Catholics Can't Think For Themselves?

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Cruciform

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Greetings, all ~

I recently came across this post by a Protestant on another forum, and thought I’d see what some of the more theologically-minded of my Catholic brothers and sisters might have to say by way of critique. Any thoughtful responses will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, and God bless.

When You Become a Member of the Catholic Church, You Are to Give Up Your Reasoning Powers and Obey Blindly Without Listening to Your Conscience

“Once he does so (joins the Catholic church), he has no further use for his reason. He enters the Church, an edifice illumined by the superior light of revelation and faith. He can leave reason like a lantern at the door.” Explanation of Catholic Morals, A Concise, Reasoned, and Popular Exposition of Catholic Morals, by John H. Stapleton, p 76, Benziger Brothers, NY, 1913.

“Obey blindly , that is, without asking reasons. Be careful, then, never to examine the directions of your confessor…In a word, keep before your eyes this great rule, that in obeying your confessor you obey God. Force yourself then, to obey him in spite of all fears. And be persuaded that if you are not obedient to him it will be impossible for you to go on well; but if you obey him you are secure. But you say, if I am damned in consequence of obeying my confessor, who will rescue me from hell? What you say is impossible.” St. Alphonsus De Liguori, True Spouse of Christ, p 352, Benziger Brothers, NY.

“There is only one remedy for this evil (an over scrupulous conscience), and that remedy is absolute and blind obedience to a prudent director. Choose one, consult him as often as you desire, but do not leave him for another. Then submit punctiliously to his direction. His conscience must be yours for the time being. And if you should err in following him, God will hold him, and not you responsible.” Explanation of Catholic Morals, A Concise, Reasoned, and Popular Exposition of Catholic Morals, by John H. Stapleton, p 24, Benziger Brothers, NY, 1913.

No One Should Have the Freedom to Choose What Non-Catholic Religion They Consider to be True

“[It is error to believe that] Every man is free to embrace and profess that religion which, guided by the light of reason, he shall consider true.” Pope Pius IX, The Syllabus (of Errors), Issued in 1864, Section III, Indifferentism, Latitudinarianism, #15.
ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/P9SYLL.HTM

“[It is error to believe that] Hence it has been wisely decided by law, in some Catholic countries, that persons coming to reside therein shall enjoy the public exercise of their own peculiar worship.” Pope Pius IX, The Syllabus (of Errors), Issued in 1864, Section X, Errors Having Reference to Modern Liberalism, #78.
ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/P9SYLL.HTM

No One Should Have the Freedom to Express, or Publish, His Non-Catholic Religious Beliefs

“[It is error to believe that] Moreover, it is false that the civil liberty of every form of worship, and the full power, given to all, of overtly and publicly manifesting any opinions whatsoever and thoughts, conduce more easily to corrupt the morals and minds of the people, and to propagate the pest of indifferentism.” Pope Pius IX, The Syllabus (of Errors), Issued in 1864, Section X, Errors Having Reference to Modern LiberalismI, #79.
ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/P9SYLL.HTM

"This shameful font of indifferentism gives rise to that absurd and erroneous proposition which claims that liberty of conscience must be maintained for everyone. It spreads ruin in sacred and civil affairs, though some repeat over and over again with the greatest impudence that some advantage accrues to religion from it…a pestilence more deadly to the state than any other. Experience shows, even from earliest times, that cities renowned for wealth, dominion, and glory perished as a result of this single evil, namely immoderate freedom of opinion, license of free speech, and desire for novelty.
“Here We must include that harmful and never sufficiently denounced freedom to publish any writings whatever and disseminate them to the people, which some dare to demand and promote with so great a clamor. We are horrified to see what monstrous doctrines and prodigious errors are disseminated far and wide in countless books, pamphlets, and other writings which, though small in weight, are very great in malice.” Pope Gregory XVI, Mirari Vos (On Liberalism and Religious Indifferentism), Encyclical promulgated on August 15, 1832, #14 & 15.
ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/G16MIRAR.HTM

(Link to anti-Catholic site removed.)

Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
 
…
God gave us reason for a reason…
Just because we have to listen to the church doesn’t mean we can’t question it, and understand its teachings.
 
Cathpliics reason how each Catholic principle applies to them.
Each day they must reason how their actions will affect the teachings of the Church.
By their reason they do reconize sin and God’s will which is not to sin!
They reason the Creed in their lives.:):):):)🙂
 
Cruciform:

The protestant argument is a pretty poor one, considering that the poster, or at least many protestants, may adhere to a view of “the Bible says it, I beleive it, that settles it.”

In any case, the problem is not with what Catholicism requires of its adherents, its what protestantism does not require of its own adherents: Find a church where it’s view suits you…if it doesn’t there’s another church down the road…with a different pastor…who may or may not have any sort of reputable education (one noteworthy protestant “reverend” who I’ve heard of was made a reverend at like age 12)…don’t like his views? Go elsewhere! Better yet, form your own church! But don’t be surprised if a member with different views starts his/her own church down the road, and HE claims to have a better interpretation…etc.

Hence why the world has Baptists…and Southern Baptists…and Southern Baptist, Missoury Synod…and on ad infinitum. The “problem” is not that Catholics believe blindly (to the contrary, these beliefs stem from the reasoning of some of the greatest intellectual heavyweights ever known, i.e., Augustine, Aquinas, Albertus Magnus, St. Dominic, etc., theologians I’ve stuck up for on other threads). The “problem” is that protestants essentialy are free to believe whatever they want. Luther himself said Scripture could be twisted to support any view. Protestant churches are at times pro-life, or pro-abortion…pro-death penalty, or anti…pro-gay marriage, or anti-, etc.
 
