Catholics believe Jesus (PBWH) ordered the killing of idol worshipers.

[Steven_John]

Steven, I think you are VERY confused about Jesus. You could read the Gospels for yourself if you are allowed to have a Christian Bible and see what they say about Jesus. There is nothing in there about killing idol worshipers.

Your English does not seem to be strong. This can contribute to problems in communication in a forum like this.

Your advice is good, this is what i have done and dont see Jesus (PBWH) as God but truly see Him through Jesus (PBWH).

people have tried to explain to me how Jesus (PBWH) is God and i kind of get what they say, but it is far what what i read in the gospels.

i dont find where Jesus (PBWH) claims to be God the closest i come is him saying he is who he said he is, the son of man.

The nun that blerted Jesus is God is very special to me and i wanted to go further with her, but respecting her age and the tone of her voice thought i should leave it with her. I have come here because you all work together at helping people.

If she is right and God is all seeing all knowing Jesus (PBWH) instructed the killing of the people worshiping the shinny yellow cow.

In gratitude of your help and kindness

 

[Steven_John]

Many? who? you still have given no source for this ridiculous allegaton

If i gave you names you would not know them.

but its not totally silly hard to understand but.

They say Jesus (PBWH) and we are the body. if Jesus (PBWH) is to be the action here for God then the church would be the truth. But it still doent make him God.

Jesus (PBWH) is narated to have said no one is good but God.

 

[Steven_John]

Luke 19:27

Read the entire parable to get the full picture. It ends with, “But as for these mine enemies that would not have me be King over them, bring them hither and slay them in my presence”.

It was this passage that was used by medieval Christians to justify the killing of Jews and Muslims who refused to convert to Christianity.

I respect what you say but for me we are to slay with the truth, not the same as the killing in the old testament i referred to.

 

[Steven_John]

this as a command to kill “the disobedient” as the OP claims.

I dont mean to claim it, i intended to offer it, My heart has Jesus (PBWH) as blessed with the pure spirit.

Catholics have claimed to me Jesus (PBWH) is God, clearly this is a local issue for me and not the same for Catholics here.

 

[Steven_John]

Dont you find amazing that the time Jesus came the Romans ruled over Israel? then some years later Jesus sets up His Kingdom right in the heart of the roman empire? and not with wars or weapons but by His word? the Word that conquers all as He wishes. and still stands today.
because i do.

:byzsoc::bowdown:

Oh yes it is awsome but is it Jesus (PBWH) kingdom or the Fathers? and Gods word is what Jesus (PBWH) spoke, did he not say he can only do of the Father?

 

[Steven_John]

I still say this is all a ruse.

But if you are thinking about the Old Testament teaching: ‘an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth!’ Exodus 21: 23-27. That is perhaps one of the most misunderstood sayings in Scripture. It is not advocating plucking out of an eye for punishment. It is a warning to people who injure others to make equal compensation for the loss to their victims.

It also gives guidance to how far under the law one in Old Testament times were allowed to go in seeking revenge. One was not to extract from one’ s enemy more than what they had extracted from you as the injured party.

Jesus on the other hand said: 'you know how it is written an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, I tell you to love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you!’ Hardly indicative of inciting violence is it?

Blessings and peace

I am with you, Jesus (PBWH) is not God and did not tell Moses (PBBW) to kill the ones worshiping the shinny yellow cow.

Peace and blessings to you, be blessed that you are aware and help me to be so.

 

[adstrinity]

Since Christians believe that Jesus (pbuh) is God, then for what reason did he i.e. Jesus, create the fires of Hell for?

Kindly note that the popular Christian argument that it is not the Creator but rather the creations who will send themselves to the Hell-fire does not at all answer this question.

Hell was created before man was made for Lucifer & the third of the angels who decided to eternally seperate themselves from God’s Will.

 

[cecilia97]

Your advice is good, this is what i have done and dont see Jesus (PBWH) as God but truly see Him through Jesus (PBWH).

people have tried to explain to me how Jesus (PBWH) is God and i kind of get what they say, but it is far what what i read in the gospels.

i dont find where Jesus (PBWH) claims to be God the closest i come is him saying he is who he said he is, the son of man.

The nun that blerted Jesus is God is very special to me and i wanted to go further with her, but respecting her age and the tone of her voice thought i should leave it with her. I have come here because you all work together at helping people.

If she is right and God is all seeing all knowing Jesus (PBWH) instructed the killing of the people worshiping the shinny yellow cow.

In gratitude of your help and kindness

The “Son of Man” is a title from the Book of Daniel in the Old Testament. It refers to the Messiah, i.e. Jesus, and emphasizes his human nature as a descendant of Adam.

“13 As the visions during the night continued, I saw One like a son of man coming, on the clouds of heaven; When he reached the Ancient One and was presented before him,
14 He received dominion, glory, and kingship; nations and peoples of every language serve him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that shall not be taken away, his kingship shall not be destroyed.”

The Catholic Encyclopedia talks about it here:
newadvent.org/cathen/14144a.htm

Praying for you in your search.

