Catholics/Christains are so prjudice

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Mannyfit,

Humans are saints. Those who aren’t saints are living beneath humanity. Please, don’t make excuses for those who are living a subhuman life.

CDL
 
If only christians as a whole were like you I may’ve stuck to catholoscism:(
(Thou i disagree with its stance of gays :P)
Why do you disagree with the Catholic Church teachings on gays?

The CCC states the following on homosexuality;

23*57 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

CCC: 2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

CCC: 2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.

CCC: 2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.*

The Catholic Church teachings on homosexuals sounds morally correct.

Let us take a look what Scripture has to say.

Here is a list of Scriptures verses and the interpretations;

Gen. 1 & 2 - we see from the beginning that the complimentarity of the sexes reflects God’s inner unity and His creative power and Fatherhood. God created man and woman to become one flesh which is consummated in the act of marital love.

Gen. 2:18 – throughout the creation story, God says “it is good” seven times. But when God pointed out that man was alone, God says “it is not good.” God then created woman. Man and woman therefore belong together by God’s design, according to His natural and supernatural law.

Gen. 2:24 – God created man and woman so that they could share communion. This communion is consummated in the marital act (which must be between a man and a woman). This communion is also a reflection of the eternal communion of the Blessed Trinity, who created man in His own image and likeness.

Gen. 19:24-28 - the Lord rained fire and brimstone on Sodom and Gomorrah as punishment for the sin of homosexuality. Homosexuality perverts God’s covenant with humanity.

Lev. 18:22, 29 - God commands a man never to lie with a male as with a female, or he will be cut off. This refers to supernatural death which is eternal separation from God.

Lev. 20:13 - God says that if a man lies with another man, he shall be put to death. Homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered, unhealthy, and mortally sinful.

Deut. 22:5 - cross-dressing is also considered an abomination before God.

Matt. 19:6 - after referring to God’s divine plan for man and woman, Jesus says a husband and wife become one flesh, which ultimately reflects God’s union with humanity through the Church. Homosexual unions pervert this divine truth of God’s love for and union with the human race.

Rom. 1:26 - also, when a woman lies with another women, this is unnatural and a perversion. God wants His children to be pure and holy as He is holy.

Rom. 1:27 – Saint Paul calls the practice of homosexuality shameless, unnatural and a perversity. It is contrary to the natural law, as it eviscerates the life-giving aspect of human sexuality and reduces it to a selfish, pleasure-seeking end.

1 Cor. 6:9 - homosexuality is not part of God’s plan for His kingdom. Homosexuals are called to chastity.

1 Tim. 1:10 - sodomites are called ungodly and sinners, unholy and profane, lawless and disobedient. They are called by God to chastity. It is important to note that homosexual attractions and inclinations, while dangerous, are not by themselves sinful per se. It is the acting out on homosexual attraction that is sinful. Those with homosexual desires can still live a life worthy of Christ by remaining chaste and pure as they abstain from acting out on their desires.

((continue))
 
Early Church Fathers/ Traditions;

You shall not commit fornication; you shall not commit adultery; you shall not be a corrupter of youth." Letter of Barnabas 10 (A.D. 74).

“You shall not be a corrupter of boys, nor like unto such.” Letter of Barnabas 10 (A.D. 74).

“You shall not commit murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not commit pederasty, you shall not commit fornication, you shall not steal, you shall not practice magic, you shall not practice witchcraft, you shall not murder a child by abortion nor kill one that has been born.” Didache 2:2 (A.D. 90).
 
Gregory
I would be careful with that kind of rhetoric.

For humans have a fallen nature. We are all called to be perfect, and truly none live up to their calling. However, Hitler was just as human as I am, though I like to think I am closer to living out my calling to sainthood than he was.

If you dehumanize, you give reasons for hate. We cannot dehumanize, we are called to love the sinner and hate the sin. We cannot say they are not human for their sin, this is directly against Church teaching.

I do not think that Mannyfit was giving excuses, but simply showing the truth.

A lone Raven
 
Mannyfit,

Humans are saints. Those who aren’t saints are living beneath humanity. Please, don’t make excuses for those who are living a subhuman life.

CDL
I am not making an excuse here. Humans are sinners that is why they need God to be saved. I’m grateful as a Catholic that the CC provides its faithful the Sacraments.

No one here is claiming humans as subhumans. In the human condition people will sin because of the original sins of our first parents.

Humans are sinners, and I tell you my friend there are few saints here on earth. I know that because the people of today are too materialistic, and are godless. The world is become secular just watch the news.

