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ricko
Guest
The proper title is simply the Catholic Church. However, some Catholics call it the RCC not knowing the correct name or picking it up from their Protestant friends. Wish I could find that article on this subject.
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Steadfast
Guest
I prefer “Roman Catholic Church” because it describes us best while leaving the adjective “catholic” available for all those trinitarian churches which stand in the stream of historic Christianity.
It certainly isn’t anything I’d quibble over. In common parlance I call her the Catholic Church and I call myself a Catholic.
It certainly isn’t anything I’d quibble over. In common parlance I call her the Catholic Church and I call myself a Catholic.
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ricko
Guest
A: It is not possible to give an exact year when the Catholic Church began to be called the “Roman Catholic Church,” but it is possible to approximate it. The term originates as an insult created by Anglicans who wished to refer to themselves as Catholic. They thus coined the term “Roman Catholic” to distinguish those in union with Rome from themselves and to create a sense in which they could refer to themselves as Catholics (by attempting to deprive actual Catholics to the right to the term).
Different variants of the “Roman” insult appeared at different times. The earliest form was the noun “Romanist” (one belonging to the Catholic Church), which appeared in England about 1515-1525. The next to develop was the adjective “Romish” (similar to something done or believed in the Catholic Church), which appeared around 1525-1535. Next came the noun “Roman Catholic” (one belonging to the Catholic Church), which was coined around 1595-1605. Shortly thereafter came the verb “to Romanize” (to make someone a Catholic or to become a Catholic), which appeared around 1600-10. Between 1665 and 1675 we got the noun “Romanism” (the system of Catholic beliefs and practices), and finally we got a latecomer term about 1815-1825, the noun “Roman Catholicism,” a synonym for the earlier “Romanism.”
A similar complex of insults arose around “pope.” About 1515-25 the Anglicans coined the term “papist” and later its derivative “papism.” A quick follow-up, in 1520-1530, was the adjective “popish.” Next came “popery” (1525-1535), then “papistry” (1540-1550), with its later derivatives, “papistical” and “papistic.” (Source: Random House Webster’s College Dictionary, 1995 ed.)
This complex of insults is revealing as it shows the depths of animosity English Protestants had toward the Church. No other religious body (perhaps no other group at all, even national or racial) has such a complex of insults against it woven into the English language as does the Catholic Church. Even today many Protestants who have no idea what the origin of the term is cannot bring themselves to say “Catholic” without qualifying it or replacing it with an insult.
Different variants of the “Roman” insult appeared at different times. The earliest form was the noun “Romanist” (one belonging to the Catholic Church), which appeared in England about 1515-1525. The next to develop was the adjective “Romish” (similar to something done or believed in the Catholic Church), which appeared around 1525-1535. Next came the noun “Roman Catholic” (one belonging to the Catholic Church), which was coined around 1595-1605. Shortly thereafter came the verb “to Romanize” (to make someone a Catholic or to become a Catholic), which appeared around 1600-10. Between 1665 and 1675 we got the noun “Romanism” (the system of Catholic beliefs and practices), and finally we got a latecomer term about 1815-1825, the noun “Roman Catholicism,” a synonym for the earlier “Romanism.”
A similar complex of insults arose around “pope.” About 1515-25 the Anglicans coined the term “papist” and later its derivative “papism.” A quick follow-up, in 1520-1530, was the adjective “popish.” Next came “popery” (1525-1535), then “papistry” (1540-1550), with its later derivatives, “papistical” and “papistic.” (Source: Random House Webster’s College Dictionary, 1995 ed.)
This complex of insults is revealing as it shows the depths of animosity English Protestants had toward the Church. No other religious body (perhaps no other group at all, even national or racial) has such a complex of insults against it woven into the English language as does the Catholic Church. Even today many Protestants who have no idea what the origin of the term is cannot bring themselves to say “Catholic” without qualifying it or replacing it with an insult.
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ASimpleSinner
Guest
From Wikipedia:
"Theologians of the English Reformation at the end of the sixteenth century, who saw themselves as part of the catholic church, were the first to use the term “Roman Catholic” to refer to those who were faithful to the Bishop of Rome, but the latter also sometimes employed it as early as the seventeenth century, not only in English but also in Latin and French,[10] to profess their faith in the importance of communion with the See of Rome. Nonetheless, the Church usually avoids in English the term “Roman Catholic”, because of its use by some to posit a distinction between “the Roman Catholic Church” and “the catholic Church”."
