Catholics ARE "Christians"; so why aren't all Christians Catholic?

[alwayswill]

Obviously I believe in Infant Baptism. It’s not about defining a term, then.

What if you had wanted to keep your Infant Baptism? Was that not an option for the Communion you entered? Would they have demanded you reject your Infant Baptism?

membership into my church requires a believer’s baptism by immersion. (anywhere, not just our church)

Attendance and serving (in a limited capacity) does not require a believer’s baptism by immersion.

I completely agree that is the correct stance.

 

[rcwitness]

I had been Baptized as an infant in the Anglican church…I had left the church as a young teenager and had not been to church until in my 30’s…I then had what is called a “born again” experience in a Pentecostal church…I had been Baptized again by full immersion…I can’t recall if they didn’t see my infant Baptism as valid…but they did consider full immersion as what was practiced by the early Christians…of course at the time I had no knowledge if my infant Baptism was valid or not…when becoming Catholic… the Catholic church did see my infant Baptism as valid…I’m not sure about the Baptism by immersion in the Pentecostal church as I never had any certificate so I used my certificate from my infant Baptism in the Anglican church…I think the Catholic church would see a full immersion Baptism in a Pentecostal…or any Protestant church as valid as long as it was done in “the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit”…now of course being properly catechized in the Catholic faith I know that my infant Baptism was entirely valid so I now believe that at the time I did not need to be “re Baptized”.

Thanks. My question was specifically about alwayswill’s Community. I am curious if they would demand a “rejection of one’s Infant Baptism” or if one could keep it, if they so desired. If alwayswill said, “I don’t want to be Baptized again”, would they allow Him to become a member and partake of their Communion?

 

[Tommy999]

This is a two part question:

1. D you believe {why or why not} that Catholics are Christians?
2. Catholics ARE Christians, so why aren’t all Christians Catholics?

God Bless you

Patrick

1. Yes. In many ways, I view Catholicism like an uncle or big brother in the Christian faith.

For example, even though I am not Catholic, I like watching Christmas Eve Midnight Mass from Rome on TV and do not consider my Christmas complete without it.

1. One main reason is because many non-Catholic Christians are born into their current faith tradition, just as many Catholics are born into theirs. In many Protestant households, their faith tradition has been handed down over the centuries and we are born and raised in them, just like Catholics are in theirs.

While it is true that some people convert to Catholicism and vice versa, I think most people tend to stay in the faith tradition in which they were born and raised unless they feel compelled to change.

 

[rcwitness]

membership into my church requires a believer’s baptism by immersion. (anywhere, not just our church)

Attendance and serving (in a limited capacity) does not require a believer’s baptism by immersion.

I completely agree that is the correct stance.

Thanks for answering. I am not so against the practice of believer’s Baptism, but I am firmly opposed to re-Baptism (i realize they are kind of hand in hand) and especially demanding that someone rejects their Infant Baptism.

 

[PJM]

most Catholics are Christians : some Catholics are atheists

books.google.com/books?id=JKgZEjvB5cEC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

" once a Catholic by baptism or reception one remain always remains a Catholic…Even those who have joined other religions, have become atheists or agnostics have been excommunicated remains Catholics."
-New commentary on the Code of Canon Law> page 63

read what Jimmy Akin says here
jimmyakin.org/2009/12/once-a-catholic-.html
As of the time the motu proprio goes into effect, therefore, anybody who has ever been a Catholic (even if they were baptized one as an infant and then raised something else) must follow the same marriage laws as those who consider themselves Catholic or their marriages will be invalid.

It brings to mind the old saying, “Once a Catholic, always a Catholic.” I’m not sure what people always had in mind by this saying–whether they were saying that Catholic culture runs deep in the soul, even if one joins another church; whether they were asserting that it is impossible to truly leave the Church; or whether they were asserting something else.

Whatever was meant, though, and whatever nuances have been introduced theologically about kinds or degrees of ecclesial communion, **going forward everybody who has ever been Catholic will be juridically Catholic, attempts at formal defection or no.
**

wdtprs.com/blog/2011/03/quaeritur-defection-from-the-catholic-church/

Since Omnium in mentem took effect on 9 April 2010, defection from the faith no longer has any canonical effect. “Defection” does not release one from ecclesiastical law, including the observance of canonical form in marriage.
Once a Catholic, always a Catholic is not just cultural, or emotional… it is juridical. Baptism to death, friends.

---

OK:shrug:

And your point is?

With over one Billion Catholics world wide, this ought not be too surprising in today’s secular world.

GOD will, because God MUST pass Judgment on each of us based NOT our what WE choose to accept and belief; BUT on what He has made possible for us to accept, live and believe.

