Catholics are Christians?

[teresas1979]

Originally posted by 1ke:
Please discontinue your attempts to be rude to those who come to this forum asking honest questions and seeking the Truth. Calling them names does not do much to motivate them to convert. Had I met you, I may have been turned off to the Catohlic Church before even beginning to investigate it and may not have chosen to convert in 1992.

Don’t let your bad attitude and rudeness become an impediment to other’s conversion-- because YOU will be accountable for that on judgment day.

I just had to congratulate and thank you for such a gentle way of pointing out how harmful this can be. I am a cradle Catholic (although lapsed in the strictest sense for nearly 10 years) and will probably never return because of such treatment amongst many other (personal) reasons. My boyfriend expressed an interest in Catholicism (he is an Anglican) when I decided I wanted to re-commit myself to Christ some time ago.

Then his cousin married a Catholic and because the cousin would not convert they decided to marry in a CofE church rather than be hypocrites. Most of the Catholic brides family refused to attend such a wedding or even discuss the possiblity so the couple
ended up getting married overseas. I believe she now has left the Catholic Church because of her family’s reaction to her marriage to a non Catholic christian.

My boyfriend has now been put off even seeking Catholicism and I agree with his reasons. There are many within the Catholic Church (including the higher echelons) who are not interested in promoting the love of the Lord, merely Catholicism’s claims as the only christian church. Until Catholicism accepts that whether or not Christ set up her Church she must accept the good in others too, there is no hope for reverts/converts to the faith.

 

[RedDeathsMask]

jimmy:

Nuns and monks are all Catholic. They are monastic groups within the Catholic Church that praise God and help the poor and others. They live extremely holy lives.

The Eastern Orthodox Church also has Nuns and Monks. The Anglican church has also revived vowed religious orders. There are Anglican nuns now.

 

[Stephen_Korsman]

Shinobu:

It’s not uncommon. For example, I was born a Christian, but as I grew up I became interested in becoming a nun. It’s not that I didn’t want to become a Catholic it’s just that being a Christian was all I knew. It might all sound dumb or silly and I’m sorry. I’ve been trying to teach myself more about Catholicism so I’m not so ignorant.

Not only Catholics have nuns. I think The Orthodox do, the Anglicans do - they used to have a convent down the road from where I grew up - and I think Lutherans do as well.

God bless,
Stephen

 

[Ani_Ibi]

teresas1979:

I am a cradle Catholic (although lapsed in the strictest sense for nearly 10 years) and will probably never return because of such treatment amongst many other (personal) reasons.

Just for clarity, then, are you ok with the identification ‘lapsed Catholic’?

teresas1979:

My boyfriend expressed an interest in Catholicism (he is an Anglican) when I decided I wanted to re-commit myself to Christ some time ago.

However, according to you, should your boyfriend decide to marry you, he will not convert and he will not permit your children to be raised Catholic. So, be honest now, that is the extent of your boyfriend’s interest.

teresas1979:

Then his cousin married a Catholic and because the cousin would not convert they decided to marry in a CofE church rather than be hypocrites.

And being unequally yoked in the face of advice concerning the enormous barriers and difficulties of inter-marriage is not hypocritical?

teresas1979:

Most of the Catholic brides family refused to attend such a wedding or even discuss the possiblity so the couple ended up getting married overseas. I believe she now has left the Catholic Church because of her family’s reaction to her marriage to a non Catholic christian.

I doubt that was the reason she left the Church. It looks more like a pretext than a reason.

teresas1979:

My boyfriend has now been put off even seeking Catholicism and I agree with his reasons.

So after thoroughly examining infallible Church teaching always and everywhere, your boyfriend made this decision? Or did he make this decision because he (fallibly) interpreted on his own usurped ‘authority’ the actions of some Catholics in a specific time and place, perhaps not even bothering to plumb their reasons (personal or religious, as the case may be)? Or is your boyfriend just easily put off?

teresas1979:

There are many within the Catholic Church (including the higher echelons) who are not interested in promoting the love of the Lord, merely Catholicism’s claims as the only christian church.

So what do the few or even the many have to do with the all? What do they have to do with Church teaching? What do they have to do with the millions of faithful, honest, and good Catholics who do promote the love of the Lord? What do they have to do with your boyfriend? What do they have to with you?

teresas1979:

Until Catholicism accepts that whether or not Christ set up her Church she must accept the good in others too, there is no hope for reverts/converts to the faith.