In these times however, there are those devote Christians who practice their faith by their deeds. They have their own internal struggles.
 
I’m certainly prejudiced against horrible grammar and spelling skills. That’s for sure.

Peace and love,
Tony
 
Why do you disagree with the Catholic Church teachings on gays?
.

((continue))
I probably shouldve mentioned I call into serious question the events that happened in thr Bible, esp. those in the OT

As for unnatural, from an evolutionary perspective, it was very beneficial for primates (and maybe early humans) as it encouraged close nit societal bonds between individuals of a troop.
You can still see this (as I know Universally) in all the ape species and a percentage in the higher mammels.

From a person stand point what seems to be considered ‘unatural’ seems to vary depending on the society. There was a time when a black man and a white woman was considered ‘an abomination and affront to God’. If its between to consenting adults that are fully capable and understanding of the consequences, then go for it
 
Gregory
I would be careful with that kind of rhetoric.

For humans have a fallen nature. We are all called to be perfect, and truly none live up to their calling. However, Hitler was just as human as I am, though I like to think I am closer to living out my calling to sainthood than he was.

If you dehumanize, you give reasons for hate. We cannot dehumanize, we are called to love the sinner and hate the sin. We cannot say they are not human for their sin, this is directly against Church teaching.

I do not think that Mannyfit was giving excuses, but simply showing the truth.

A lone Raven
I reject your faulty teachings on this point. When we fell we slowly began to cease to be human. When Christ died for our sins He gave us the opportunity to once again become humans. For all who “believe and are called by His Name He gave us the power to become the children of God, who are born not only of the flesh, not only of the will of man, but of God.” Most people live below the level of humanity. That doesn’t mean God died for them. Precisely the opposite. We fell beneath humanity and that is precisely why He did die for us. He did not wish for humanity to cease to exist. For those who continue to sin after baptism the danger is that they will fall back into a subhuman category and eventually drop into hell. Read St. Athanasius, “The Divine Dilemma” sometime. It will help you get your Christology and Soteriology back on track.

CDL
 
I probably shouldve mentioned I call into serious question the events that happened in thr Bible, esp. those in the OT

As for unnatural, from an evolutionary perspective, it was very beneficial for primates (and maybe early humans) as it encouraged close nit societal bonds between individuals of a troop.
You can still see this (as I know Universally) in all the ape species and a percentage in the higher mammels.

From a person stand point what seems to be considered ‘unatural’ seems to vary depending on the society. There was a time when a black man and a white woman was considered ‘an abomination and affront to God’. If its between to consenting adults that are fully capable and understanding of the consequences, then go for it
In Sacred Scripture, or in the Catholic Church there is no writing that support “that black man and woman was consider an abomination and affront to God.” There is no document in the Magisterium of the Church that states such support. Those views are held by bias white Christian separatists who’s mind are completely distorted.

In the issue of homosexuality it is unnatural. If you put in a nature point of view, homosexuality cannot survive. Homosexual acts is against life. It cannot create life. In the case of man and woman, the action of intercourse creates life, a child. The man provides the sperm, and female provides the egg cell.

If you really look at what homosexuals do, it is against nature. Male homosexuals in particular commits acts of sodmy, or anal sex. There is no union between homosexuals that can produce life by itself. It would take a work of science to do that.

Let me put it this way, a man’s body is design to help produce new life by impregnating a woman. It is essential for the survival of the human race.

Let me add another. You would not use a screw driver to drive a nail into a wood beam. The screw driver isn’t design for that. A hammer is.

Homosexuality acts should be refrain because it is against nature. If you want to put God in prospective, God is the God of Nature.

There are also consequences in which homosexuals may risk themselves in transmitting sexually transmitted diseases if they continue to live an ACTIVE homosexual lifestyle.

In any rate, homosexuality is condemned by God, and anyone who practices will be condemned by God’s judgement.
 
I don’t know why Catholics/christians are so prjudice. I’ve been a member of this thread for months and read countless threads, responses take my breath away and my blood boil.?
in the first place, the participants in these forums are not “all Christians and Catholics” so you cannot make any generalization about “all Christians and Catholics” based on what you read in these forums.

In the second place, not all the participants in these forums claim to be Christian or Catholic, so again, it is unfair to ascribe all the uncharitable comments here (and yes, we have our share) to “all Christians and Catholics”

If I make a clear statement of Church teaching on morality or doctrine which disagrees with the personal opinions of someone else, or with the teaching of another denomination, that does not make be prejudiced, it makes me accurate and honest.
 