 

[LilyM]

Oh yes it is awsome but is it Jesus (PBWH) kingdom or the Fathers? and Gods word is what Jesus (PBWH) spoke, did he not say he can only do of the Father?

Jesus spoke to Pilate about ‘MY kingdom’ which is ‘not of this world’ - in other words He is King of Heaven. Would the Father not be King of His own heaven as well as of everything else? Goes to show the literal truth of what Jesus said - ‘the Father and I ARE ONE’. And the truth of the mystery of the Trinity.

He did indeed say that He does the will or ‘business’ of the Father - again, being that He and the Father are one it couldn’t be otherwise, could it? If Jesus WERE anything other than completely one with the Father, there is no way He could completely or only do the Father’s will, His own will would intrude somewhere along the line.

 

[cecilia97]

Jesus spoke to Pilate about ‘MY kingdom’ which is ‘not of this world’ - in other words He is King of Heaven. Would the Father not be King of His own heaven as well as of everything else? Goes to show the literal truth of what Jesus said - ‘the Father and I ARE ONE’. And the truth of the mystery of the Trinity.

He did indeed say that He does the will or ‘business’ of the Father - again, being that He and the Father are one it couldn’t be otherwise, could it? If Jesus WERE anything other than completely one with the Father, there is no way He could completely or only do the Father’s will, His own will would intrude somewhere along the line.

Right on, Lily.

 

[Steven_John]

The “Son of Man” is a title from the Book of Daniel in the Old Testament. It refers to the Messiah, i.e. Jesus, and emphasizes his human nature as a descendant of Adam.

“13 As the visions during the night continued, I saw One like a son of man coming, on the clouds of heaven; When he reached the Ancient One and was presented before him,
14 He received dominion, glory, and kingship; nations and peoples of every language serve him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that shall not be taken away, his kingship shall not be destroyed.”

The Catholic Encyclopedia talks about it here:
newadvent.org/cathen/14144a.htm

Praying for you in your search.

I am grateful for you post and love.
May God bless you always

 

[Steven_John]

Jesus spoke to Pilate about ‘MY kingdom’ which is ‘not of this world’ - in other words He is King of Heaven. Would the Father not be King of His own heaven as well as of everything else? Goes to show the literal truth of what Jesus said - ‘the Father and I ARE ONE’. And the truth of the mystery of the Trinity.

He did indeed say that He does the will or ‘business’ of the Father - again, being that He and the Father are one it couldn’t be otherwise, could it? If Jesus WERE anything other than completely one with the Father, there is no way He could completely or only do the Father’s will, His own will would intrude somewhere along the line.

I am blessed by the effort of your thought, you seem to agree by the bold statment that Jesus (PBWH) did order the killing of the idol worshipers to Moses (PBWH).

I have sooooooooooo much trouble with this the “one” statment i took to be unity not same. Jesus (PBWH) for me is the message example of what i should be.

If Jesus was one the same as the Father why did he not say pray to me? why did he feel separated from the Father on the cross.

May God bless you for your help.

 

[LilyM]

I am blessed by the effort of your thought, you seem to agree by the bold statment that Jesus (PBWH) did order the killing of the idol worshipers to Moses (PBWH).

I have sooooooooooo much trouble with this the “one” statment i took to be unity not same. Jesus (PBWH) for me is the message example of what i should be.

If Jesus was one the same as the Father why did he not say pray to me? why did he feel separated from the Father on the cross.

May God bless you for your help.

Jesus when He lived on earth identified with humanity - took on human nature. Without, however, losing His divine nature.

As a human being, of course He was different from the Father who has never been a human being. And as a human He experienced the sense of separation from the Father that we all feel when we are separated from Him by our sins.

Not that He really WAS separated from the Father in His Divine Nature, not for an instant, nor was it His Divine Nature that died, but in His human body He experienced that feeling along with all His other sufferings.

Jesus allowed Thomas to pray to Him when Thomas fell at His feet in worship saying ‘My Lord and my God!’, even if He didn’t say the WORDS ‘pray to Me’ he certainly didn’t tell Thomas NOT to!

As the Word of God, in His Divine Nature, I suppose you could say He DID participate with the Father in ordering that killing, though it’s interesting that we don’t really tend to think of Him as doing so. It’s an instance of His perfect justice, I suppose, since the Israelites had sinned grievously against God.

 

[spbonner]

What does PBWH mean?

Where does it come from?

 

[LilyM]

What does PBWH mean?

Where does it come from?

‘Peace be with him’. More often (in my experience) PBUH - ‘Peace be upon him’.

It’s an Islamic expression they use for all the prophets, including Jesus, who for them is a prophet although not the Son of God.

 

[Steven_John]

Jesus when He lived on earth identified with humanity - took on human nature. Without, however, losing His divine nature.

As a human being, of course He was different from the Father who has never been a human being. And as a human He experienced the sense of separation from the Father that we all feel when we are separated from Him by our sins.

Not that He really WAS separated from the Father in His Divine Nature, not for an instant, nor was it His Divine Nature that died, but in His human body He experienced that feeling along with all His other sufferings.

