"Catholics are not Christians"

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drpmjhess

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Next month I will be giving a lecture on Catholic theology in light of the modern scientific worldview – particularly that of evolutionary biology – to a general audience that will include Catholics, Protestants, seculars and Young Earth Creationists. I wonder if anyone can tell me (with greater or less precision) when Protestant Fundamentalists first began to co-opt the term “Christian” so that it excluded Roman Catholics? I can’t count the number of times I’ve been told, “You’re not a Christian – you’re a Catholic!”
Thanks in advance,
Peter
 
I don’t have it in front of me, but if you have it (or the library should), Karl Keating’s book Catholicism & Fundamentalism talks about the origins of Fundamentalism somewhere in one of the early chapters. I think the modern pedigree came to life in the 1980s, but it has some roots a few years prior.

Maybe someone else has a copy handy and can find that.
 
drpmjhess said:
Next month I will be giving a lecture on Catholic theology in light of the modern scientific worldview – particularly that of evolutionary biology – to a general audience that will include Catholics, Protestants, seculars and Young Earth Creationists. I wonder if anyone can tell me (with greater or less precision) when Protestant Fundamentalists first began to co-opt the term “Christian” so that it excluded Roman Catholics? I can’t count the number of times I’ve been told, “You’re not a Christian – you’re a Catholic!”
Thanks in advance,
Peter
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Is there a connection between the intro of your post and the question?
 
Spirithound said:
Is there a connection between the intro of your post and the question?
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Yes, very much so. In a mixed audience I am likely to get (1) ignorant Protestants who reject what I have to say theologically because “a Catholic is not a Christian” (2) ignorant Catholics who reject what I have to say about evolution because they know nothing of how science works; and (3) ignorant atheists who reject anything I have to say about science or theology because a religious believer “cannot have anything valuable to say.”
 
drpmjhess said:
Next month I will be giving a lecture on Catholic theology in light of the modern scientific worldview – particularly that of evolutionary biology – to a general audience that will include Catholics, Protestants, seculars and Young Earth Creationists. I wonder if anyone can tell me (with greater or less precision) when Protestant Fundamentalists first began to co-opt the term “Christian” so that it excluded Roman Catholics? I can’t count the number of times I’ve been told, “You’re not a Christian – you’re a Catholic!”
Thanks in advance,
Peter
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Not able to cite the chapter and verse but I think it is somewhere in the Acts of the Apostles that goes something like:

"… It was at Antioch when they were first named as “Christians.”

It’s a no-brainer. Since the apostles were under the authority of St. Peter ever since Jesus gave him the authority then Antioch applies to those that were under the authority of St. Peter. They were called, “Christians.”
 
johnstown_johnn said:
Not able to cite the chapter and verse but I think it is somewhere in the Acts of the Apostles that goes something like:

"… It was at Antioch when they were first named as “Christians.”

It’s a no-brainer. Since the apostles were under the authority of St. Peter ever since Jesus gave him the authority then Antioch applies to those that were under the authority of St. Peter. They were called, “Christians.”
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That in Acts 11:26, but one thing that people seem to fail to notice is that it never says that it was something that believers called themselves. It actually says, “so that at Antioch the disciples were first named Christians.” I don’t think this is something that the early church called themselves and the writings of Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp, and the Didache bear that out, since they are the earliest verifiable documents from the church.
 
Church_Militant said:
That in Acts 11:26, but one thing that people seem to fail to notice is that it never says that it was something that believers called themselves. It actually says, “so that at Antioch the disciples were first named Christians.” I don’t think this is something that the early church called themselves and the writings of Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp, and the Didache bear that out, since they are the earliest verifiable documents from the church.
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**I fail to grasp the point. If others called them “Christians” does it make any difference ? So, Catholics are NOT Christians because others called them “Christians?” The Early Church used symbols such as the “fish” or the Cross.

So, centuries later Protestants call themselves “Christians” and that is their exclusive appellation eventhough Protestants did NOT exist in Antioch?

Am I missing something? Is this so esoteric that one has to be a cloistered monk to grasp? Or has to be a Protestant? Many protestants are Freemasons; is that an identifying sign of being a Christian?

Perhaps I should not have entered this thread–it is far too deep for one like myself. **
 
johnstown_johnn said:
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**I fail to grasp the point. If others called them “Christians” does it make any difference ? So, Catholics are NOT Christians because others called them “Christians?” The Early Church used symbols such as the “fish” or the Cross.