I am not making an excuse here. Humans are sinners that is why they need God to be saved. I’m grateful as a Catholic that the CC provides its faithful the Sacraments.

No one here is claiming humans as subhumans. In the human condition people will sin because of the original sins of our first parents.

Humans are sinners, and I tell you my friend there are few saints here on earth. I know that because the people of today are too materialistic, and are godless. The world is become secular just watch the news.

In these times however, there are those devote Christians who practice their faith by their deeds. They have their own internal struggles.
Humans aren’t subhuman at all. Humans who refuse the grace of God and reject the birth of the Holy Spirit slip beneath the level of humanity. Humans are not sinners. The struggles cease as we become fully human. For what it’s worth I believe you have turned Christian doctrine upside down.

CDL
 
Humans aren’t subhuman at all. Humans who refuse the grace of God and reject the birth of the Holy Spirit slip beneath the level of humanity. Humans are not sinners. The struggles cease as we become fully human. For what it’s worth I believe you have turned Christian doctrine upside down.

CDL
Like I said I did not say that humans are subhumans.

Humans are totally dependant on God’s saving grace. I don’t think I turn Christian doctrine upset down. I think YOU misintepret my writings.
 
Humans aren’t subhuman at all. Humans who refuse the grace of God and reject the birth of the Holy Spirit slip beneath the level of humanity. Humans are not sinners. The struggles cease as we become fully human. For what it’s worth I believe you have turned Christian doctrine upside down.

CDL
Do you truly believe humans are not sinners? What Church doctrine support that idea? If humans are not sinners, then why did God manifest as Jesus?

Consider the following from the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

545 Jesus invites sinners to the table of the kingdom: “I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.” He invites them to that conversion without which one cannot enter the kingdom, but shows them in word and deed his Father’s boundless mercy for them and the vast “joy in heaven over one sinner who repents”. The supreme proof of his love will be the sacrifice of his own life “for the forgiveness of sins”.

827 “Christ, ‘holy, innocent, and undefiled,’ knew nothing of sin, but came only to expiate the sins of the people. The Church, however, clasping sinners to her bosom, at once holy and always in need of purification, follows constantly the path of penance and renewal.” All members of the Church, including her ministers, must acknowledge that they are sinners. In everyone, the weeds of sin will still be mixed with the good wheat of the Gospel until the end of time. Hence the Church gathers sinners already caught up in Christ’s salvation but still on the way to holiness:

The Church is therefore holy, though having sinners in her midst, because she herself has no other life but the life of grace. If they live her life, her members are sanctified; if they move away from her life, they fall into sins and disorders that prevent the radiation of her sanctity. This is why she suffers and does penance for those offenses, of which she has the power to free her children through the blood of Christ and the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Your profile states, that you are from the Eastern Rite tradition of the Catholic Church. I don’t think the Catholic has a teaching that says that humans aren’t sinners.
 
Humans aren’t subhuman at all. Humans who refuse the grace of God and reject the birth of the Holy Spirit slip beneath the level of humanity. Humans are not sinners. The struggles cease as we become fully human. For what it’s worth I believe you have turned Christian doctrine upside down.

CDL
Humans are not sinners? Are you a Catholic or even a christian?
 
Apparently you fellows don’t know your theology very well. This continues to be for many reasons a very ignorant thread. If anyone really wish to discuss the theology of salvation you may wish to start a new thread. This one is bizaar.

CDL
 
Apparently you fellows don’t know your theology very well. This continues to be for many reasons a very ignorant thread. If anyone really wish to discuss the theology of salvation you may wish to start a new thread. This one is bizaar.

CDL
Oh I do my theology. I read the Catechism of the Catholic Church, the Conpendium of the Catholic Church, the Bible (both the RSV, NAB, and the DR-Translations). I have not found any document of the Catholic Church that claims that humans are not sinners.

There is none. If you read the Bible, when Adam and Eve sin, death came into the world. In order to restore the relationship between humanity and God, God send his only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ and save us from our sins. He lived, died, and rose again from the dead, and seated at the Right Hand of the Father.

Even though Jesus saved us from our sins, we can lose our salvation when we sin or break God’s law. In order to restore our salvations, we must repent and confess our sins. We are still sinners, and we are also saints. I am a sinner, and so are you. Don’t deny it that you can live a life without sinning. No human being here can live in righteous life. They will be cut off unless they repent.
 
