that Mel Gibson is a Catholic and so is within the Church. I understood its his father and not Mel who has the extreme views.
 
(Edited to keep thread on topic) I dont want to include a public figure in this argument as i think that mr Gibson has had enough flack for doing something ultimately commendable in his film “the Passion of Christ”-Thanks for your advice, it seems I must find other ways of growing closer to Jesus in a foreign land-or I must return to England to see if I can find enlightenment there-I am told im being tested, which i dont understand-I would never want to test my freinds to see if they loved me as if that was the case I dont think they would be freinds for long.
 
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silverwings_88:
Thank God that Mel Gibson is not representative of the Catholic Church as an institution and that he is not within the Church.

People these days! :tsktsk:
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But if he is refering to the Church’s teachings and doctrines he is absolutely correct in his statement.
 
benjie said:
(Edited to keep thread on topic) I dont want to include a public figure in this argument as i think that mr Gibson has had enough flack for doing something ultimately commendable in his film “the Passion of Christ”-Thanks for your advice, it seems I must find other ways of growing closer to Jesus in a foreign land-or I must return to England to see if I can find enlightenment there-I am told im being tested, which i dont understand-I would never want to test my freinds to see if they loved me as if that was the case I dont think they would be freinds for long.
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If I may ask, which country are you in at present?
 
I think the Catholic Church is always right in what it has defined in terms of faith and doctines. But it is not always as specific as many like to think, e.g as in what it says about the fate of unbaptised children as mentioned above. Another example is what it says in the catechism about purgatory - very restrained compared to what some catholics say about purgatory.

This is why doctrines aften took a long time for a final, infallible definition was made. The Church takes time to discern these things and allows theologians to speculate within limits.

Sometimes these theological speculations become seen as official Church teaching when they are not - as in the case of unbaptised babies and limbo.
 
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thistle:
I thought that Mel Gibson is a Catholic and so is within the Church. I understood its his father and not Mel who has the extreme views.
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Isn’t he a lefevrist (or whatever the correct spelling is) ?
 
The CC is a truth telling thing. It is its job whether popular or not. Being the ‘deposit of faith’, it was set up as that. So, let’s not take the worldly approach and say the CC has a monopoly of truth…but rather, it’s been granted this responisibility to tell the truth in every age and that it is burdened and graced to do so.

in XT.
 
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AquinasXVI:
The CC is a truth telling thing. It is its job whether popular or not. Being the ‘deposit of faith’, it was set up as that. So, let’s not take the worldly approach and say the CC has a monopoly of truth…but rather, it’s been granted this responisibility to tell the truth in every age and that it is burdened and graced to do so.

in XT.
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Reading the original post of this thread, and reading this response, I feel the following clarification should be made. The job of the Catholic Church, of anyone who follows Jesus, is to bear witness to the truth. Living witness. That does include the use of words but it is our actions that will have greater impact on those around us and it is our actions that will show whether or not we are truly God’s Children.

Benjie-

Look carefully at Jesus’s example. Make that your greatest teacher. If you are afraid of speaking up, don’t. Let your actions speak for you. If you are truly in danger of retribution from your peers for asking questions about your faith then I doubt very much if they understand the truth of the Catholic faith.

peace

-Jim
 
Please remain on topic and deal with Benjie’s questions and issues and not personalities/celebrities.

I recommend citing good & accurate sources of teaching and information that will assist in his assurance.

To Benjie:
WELCOME!

Your spiritual director (which you are not required to have by the church, BTW) is making statements that are not/have not ever been official church teaching.

The fate of unbaptized infants who die cannot be known by the living and so, just as the church teaches about those who take their own lives we can know that the love and mercy of God is trustworthy and so entrust their fate to God with confidence.

I would recommend that you secure a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church and read it carefully and prayerfully, as well as the New Testament…

God bless you,
Michael Francis
 
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benjie:
Hi-im not too sure where to put this so ill try here-I quote the father of Mel Gibson as saying" the good thing about being a Catholic is that your always right" and this kind of troubles me. QUOTE]

That is troubles you shows the quality of person that you are and it speaks well of you. It bothers you because it is rank triumphalism. The Church cannot err in matters of faith and morals and She, as the Bride of Christ, is impeccable in Her Person and infallible in the office of Peter and the Bishops in union with Christ’s Vicar. All of that is true, BUT…members of the Church, from the pope down to the lowliest lay member, can err in policy and personal behavior. Also, the charism of infallibility and the impeccabillity of the Church is ENTIRELY by the GRACE of God, His unmerited favor toward us, and that is nothing that we can brag about. We should be humbly grateful that He deigns to notice us at all. The fact that He genuinely loves us, enough to come Himself in the Second Personal of the Most Holy Trinity and suffer death for us, should be enough to render us speechless, so we ought at least not brag.
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benjie:
Thanks for your advice, it seems I must find other ways of growing closer to Jesus in a foreign land-or I must return to England to see if I can find enlightenment there-I am told im being tested, which i dont understand-I would never want to test my freinds to see if they loved me as if that was the case I dont think they would be freinds for long.
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I cannot say if a return to England would help you or not since I don’t know enough about your situation. But, as to being tested, I think you misunderstand what that means (and maybe those telling you you are being tested might misunderstand too). Being tested doesn’t mean that God sets up a task for you to do and then sits back like a scientist to see how you perform.

What it means is that we don’t always know why God allows things we see as negative happen to us. When we don’t understand, we simply trust God and soldier on. That has been my own position for quite some time because my husband has been unemployed and looking for work for a long time. It could be said to be a test, but not of God testing me, but of me testing my own faith in God.

God never changes. He always loves us and is more constant than the Northern Star. It is we who change and learn and grow, and one of the ways we do that is by going through hard times and learning from the experience. I hope that helps you. Be assured of my prayers, please pray for me.
 
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JKirkLVNV:
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benjie:
Hi-im not too sure where to put this so ill try here-I quote the father of Mel Gibson as saying" the good thing about being a Catholic is that your always right" and this kind of troubles me.
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QUOTE]

That is troubles you shows the quality of person that you are and it speaks well of you. It bothers you because it is rank triumphalism. The Church cannot err in matters of faith and morals and She, as the Bride of Christ, is impeccable in Her Person and infallible in the office of Peter and the Bishops in union with Christ’s Vicar. All of that is true, BUT…members of the Church, from the pope down to the lowliest lay member, can err in policy and personal behavior. Also, the charism of infallibility and the impeccabillity of the Church is ENTIRELY by the GRACE of God, His unmerited favor toward us, and that is nothing that we can brag about. We should be humbly grateful that He deigns to notice us at all. The fact that He genuinely loves us, enough to come Himself in the Second Personal of the Most Holy Trinity and suffer death for us, should be enough to render us speechless, so we ought at least not brag.

Very well put!
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thank you all for your advice-this forum has been a great help in at least getting positive feedback that doesnt frighten me! I think the new year will be the time to decide wether to stay or go-I hope our Blessed Mother will help my decision-thankyou again
 
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