Heb. 6: 4-8
" [4] For it is impossible for those who were once illuminated,[CATHOLIC BAPTISM] have tasted also the heavenly gift[JESUS HIMSELF IN CATHOLIC HOLY COMMUNION], and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost[CONFIRMED IN THE CATHOLIC FAITH] [5] Have moreover tasted the good word of God,[TAUGHT THE CATHOLIC FAITH] and the powers of the world to come,

Explanation from the DOUAY Bible
[4] It is impossible: The meaning is, that it is impossible for such as have fallen after baptism, to be again baptized; and very hard for such as have apostatized from the faith, after having received many graces, to return again to the happy state from which they fell.

[6] And are fallen away: to be renewed again to penance,[GOD’S WAY FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS] crucifying again to themselves the Son of God, and making him a mockery. [7] For the earth that drinketh in the rain which cometh often upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is tilled, receiveth blessing from God. [8] But that which bringeth forth thorns and briers, is reprobate, and very near unto a curse, whose end is to be burnt

Thank you for sharing

GBY

Patrick

 

[PJM]

Yes, that means they do not need to be re-baptized or re-confirmed if they wish to Reconcile with God. They need only to confess their sins and repent to hear the Word of Absolution.

AMEN!

 

[PJM]

“.Even those who have joined other religions, have become atheists or agnostics have been excommunicated remains Catholics.”"

so are there Catholic atheists?

Your final question is self-contradictory:shrug:

God Bless you friend

 

[PJM]

the OP asks “…, so why aren’t all Christians Catholics?”

As it is possible for there to be atheist Catholic
and it is impossible for there to be such a thing as an atheist Christian

could that be the reason that not all Christians are Catholic?
**
I only want to make the point that** when someone starts a post like this, without first defining the terms nearly all responses are valid.

just look at the previous posts: nearly everyone is using a different definition of Catholic and Christian

OK

I’m the OP

It is NOT possible for a Catholic or a Christian IF, IF they are living their faith to be atheist. Such is an impossibility

Could one be a C or C in name only with atheistic tendencies: perhaps?

From Fr. Hardon’s Catholic Dictionary

CATHOLICISM. The faith, ritual, and morals of the Roman Catholic Church as a historical reality, revealed in Jesus Christ and destined to endure until the end of time. It comprehends all that the Church teaches must be believed and lived out in order to be saved and, beyond salvation, in order to be sanctified. This system of doctrine, cultus, and practice is called Catholic (universal) because it is intended for all mankind, for all time, contains all that is necessary, and is suitable in every circumstance of human life.

CHRISTIAN. A person who is baptized. A professed Christian also believes in the essentials of the Christian faith, notably in the Apostles’ Creed. A Catholic Christian further accepts the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church, participates in the Eucharistic liturgy and sacraments of Catholic Christianity, and gives allegiance to the Catholic hierarchy and especially to the Bishop of Rome.

ATHEISM. Denial of a personal God who is totally distinct from the world he created. Modern atheism has become so varied and widespread that the Second Vatican council identified no less than eight forms of disbelief under the single term atheismus: “Some people expressly deny the existence of God. Others maintain that man cannot make any assertion whatsoever about Him. Still others admit only such methods of investigation as would make it seem quite meaningless to ask questions about God. Many, trespassing beyond the boundaries of the positive sciences, either contend that everything can be explained by the reasoning process used in such sciences, or, on the contrary, hold that there is no such thing as absolute truth. With others it is their exaggerated idea of man that causes their faith to languish; they are more prone, it would seem, to affirm man than to deny God. Yet others have such a faulty notion of God that when they disown this product of the imagination their denial has no reference to the God of the Gospels. There are also those who never enquire about God; religion never seems to trouble or interest them at all, nor do they try to see why they should bother about it” (Church in the Modern World, I, 19). In the light of this array of infidelity, it was only logical for the Council to declare that atheism is one of the greatest problems facing mankind in the world today. (Etym. Greek atheos, denying the gods, without a god.)

GBY

 

[PJM]

Because many Christians do not think that the use of the pill or other method of artificial birth control pill by married couples is always gravely wrong. Take for example a married couple having financial difficulties, and with many children to support.

OK, GOOD POINT

What DOES GOD say and how will GOD judge such actions?

Genesis 4:1 The man had intercourse with his wife Eve, and she conceived and gave birth to Cain. ‘I have acquired a man with the help of Yahweh,’ she said.