Speaking of individual Catholics is one thing. Making a general statement of Catholicism is another thing. Particularly when it is false. Pope John Paul II has spoken with enormous intelligence, love, and respect about the good in other denominations and in other faiths. Not only has he spoken, but he has acted, making phenomenal numbers of gestures of good will and friendship. Having made a claim which contradicts this reality, it is contingent upon you to inform yourself.

This is your claim: There is no hope for reverts/converts to the faith. This is the reality: There is always and constantly hope for reverts/converts to the faith. And this hope is conditional on nothing, least of all one individual’s wishful thinking that the faith, sacrifice, and contributions of millions upon millions of Catholics over the centuries is something which can be ignored at one’s whim or relanguaged and misrepresented at one’s convenience.

Here is another reality. Your boyfriend is not Catholic. That’s who he is. You can’t change him. It is the Holy Spirit which convicts and it is your boyfriend who responds to that conviction as he sees fit. As far as you and your boyfriend go, it ain’t complicated: what you see is what you get. So, do you have a vision for your relationship with your boyfriend? Standards? The Church can help you with that. Do you have long-term hopes and dreams for your relationship with your boyfriend? The Church can help you with that. Do you have a job description for your boyfriend? The Church can help you with that. Does this man fit your job description? The Church can help you with that. There are, in spite of the paucity of hope you hold out, many things the Church can do for you in your current situation and many things we can do for you on this board.

 

[teresas1979]

However, according to you, should your boyfriend decide to marry you, he will not convert and he will not permit your children to be raised Catholic. So, be honest now, that is the extent of your boyfriend’s interest

It is now but it wasn’t at the time. We are going back a while to when he sought Catholicism with a genuine desire to want to convert. It is subsequent events which have led to his refusal to convert. I was pointing out that the heretic comments as mentioned here are precisely what turn people away.

The reason why the children would not be raised Catholic is because the actions of those within Catholicism for us have spoken louder than any words which claim to hold official teaching. The Church is hypocritical to say it teaches one thing whilst doing another. The Church claims to want unity with other christians and then its members behave in a manner which suggests the opposite.

The bride in question I have discovered today is in fact still a member of the Catholic Church. She has found the strength from God to forgive those who called her marriage a sham and feels she belongs in Catholicism irrespective of those people. For myself, I pray all the time if I am meant to be in the Catholic Church.

I find some of your comments hurtful. Regardless of what the Church says it teaches, when the practise is clearly something else (and I am speaking of many parishes spread throughout England over the past 10 years) then the Church is hypocritical to allow so many Priests and Bishops to teach contrary to the Church.

It is this attitude that I said IMO needs to change before people can trust the Church. Saying it does one thing whilst clearly doing another is, to me, the highest level of hypocrisy.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

teresas: I wrote a reply to your post but it got lost and all I have had for the last few hours is a database error page. I’ll have to get back to it tomorrow after work. If I forget, please remind me. I sometimes come home from work braindead. Have a good evening.

 

[1ke]

teresas1979:

I am a cradle Catholic (although lapsed in the strictest sense for nearly 10 years) and will probably never return because of such treatment amongst many other (personal) reasons.

Until Catholicism accepts that whether or not Christ set up her Church she must accept the good in others too, there is no hope for reverts/converts to the faith.

While I understad what you are saying I must disagree in part. Catholicism certainly accepts the good in others and teaches rightly on the subject (as it does on all subjects).

Individual people might sin or be rude, like our wretched poster with his heretic comment, but the Church is right in her teaching from A to Z (or Alpha to Omega actually).

And, that particular affliction (rudeness, hurtful behavior, sin) is NOT in any way limited to the Catholic Church. Those people can be found in all faiths and all places because all humans are united in one thing: original sin.

So, while I understand that you, your boyfriend, and others may have been hurt by people** in ** the Church do not lose sight of the very important fact that the Church is Holy and it holds the Keys to the Kingdom. The Church does teach Truth and a wise man will cling to Her despite the fact that some of her members are NOT holy.

Because while a rude or hurtful person might have kept me from ever investigating the Church, no rude or hurtful person can ever make me leave now that I have found Her. Being true to God is more important than righteous indignation on my part. Besides, as Peter so eloquently said, to whom should I go?

So, never cut off your nose to spite your face. Ask God to help you to overcome the hurts that keep you from embracing the Church, the Sacraments, and the fullness of Truth.