I don’t know why Catholics/christians are so prjudice. I’ve been a member of this thread for months and read countless threads, responses take my breath away and my blood boil.Homosexuals tend to be evil in one way or another regardless of individual beleifs and behavior.
I don’t know that homosexuals are evil but the Church teaches that to engage in homosexual acts is a mortal sin and I believe it. If that is what you mean then I am guilty.
Muslims are these evil beasts and targets of extreme hate!. One political party or another blah blah. Why can’t we just love and except one another. We don’t have to approve or anything, no changing beliefs or principles. Just except not everyone is of our faith, not all beleive as we do. I hear way too often about Muslims trying to force us to live their way and desire to dominate us.
What do you think 9/11 was about?
Well when one hears Christians saying how the government isn’t upholding our beleifs above all others and that we should do this and have this and others who are different shouldn’t do blah blah, aren’t we doing just the thing we accuse them of doing. People always talking about Christian beleifes in government and fighting off Muslims and all that, isn’t that just what we hear about Muslims trying to do and complain and whine. Christian gets killed in a Muslim country we all wail in anguish and anger. Muslims are attacked and killed in America and Christian countries as well.
When was a Muslim attacked and killed in this country for being Muslim? We don’t make videos of us beheading Muslims but they do when they behead Christians. I will chalk it up to your age, but this country was founded on Christian principals and now we find that people are trying to force feedom from religion on us when the constitution only guarantees freedom of religion.
Even people who aren’t Muslim but are arabic and wear clothing of something Eastern or something are targets. ?
Show some proof. My son in law is a Christian from Lebanon and has never experienced any sort of discrimination other than in Middle Easter grocery stores owed by Muslims who openly refer to Christians as kefir.
I trust the Catholic Church completely, but her followers and those who branched off from her seem to be far from trustworthy, just a giant 2 billion army of hypocrits and war mongers. I understand that isn’t true of some, but it does seem to be the majority, it saddens me truly. Where has the love and compassion and understanding that Jesus taught? Why is there so much prjudice and self righteousness in a group who is supposed to be different, supposed to be like Christ?
We are the Church, would you just stand by and not fight to protect Her? To be honest it is kids like you who worry me about the future of this country. God help us when you are running the Church and the country.
 
in the first place, the participants in these forums are not “all Christians and Catholics” so you cannot make any generalization about “all Christians and Catholics” based on what you read in these forums.

In the second place, not all the participants in these forums claim to be Christian or Catholic, so again, it is unfair to ascribe all the uncharitable comments here (and yes, we have our share) to “all Christians and Catholics”

If I make a clear statement of Church teaching on morality or doctrine which disagrees with the personal opinions of someone else, or with the teaching of another denomination, that does not make be prejudiced, it makes me accurate and honest.
If you notice in some of my other posts, I’m talking about the ones who claim to belong to Christianity. I do understand that I made a broad and indirect statement as well.
 
I don’t know that homosexuals are evil but the Church teaches that to engage in homosexual acts is a mortal sin and I believe it. If that is what you mean then I am guilty.

What do you think 9/11 was about?

When was a Muslim attacked and killed in this country for being Muslim? We don’t make videos of us beheading Muslims but they do when they behead Christians. I will chalk it up to your age, but this country was founded on Christian principals and now we find that people are trying to force feedom from religion on us when the constitution only guarantees freedom of religion.

Show some proof. My son in law is a Christian from Lebanon and has never experienced any sort of discrimination other than in Middle Easter grocery stores owed by Muslims who openly refer to Christians as kefir.

We are the Church, would you just stand by and not fight to protect Her? To be honest it is kids like you who worry me about the future of this country. God help us when you are running the Church and the country.
Christians usually either condemn homosexuals in general, or are too excepting, to far extreme. I support and except the Church’s teachings as it is clearly said in the Bible.

9/11 was about some small minority extremist group who took advantage of our countries pride and over confidence.

Muslims are targets of hate crimes all the time. No there isn’t many videos on our side of murders, they exist though. Those beheadings are done by terrorist extremist not Muslims, nor do they represent Islam.

Proof well my proof is what I’ve seen, people see a sheik or a hindu or someone from India, or an Arab in more traditional clothing and think Muslim and are usually rude or mean and tend to verbally attack or make fun of them, which makes them seem stupid to someone with any real teaching like me who knows that they are of a different faith and nationality. Of course as I fly very often see it in airports now too, though it can somewhat be understandable, but to be a Muslim extremist one doesn’t have to be any specific ethnicity.

America is not the Church. When the Vatican is in danger from Muslim threats or a Catholic church or anything belonging to the Church is in danger I will defend her if I can with all my being. For this country, it is young and most likely it will eventually fall to some other country, maybe even Islam in not China first. My nation is secondary to my faith.
 
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