Catholics are legalists by default?

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There are tithes, then there are offerings, in addition to tithes, in the Protestant church I left.
 
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That’s why I ended up leaving Catholicism and converting to Episcopalianism. I felt that the rules and structures were too rigid and people lost site of Jesus and God in them.

At least in my limited experience in Eastern Churches and my own Episcopalianism, the liturgy is beautiful and rich in tradition because we can do it to glorify God, the Catholic viewpoint is more like the liturgy is beautiful and rich in tradition in order to glorify God.

Again, just my opinion and experiences. I’m no expert!
 
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ATraveller said:
Do people who accuse others of “legalism” understand what it even means?
The Protestant traditions that bother looking at how Luther, Calvin and others used the term would see its describing the position salvation can be earned by works i.e. following the law rigidly to gain salvation and God’s favour.
Protestants emphasize salvation can’t be earned by our works. That is NOT to say works aren’t important. They are. Jesus saves and the believer responds with works.
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Catholic teaching is that salvation can’t be earned by our works either. A person cooperating with the given grace of God may receive a reward for works.

Catechism of the Catholic Church
2007 With regard to God, there is no strict right to any merit on the part of man. Between God and us there is an immeasurable inequality, for we have received everything from him, our Creator.

2008 The merit of man before God in the Christian life arises from the fact that God has freely chosen to associate man with the work of his grace. The fatherly action of God is first on his own initiative, and then follows man’s free acting through his collaboration, so that the merit of good works is to be attributed in the first place to the grace of God, then to the faithful. Man’s merit, moreover, itself is due to God, for his good actions proceed in Christ, from the predispositions and assistance given by the Holy Spirit.
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Council of Trent, Decree on Justification
CHAPTER VIII.

In what manner it is to be understood, that the impious is justified by faith, and gratuitously.

And whereas the Apostle saith, that man is justified by faith and freely, those words are to be understood in that sense which the perpetual consent of the Catholic Church hath held and expressed; to wit, that we are therefore said to be justified by faith, because faith is the beginning of human salvation, the foundation, and the root of all Justification; without which it is impossible to please God, and to come unto the fellowship of His sons: but we are therefore said to be justified freely, because that none of those things which precede justification-whether faith or works-merit the grace itself of justification. For, if it be a grace, it is not now by works, otherwise, as the same Apostle says, grace is no more grace.
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Council of Orange II (529 A.D.), Canons on grace, 19:
[G]race is preceded by no merits. A reward is due to good works, if they are performed, but grace, which is not due, precedes [good works], that they may be done”
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The one I was in, the pastor didn’t even like to talk about money, so it only came up when he got to part where it was mentioned in the bible (they would go through the bible over the course of about 2 years, iirc). And then he would say only what can you give, if you can give, and that 10% wasn’t a number set in stone one way or the other.
 
Just stating the facts. If the facts are against CAF rules, then may my account be suspended as quickly as possible.
 
Jen7 said:
My husband is a convert & assumes we would tithe as Catholics. It has been a topic of many many discussions for us & took me many years to come to being okay with a genuine “tithe.” I certainly didn’t grow up with that concept as a cradle Catholic!!
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There is no set amount, true. But neither is there anything wrong with ten percent as a practice.
Psychae said:
First Confession & First Communion have turned into a rite of passage (you’re a Big Kid now!) and Confirmation has also turned into a rite of passage (you’re an adult now/ you’re a mature Catholic / you’re fully Catholic) and this is ridiculous. The Sacraments are not rites of passage. They are the birthright of all Catholics.

The withholding of Sacraments until whatever certain age needs to stop. This needs to change at the systemic level.
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I don’t wish to be rude, and ask your patience if I’m blunt about this: but I see no way to say it that won’t seem blunt so here goes.

You’re not qualified to make that judgement, Psychae. We of the laity in general are not qualified to make that judgment. That’s for trained theologians and the Magisterium.
nearlycatholic said:
I’m feeling happy today; just moved into new house in new town!
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God bless you. 🙂
 
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Your opinions aren’t facts. That’s not what “fact” means.
 
I see there is an issue here on this forum… it’s not about me. It’s about the status quo not being questioned. Since when are Catholics not allowed to question?
 
Zaccheus said:
We of the laity in general are not qualified to make that judgment. That’s for trained theologians and the Magisterium.
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We the laity are part of the Magisterium. So many people have forgotten this fact. It’s the sensus fidelium.
 
This so so funny… a thread on “aren’t Catholics legalists by default”… I answer YES and provide some examples and my opinions… and my posts are flagged and removed and I’m threatened with suspension!! Y’all just proved the fact that Catholics are legalists by default! 😂
 
It’s important and good to avoid sin. But does God really care if you follow the rubrics letter for letter for say the sacraments, prayer, all these things with Canon law etc
 
rosejmj said:
It’s important and good to avoid sin. But does God really care if you follow the rubrics letter for letter for say the sacraments, prayer, all these things with Canon law etc
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To the best of your knowledge and ability, yes He does. We are responsible for what we know, what we could have known and what we are capable of doing.
rosejmj said:
But does God really care…?
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What does that sound like to you? Or rather, who does that sound like?
 
I tend to wish they would confirm as an infant as well. Oh, well. Ultimately there is this connection between the bishop and confirmation specifically, and not to baptism so much. So eventually it was the case that baptism and confirmation were split so the bishop could do it.

You can read what the Catechism has to say on that topic at around paragraph 1292 or a little before or after.
 
This debate has raged for centuries. Nothing generally gets resolved. No problem. All in God’s good time…I am satisfied to know what I don’t know.

I should also have posted the question from an apologetics perspective. What advice might you give a brother or sister whom you suspect of legalism or some form of it? Thank you.
 
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It’s interesting you mention that Confirmation and a bishop are connected. I was actually confirmed by my parish priest. He had a letter of permission from the local ordinary. So, actually, that’s another sort of “legal” thing that doesn’t need to be there. Every priest has the ability to Confirm. Usually the Bishop wants to do it himself, so he doesn’t give the Priests permission.

But they could.
 
All you have to do is look at some of the posts on Caf to know some Catholics are legalistic. Lots of, is this valid, what does Canon law say about xyz, what’s the proper way to do this, did I sin etc etc.
 
Psychae said:
Being a certain age, for one. Withholding the Sacraments from Catholics based on their age is ridiculous and dangerous. This is why so many kids / teens lose their Faith. If they had the graces of Confirmation from infancy the Church wouldn’t have such a huge problem with kids / teens / young adults losing their Faith and leaving the Church.
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Why do you think that the Roman Catholic Church wouldn’t have that problem when the Greek Orthodox Church does?
Here is someone in the Orthodox Church who wouldn’t accept your premise:

Exodus from Orthodoxy, Part I: Are Young Adults Leaving the Church (and What Can We Do About It)? - Greek Orthodox Archdiocese Blog - Orthodox Church

The first of a three-part series: Exodus from Orthodoxy.
blogs.goarch.org blogs.goarch.org
 
So it seems like the real issue here is that we’re human. Granted.
 
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