I find that claim to be rather funny since the Blindly repeat all kinds of nonsense that they find on these vomitus websites which have been debunked so many times.But instead of investigating themselves via , Vatican website or even a good history website they rely on drivel-talk about your not-thinking!
 
Their quotes are lifted out of context. John Henry Newman addressed the Syllabus of Errors controversy back in 1870’s to the utter consternation of Prime Minister Gladstone in his Letter to the Duke of Norfolk.

But they are resurrected again and again by ignorant people who are led by other ignorant people. Gladstone made the exact same accusation; Catholics can not think for themselves, and worse, are not to be trusted by the state.

See my sig! 👍
 
Perhaps looking at this by way of personal experience would help. The convert to Catholic Christianity is guided and led by the Holy Spirit. The convert studies and examines the claims, teachings, tenets, and apostolic succession of the Catholic Church and then freely accepts the truth of that which is the body of Christ on earth. It is only then that the convert freely submits and, as C.S. Lewis would say, “raises the white flag of surrender in the fortress of his/her rebel heart.”

I remember as a cafeteria catholic when it was that I gave up my pride and submitted myself to the truth. It was the most liberating thing that I have ever done. If I am blind and unthinking by giving up on myself and trusting the more than 2000 of Christian wisdom in the bride of Christ, then I gladly accept their criticism and I am guilty as charged.

God bless.
 
When you give your life to God. You stop thinking for yourself and live in faith.

Who needs to think, God has done our thinking for us.
 
I “Think” I chose the Catholic faith because I “Thought” about what it practiced and taught. I “Think” that the Protestants that make this argument are not “Thinking” “Reasonably”, otherwise they would be "Reasonable"and not be “Thinking” this way.

Just my way of having a little fun with this. 😃
 
Sounds like a poster I have encountered. :o Maybe it’s the same guy. Anyway this Protestant commits a very basic error. When he reads the Pope saying “no one is free to XYZ” he thinks that means Catholics are not allowed to think. Rather if one substituted different words like, “No one is free to change the Ten Commandments,” then you can see the Pope is not necessarily endorsing a robotic following. In other words, when we say we are not “free to” do something, it means we are not “free to do it approvingly in the eyes of God.”

For instance, this Protestant quotes paragraph 15 of Pope Pius IX’s syllabus on Indifferentism and Latitudinarianism in which he condemns the idea that “Every man is free to embrace and profess that religion which, guided by the light of reason, he shall consider true.” Here are the other 3 subsequent paragraphs condemned in that section:*16. Man may, in the observance of any religion whatever, find the way of eternal salvation, and arrive at eternal salvation.
  1. Good hope at least is to be entertained of the eternal salvation of all those who are not at all in the true Church of Christ.
  2. Protestantism is nothing more than another form of the same true Christian religion, in which form it is given to please God equally as in the Catholic Church.*So you see the Pope’s point: No one is free to declare any religion true and have it be so. If one reads the entire syllabus, it stresses that human reason does not declare truth.
Another way to look at it is how God does not consider His children free to sin, i.e. that it’s ok to sin. If a father said to his son approvingly: “You are free to steal!” That would mean that it is ok to steal, not just that the child has the human capacity to steal.
 
Thecapz said:
When you give your life to God. You stop thinking for yourself and live in faith.

Who needs to think, God has done our thinking for us.
Click to expand...
“There is no greater freedom than turning yourself over as a slave to the Will of God.” Someone smarter than me.

The Peace of Christ to all.

bill
 
Discovering truth does not require one to be original or inventive, but receptive to reality. To learn from the knowledge of others is called wise, especially for the young who in their pride refuse to consider the truths others have discovered before them. To prefer to linger under this adolescent stance of independent thinking, rather than openness to the Truth found in the Tradition, especially in matters of religion, is ruinous folly.
 
VonDerTann said:
Cruciform:

The protestant argument is a pretty poor one, considering that the poster, or at least many protestants, may adhere to a view of “the Bible says it, I beleive it, that settles it.”

In any case, the problem is not with what Catholicism requires of its adherents, its what protestantism does not require of its own adherents: Find a church where it’s view suits you…if it doesn’t there’s another church down the road…with a different pastor…who may or may not have any sort of reputable education (one noteworthy protestant “reverend” who I’ve heard of was made a reverend at like age 12)…don’t like his views? Go elsewhere! Better yet, form your own church! But don’t be surprised if a member with different views starts his/her own church down the road, and HE claims to have a better interpretation…etc.

Hence why the world has Baptists…and Southern Baptists…and Southern Baptist, Missoury Synod…and on ad infinitum. The “problem” is not that Catholics believe blindly (to the contrary, these beliefs stem from the reasoning of some of the greatest intellectual heavyweights ever known, i.e., Augustine, Aquinas, Albertus Magnus, St. Dominic, etc., theologians I’ve stuck up for on other threads). The “problem” is that protestants essentialy are free to believe whatever they want. Luther himself said Scripture could be twisted to support any view. Protestant churches are at times pro-life, or pro-abortion…pro-death penalty, or anti…pro-gay marriage, or anti-, etc.
Click to expand...
Your comment was completely hypocritical, and I rebuke you. Looks like you forgot to mention:
—“Roman Catholic Gay Priests United”
----RC’s for a “free choice”
-----The liberal RC’s
—the conservative RC’s
—the New Age RC’s
—the Eclectic RC’s
—the Ultra-Traditionalist RC’s
----the right and left wing RC’s
----and course, lest we forget, the Rebel RC’s who were profiled in TIME, 9/7/87, with an article, “JPII’s fiesty flock: Catholics going their own way”. Honestly, with so many splinter groups excercising their freedom of conscience, it is truly hard to keep up with them all.
 
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