Birth is Controlled by God

John.1 Verses 12 to 14: “But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God; who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. “

Romans 1: 26-32 “For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a base mind and to improper conduct. They were filled with all manner of wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice. Full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity, they are gossips,
Though they know God’s decree that those who do such things deserve to die, they not only do them but approve those who practice them.”

Eph.5: “Be sure of this, that no fornicator or impure man, or one who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.”

Rev.22: 15 “Outside [in hell] are the dogs and sorcerers and fornicators and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.”

Gen. 1:28 “And God blessed them, [Adam and Eve] and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth.”

THIS MESSAGE OF BE FRUITFUL & MULTIPLE APPEARS ABOUT 30 TIMES IN THE BOOK OF GENESIS [mean s “Life”]

ONAN
**Gen.38: 6-10 **“And Judah took a wife for Er his first-born, and her name was Tamar. But Er, Judah’s first-born, was wicked in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD slew him. Then Judah [the Father of both sons] said to Onan, “Go in to your brother’s wife, and perform the duty of a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother.” But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother’s wife he spilled the semen on the ground, lest he should give offspring to his brother. **And what he did was displeasing in the sight of the LORD, and he slew him also” ** MEANING GOD KILLED HIM BOTH PHYSICALLY AND SPIRITUALLY [condemned to ETERNAL Hell!]

**So here’s the question to be asked:

Why did GOD give women a fertile period, and a non-fertile-period, If, IF He din’t expect it to be utilized?**

Is GOD in charge of your life?

Pray about it

GBY

Patrick

 

[PJM]

That’s a biggie, huh?

PLEASE READ MY POST #211:thumbsup:

GBY

 

[PJM]

Yes Catholics are Christians

If you are meaning logically, number 2 makes no sense and is seriously wrong. A dog has 4 legs, a tiger has 4 legs, therefore a tiger is a dog.

If you mean why dont people choose to be Catholic if they believe they are Christian, then there is many different reasons

OK {i’m the OP]

Such as

Thank you and GBY

 

[PJM]

I had been Baptized as an infant in the Anglican church…I had left the church as a young teenager and had not been to church until in my 30’s…I then had what is called a “born again” experience in a Pentecostal church…I had been Baptized again by full immersion…I can’t recall if they didn’t see my infant Baptism as valid…but they did consider full immersion as what was practiced by the early Christians…of course at the time I had no knowledge if my infant Baptism was valid or not…when becoming Catholic… the Catholic church did see my infant Baptism as valid…I’m not sure about the Baptism by immersion in the Pentecostal church as I never had any certificate so I used my certificate from my infant Baptism in the Anglican church…I think the Catholic church would see a full immersion Baptism in a Pentecostal…or any Protestant church as valid as long as it was done in “the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit”…now of course being properly catechized in the Catholic faith I know that my infant Baptism was entirely valid so I now believe that at the time I did not need to be “re Baptized”.

THANKS for sharing:thumbsup:

The [actually ANY] second Baptism AFTER a VALID Christian Baptism is nullified; meaning it’s effects are NOT repeated.

Hence if one converts to the RCC and has no recall or evidence of a prior Baptism; the RCC Baptizes CONDITIOANLLY, wherein the effects ONLY take effect IF their was no prior VALID Christian Baptism.

GBY

Patrick

 

[PJM]

membership into my church requires a believer’s baptism by immersion. (anywhere, not just our church)

Attendance and serving (in a limited capacity) does not require a believer’s baptism by immersion.

I completely agree that is the correct stance.

I as a Catholic do not believe in your stance; BUT it is a matter of Practices NOT Doctrine in the RCC.

PRACTICES are changeable, while Doctrines are not

GBY

 

[PJM]

1. Yes. In many ways, I view Catholicism like an uncle or big brother in the Christian faith.

For example, even though I am not Catholic, I like watching Christmas Eve Midnight Mass from Rome on TV and do not consider my Christmas complete without it.

1. One main reason is because many non-Catholic Christians are born into their current faith tradition, just as many Catholics are born into theirs. In many Protestant households, their faith tradition has been handed down over the centuries and we are born and raised in them, just like Catholics are in theirs.

While it is true that some people convert to Catholicism and vice versa, I think most people tend to stay in the faith tradition in which they were born and raised unless they feel compelled to change.

Thank you Tommy; very insightful and thoughtful post:thumbsup:

GBY

 

[Peebo]

I think that any church…or sect…that doesn’t believe in infant Baptism does not consider it valid and would require a new convert to make a profession of faith as an adult to be accepted as a valid Baptism by full immersion…as I said in my previous post I would not have been “re-Baptized” if I had known my infant Baptism was entirely valid…the book of Acts says that whole household were Baptized…the early church practiced infant Baptism…it was an accepted sacrament of the church until after the Reformation when “some” churches decided to make their own interpretation on Baptism.