So, centuries later Protestants call themselves “Christians” and that is their exclusive appellation eventhough Protestants did NOT exist in Antioch?

Am I missing something? Is this so esoteric that one has to be a cloistered monk to grasp? Or has to be a Protestant? Many protestants are Freemasons; is that an identifying sign of being a Christian?

Perhaps I should not have entered this thread–it is far too deep for one like myself. **What are you so bent outta shape about?:confused: 🤷

My point is that if it’s not something that believers called themselves, and Catholic is, then I believe that Catholic is the proper name for the original New Testament believers.

The topic under discussion is the statement that Catholics are not Christians, and is as patently ludicrous an assertion as saying that n-Cs are not Christians, because in both cases, some are and some aren’t.

The fact is that most Catholics define themselves as Catholic because they (rightly) consider “Catholic” and “Christian” to be synonymous. Some n-Cs/a-Cs do not share that thinking, which makes communication complicated.
 
Church_Militant said:
What are you so bent outta shape about?:confused: 🤷

My point is that if it’s not something that believers called themselves, and Catholic is, then I believe that Catholic is the proper name for the original New Testament believers.

The topic under discussion is the statement that Catholics are not Christians, and is as patently ludicrous an assertion as saying that n-Cs are not Christians, because in both cases, some are and some aren’t.

The fact is that most Catholics define themselves as Catholic because they (rightly) consider “Catholic” and “Christian” to be synonymous. Some n-Cs/a-Cs do not share that thinking, which makes communication complicated.
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**So, it just comes down to: “What’s in a name!”

I’ve heard the remark by Protestants to myself personally (most of the time Baptists) that being Catholic makes us non-Christian. It never bothered me and truly doesn’t still.

Did not intend to sound bent out of shape…I use bold because I trace my own replies much more readily.

Actually, I have a deep sense of regret for Protestants of all stripes foremostly because they do NOT get to meet Jesus in person in this life as catholics are so fortunate in the Eucharist.

With that in mind: What’s in a name?**
 
johnstown_johnn said:
Actually, I have a deep sense of regret for Protestants of all stripes foremostly because they do NOT get to meet Jesus in person in this life as catholics are so fortunate in the Eucharist. ?
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That’s pretty arrogant. I know lots of very holy Protestants who have met Jesus “in person” as you say.
 
Church_Militant said:
Accuracy?

(P.S. You can easily trace your own posts by just clicking on your name and then “Find all posts by…”) 👍
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Click onto YOUR name and trace YOUR own posts and you may find an inconsistency here and there. I KNOW I have more than my share…how about YOU?
 
drpmjhess said:
That’s pretty arrogant. I know lots of very holy Protestants who have met Jesus “in person” as you say.
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No one receives Jesus in the Eucharist with arrogance only in deep humility. Do YOU know any of us that are contrary to humility?
 
The term Catholic just means Universal correct? But that still makes us Christians…Universal Christians and I would say the first and only Christians who follow the rules that Our Lord Jesus Christ laid out for us. I don’t know many others who follow his teachings like Catholic Christians.
 
Church_Militant said:
" I don’t think this is something that the early church called themselves and the writings of Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp, and the Didache bear that out, since they are the earliest verifiable documents from the church.
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The term “catholic church” was used for the first time to refer to the universal Christian community by Ignatius of Antioch (ca. 35–107) in his Letter to the Smyrneans.
 
johnstown_johnn said:
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**Click onto YOUR name and trace YOUR own posts and you may find an inconsistency here and there. I KNOW I have more than my share…how about YOU?**I have no idea what you are talking about. Seems to me you are arguing just for the sake of it. I’m done with your posts. 🤷
 
GoneFishin said:
The term Catholic just means Universal correct? But that still makes us Christians…Universal Christians and I would say the first and only Christians who follow the rules that Our Lord Jesus Christ laid out for us. I don’t know many others who follow his teachings like Catholic Christians.
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Orthodox Christians would no doubt disagree.
 
drpmjhess said:
The term “catholic church” was used for the first time to refer to the universal Christian community by Ignatius of Antioch (ca. 35–107) in his Letter to the Smyrneans.
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Exactly! And Acts 9:31 actually says ekklesia kath olos in the Greek text.
 
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