Jesus allowed Thomas to pray to Him when Thomas fell at His feet in worship saying ‘My Lord and my God!’, even if He didn’t say the WORDS ‘pray to Me’ he certainly didn’t tell Thomas NOT to!

As the Word of God, in His Divine Nature, I suppose you could say He DID participate with the Father in ordering that killing, though it’s interesting that we don’t really tend to think of Him as doing so. It’s an instance of His perfect justice, I suppose, since the Israelites had sinned grievously against God.

I just dont seem to be able to, I have kinda tried. For me God indeed brings justice, He offered His mercy through Jesus (PBWH) so if i learn to be merciful, mercy will be given to me. I cant comprehend God but if i submit i can understand His messengers.
Jesus (PBWH) shows i dont have to understand God just be submitting like His messengers.

I wonder (no disrespect) how much of the start of your post you would have if no man had suggested it. With only prayer and scripture.

Please pray for me that God The Father does not dam me for seeing Jesus (PBWH) as my brother not as my Father.

The Father sent him to bring me home from the wandering, i can never put into words those 3 days.
I guess i could have a long way to go before i can be like the others.

May you, your kin and kiff be blessed as so you submit

 

[Steven_John]

‘Peace be with him’. More often (in my experience) PBUH - ‘Peace be upon him’.

It’s an Islamic expression they use for all the prophets, including Jesus, who for them is a prophet although not the Son of God.

Upon, with it the same to me.

the definition of Son, can get complex.

My understanding is Christains and Muslims both believe Jesus (PBWH) was not created by intercourse but the command of God.

I guess one could argue in the day of Jesus (PBWH) it was perceived men needed sons to continue the blessing.
God needs not from any being as He / It is the original source of all creation so He needs no son.

We needed Jesus (PBWH) because we had taken message what was given, simple enough for even basic people to follow and made it so elaberate only learned can follow and placed themselves between men and God.

 

[LilyM]

I just dont seem to be able to, I have kinda tried. For me God indeed brings justice, He offered His mercy through Jesus (PBWH) so if i learn to be merciful, mercy will be given to me. I cant comprehend God but if i submit i can understand His messengers.
Jesus (PBWH) shows i dont have to understand God just be submitting like His messengers.

I wonder (no disrespect) how much of the start of your post you would have if no man had suggested it. With only prayer and scripture.

Please pray for me that God The Father does not dam me for seeing Jesus (PBWH) as my brother not as my Father.

The Father sent him to bring me home from the wandering, i can never put into words those 3 days.
I guess i could have a long way to go before i can be like the others.

May you, your kin and kiff be blessed as so you submit

It’s the prayer and reading of scripture (along with reading of other things that came later on) that helped me to understand that what ‘man had suggested’ was, in this case, the truth. God does use other people to lead us to truth sometimes, you know.

After all, wasn’t Abraham the first to suggest the idea of one God? Don’t we accept what HE ‘suggested’ as truth?

Didn’t Moses give us (most of) the Law that both Jews and Muslims follow, and some of it Christians do too? Don’t we accept what HE ‘suggested’ as truth?

And if you do follow Islam, isn’t that based on what Mohammed ‘suggested’?

God bless you brother, and my prayers for you wherever your journey of faith may lead you.

 

[Steven_John]

It’s the prayer and reading of scripture (along with reading of other things that came later on) that helped me to understand that what ‘man had suggested’ was, in this case, the truth. God does use other people to lead us to truth sometimes, you know.

I agree if God did not guide me through people i would miss out on much but lots of stuff the scholars offer me is way over my head. It is impossible for me to submit to them in what i dont understand. difficult for me to belive God does not want me to understand His truth unless i am well educated. The naughty Jews were doing this to people 2000 years ago.
Hard for me to believe God gives bible so i can get some one to explain it to me. I reckon you need to be simple and open like a kid.

After all, wasn’t Abraham the first to suggest the idea of one God? Don’t we accept what HE ‘suggested’ as truth?

Didn’t Moses give us (most of) the Law that both Jews and Muslims follow, and some of it Christians do too? Don’t we accept what HE ‘suggested’ as truth?

I thought they were messengers and it was Gods word not their personal suggestion. Thought scripture was divinly inspired.

And if you do follow Islam, isn’t that based on what Mohammed ‘suggested’?

I dont follow mens Islam, way too much stuff bad that does not fit to my understanding and this world. No disrespect to any that do. the quran has lots of God truth too and some practice of 5 times prayer and stuff is great.

I just want to model my life on Jesus (PBWH) but maybe i am wrong, i dont want to be God, i am not strong enough to judge life and death.

I reckon Jesus (PBWH) is not God, Judas betrayed Jesus (PBWH) but served God.
God told Jesus (PBWH) what was to happen, Judas did as God said.
Judas only betrayed flesh.

May God guide us all to peace as He offered in Jesus (pbwh).

.

 

[hamba2han]

… I just want to model my life on Jesus (PBWH) …

Since this is your wish, then I suggest that you refer to this thread of which the following are the relevant posts:

1, 2, 4, 5, 60, 76, 101, 129, 153, 154 and also this post from another thread.