 

[Tommy999]

I think that any church…or sect…that doesn’t believe in infant Baptism does not consider it valid and would require a new convert to make a profession of faith as an adult to be accepted as a valid Baptism by full immersion…as I said in my previous post I would not have been “re-Baptized” if I had known my infant Baptism was entirely valid…the book of Acts says that whole household were Baptized…the early church practiced infant Baptism…it was an accepted sacrament of the church until after the Reformation when “some” churches decided to make their own interpretation on Baptism.

In many Protestant circles, infant baptism is accepted as a valid baptism. For example, mine does infant baptisms and considers them totally valid.

However, infant baptisms are considered for all practical purposes to be more of a proclamation of the parents that they will do their best to raise their baby in the Christian faith with the help of the congregation – somewhat of a spiritual circumcision or branding, if you will — realizing that the baby himself cannot make a faith proclamation at such an age and probably doesn’t even know what is going on when he is baptized.

How many people who were baptized as infants decide later in life to not even darken the door of a church? I’m afraid there are a lot of such folks.

On the other hand, those who undergo a “believer’s baptism”, willingly and knowingly submit themselves to be baptized like the multitudes did with John the Baptist down at the Jordan River in Jesus’ day.

Is Confirmation what Catholics do when they are of age and willingly decide of their own free will to follow Christ and belong to the Church? Perhaps that is a rough equivalent to a “believer’s baptism” but I am just guessing here.

 

[Wannano]

I think that any church…or sect…that doesn’t believe in infant Baptism does not consider it valid and would require a new convert to make a profession of faith as an adult to be accepted as a valid Baptism by full immersion…as I said in my previous post I would not have been “re-Baptized” if I had known my infant Baptism was entirely valid…the book of Acts says that whole household were Baptized…the early church practiced infant Baptism…it was an accepted sacrament of the church until after the Reformation when “some” churches decided to make their own interpretation on Baptism.

It would be so helpful if you could be specific rather than expouse and substantiate with sweeping generalizations.

Lend credence to your point by presenting at least one verse in the Bible that directly tells us that the New Testament church baptized babies before they reached the age of reason. Thanks.

 

[rcwitness]

Lend credence to your point by presenting at least one verse in the Bible that directly tells us that the New Testament church baptized babies before they reached the age of reason. Thanks.

There isn’t one. You know that. Just as there isn’t one that expresses that Infants are not to be Baptized. There has to be interpretation. A Bible alone (explicit reference) arguement is a wash (no pun intended ).

I could demand the same for the doctrine of Sola Scriptura. It’s not explicitly expressed. Some interpret Sola Scriptura as Biblical, while others rely on Tradition not in Scripture to for doctrine. We use Tradition to interpret Infant Baptism. Sola Scripture rejects Tradition to assert Believers Baptism.

 

[Herculees]

This is a two part question:

1. D you believe {why or why not} that Catholics are Christians?
2. Catholics ARE Christians, so why aren’t all Christians Catholics?

God Bless you

Patrick

All Catholics are Christians, however NOT all Christians are Catholic, because some non-Catholic Christians do not recognize Christ in the Eucharist. Some see the Eucharist as ONLY a symbol of Christ NOT the Christ. Also Non-Catholic Christians do NOT recognize the Pope as the head of the church. There are also other things that separate what non-Catholic Christians and Catholic Christians believe but the above I would say are the main two reasons.

 

[Bookcat]

Have been called Christians since the first century

First members of the Church were called “the disciples”… (See Acts)

Later called followers of “the way” …and it seems “Nazarenes” (see Acts)

then at Antioch we started being called Christians. (See Acts)

Later in the first century the Church started to be called “Catholic” (see St. Ignatius --again at Antioch --use around the year 100–Catholic Answers will have various things on this - he presupposes his audience will know the term so it was used already in the first century)

So in time Christians began to be also called Catholics.

Now a days we have many sorts of Christians --who are indeed Christians and our brothers…whom we call Christians …though we are unhappily not yet in full communion.

Catholics are Christians who in full communion with the successor of Peter. We call ourselves Christians all the time…Pope Benedict XVI when addressing the faithful did not usually say “Catholics this or that” but called them Christians…for that is what we are (see his homilies or audiences)

Other Christians have various degrees of communion with us.

As one early Christian noted (375AD):

“If you want to know who I am,” he said, “Christian is my name, Catholic is my surname.”
~ St. Pacian

Those who are not in full communion with the Catholic Church are baptized Christians but they would not be called “Catholics” for they are not in full communion with the Catholic Church.