I believe in English - and I am going to look for a reference - that this parlance came into vogue among Anglicans/Episcopalians who espoused “Branch Theory” and wanted to paint the Anglican church as catholic, while the “other catholics” were Roman, or foreign. To this end frequent reference to “The Roman Church” and the “Bishop of Rome” were made.
For the life of me I have never understood the “Bishop of Rome” deal… except that it is likely intended to reflect he is “just another bishop.” But most who use it would call the Archbishop or Canterbury just that - archbishop, or the Patriarch of Moscow… and certainly most would call Shenouda III of Alexandria “Pope”… More to the point, the conscious decsion to NOT use the honorfic of Pope can sometimes be intended as a slight.
Agreed. Of course given how very many Latins don’t know we even exist, it seems a little out of the way in average conversation or writing. Of course we almost ALWAYS do get mentioned in writings about the celibacy issue in the standard mention of the “eastern rites” * a la*: “*Besides, in the Eastern (Byzantine) Rite of the Catholic Church (still under the Pope) priests can get married.” *(groan)
In terminology we sometimes have to pick and choose our battles.
I used to try to explain to people that I was Byzantine Catholic, not Roman, that we were NOT Greek Orthodox, that we are… now?
I just settle for saying “Catholic”
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Steadfast
Guest
It’s interesting that you bring up the insulting origin of the name.
I was taught to believe that it was coined by branch theory Anglicans to differentiate it from their own church which they considered Catholic enough.
But be that as it may, you are aware that the Lutherans, Methodists, Quakers, Shakers and Baptists were all named by people who wanted to peg and insult them at the same time, right?
It’s a historical commonplace this naming of movements by their opponents.
It’s no big deal. Most movements just deal with it.
I was taught to believe that it was coined by branch theory Anglicans to differentiate it from their own church which they considered Catholic enough.
But be that as it may, you are aware that the Lutherans, Methodists, Quakers, Shakers and Baptists were all named by people who wanted to peg and insult them at the same time, right?
It’s a historical commonplace this naming of movements by their opponents.
It’s no big deal. Most movements just deal with it.
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rr1213
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Steadfast
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patrick457
Guest
Definitely the Catholic Church if describing the whole institution (Eastern Catholic rites inclusive)
Roman Catholic seems to only refer to Catholics of the Roman (Latin) Rite so I think it’s more proper to use the latter term when only describing the Latin Rite Catholics.
Roman Catholic seems to only refer to Catholics of the Roman (Latin) Rite so I think it’s more proper to use the latter term when only describing the Latin Rite Catholics.
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victus
Guest
I voted for Catholic Church
when talking to my protestant friend I usually say “well, the Church teaches…”
I also hate calling protestant communities, churches. Christ founded one church and that is the Catholic Church. Therefore protestants dont have the right of calling themselves church.
when talking to my protestant friend I usually say “well, the Church teaches…”
I also hate calling protestant communities, churches. Christ founded one church and that is the Catholic Church. Therefore protestants dont have the right of calling themselves church.
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Steadfast
Guest
Oh, I don’t know about that.
They are part of the Universal Church.
In the Bible the word is applied to individual local bodies as well as to the community of the faithful in a given geographic region thus even your church will distinguish between the French and the Mexican church (for example).
But even ignoring that, it remains that Protestant Christians are part of the church and deserve the name.
What will you take from them next?
Christian?
I urge you to read the conciliar documents on the church, esp. Lumen Gentium and *Unitatis Redintigratio.
*The attitude you betray in your post is very much out of step with these.
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rr1213
Guest
I guarantee you that Protestants will not stop describing their Churches as “Churches”. Nor should we.
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victus
Guest
However, I believe the Catholic Church does not call them churches, but more along the line of “eccelesial communities”
for they do not have valid apostolic succession as does the Orthodox, along with us.
But, when it comes to christian, they are because of baptism.
CCC
818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers … All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272
819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276
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Syele
Guest
There are even many people who believe the term “Christian” was coined by anti-christians who were using it in a derogatory manner. How correct this is, is up for debate but it is what many are taught.
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