Catholics/Christians/Others

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I have two different thoughts on this:If the particular Muslims have not been preached the Gospel they may be saved under certain conditions (no breaking of the natural laws) I think it speaks the truth. thirdly:it might say to non catholics that you dont need Christ or the Church to be saved thereby inhibiting them to seek the truth.
 
valentino said:
I have two different thoughts on this:If the particular Muslims have not been preached the Gospel they may be saved under certain conditions (no breaking of the natural laws) I think it speaks the truth. thirdly:it might say to non catholics that you dont need Christ or the Church to be saved thereby inhibiting them to seek the truth.
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You know this is a great point. Which I brought up and no-one wants to probe in-depth. For whatever reason, probly because they are on CAF and are affraid to speak honestly or have a tainted idea of what is Truth. Because when you do evaluate these issues, the rational educated mind quickly see’s a flaw in the concept.
 
It is interesting that you should write that, Marsha, given the fact that the infamously controversial CCC 841 that is supported with reference to “Lumen Gentium” (which, yes, is a document; I’m not sure why you take this as a snub?) has been explained to me as being not infallible, precisely because it is “just” in the Catcechism and the Catechism is not to be taken as infallible.

So, you tell me, please: Does infallibility somehow become something less than infallibility when actually put into practice to address a given situation? Because that’s how it seems, and then I wonder why anyone is taken to be infallible to begin with…
 
dzheremi said:
It is interesting that you should write that, Marsha, given the fact that the infamously controversial CCC 841 that is supported with reference to “Lumen Gentium” (which, yes, is a document; I’m not sure why you take this as a snub?) has been explained to me as being not infallible, precisely because it is “just” in the Catcechism and the Catechism is not to be taken as infallible.

So, you tell me, please: Does infallibility somehow become something less than infallibility when actually put into practice to address a given situation? Because that’s how it seems, and then I wonder why anyone is taken to be infallible to begin with…
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Here is Lumen Gentium (the Dogmatic Constitution on the Church) paragraph 16:
  1. Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related in various ways to the people of God.(18*) In the first place we must recall the people to whom the testament and the promises were given and from whom Christ was born according to the flesh.(125) On account of their fathers this people remains most dear to God, for God does not repent of the gifts He makes nor of the calls He issues.(126) But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Mohammedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things,(127) and as Saviour wills that all men be saved.(128) Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.(19*) Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life. Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is looked upon by the Church as a preparation for the Gospel.(20*) She knows that it is given by Him who enlightens all men so that they may finally have life. But often men, deceived by the Evil One, have become vain in their reasonings and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, serving the creature rather than the Creator.(129) Or some there are who, living and dying in this world without God, are exposed to final despair. Wherefore to promote the glory of God and procure the salvation of all of these, and mindful of the command of the Lord, “Preach the Gospel to every creature”,(130) the Church fosters the missions with care and attention.
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The Catechism may not be infallible, but the Magisterium of which the Dogmatic constitution is part, certainly is infallible. Perhaps the Catechism is fallible because it is a grandchild of the Magisterium? I have no knowledge regarding that so I can only guess.
 
Hmm. That’s an interesting idea. “Hereditary infallibility”…I could use some of that myself! 😃
 
Bwtby said:
I’m referring to this that you said…
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I am referring to Elijah Muhammad, Macolm X , Farrakhan etc which were called the 5% ers. They are already labeled a Racist hate group by the Goverment. But they are also Sunni Islamic.

I wouldn’t be so quick to seperate them from Islam. When I switched over and left for another carrer area in the late 90’s this was already evolving and melting into mainstream Islam. There were White Members of the Nation of Islam in the prison system in the late 90’s. So I’m pretty sure its only escalated futher.

And I think the goverment is a bit over zealous here. Though I viewed Islam as Dangerous I didn’t see Black Racism as its main issue, I seen Islam as its main issue. To me it would be no different than walking into Black or White community today. You are just going to find those who have no-issue with race and others who have deep learned behaviors and actually need therapy. Also to a large degree I believe many aligned themselves for protection. I’ve seen some of these guys out on the street in CT and they have abandoned Islam. So theres many different aspects to looking at it. But it is Islamic.

Its sort of like looking at Christianity and the Catholic, Orthodox and all the different Prostestant Denominations. While they are not all the same, in many way’s there are common denominators which align them. And its the same with Islam and further complicates the issue’s which we see with radical Islam. Why do you think all the Good Muslims are not solving the problem of Radical Islam? When your in it your in it. Its not a game which some young americans now are quickly finding out, others are still facinated and intrigued by Islam. Untill it gets ugly real fast and puts the fear of God into you. And as you see then, they run to the Government for “their” protection.

So while Islam grew in all areas, so to they begin attending the Mosques together regardless of Nation of Isalm or Islam. They put their differences aside with Islam being the point which unites. Violence is the point which seperates.

Hate or Anger and Wrath is not of God. Its one of the seven deadly sins which equates to the Devil, Flesh and this physical World. So Good people become appauled:shrug:

My point here is that while its an illusion and a distraction to call all who are weary of Islam Bigots, their are racists, but there’s also a very real racial issue on the part of Islam. And what I find is we tend to focus on all which isn’t Islamic to be the Racial problem. And that is Obviously False.
 
Yeah, the NOI is in no way mainstream. Malcolm X left after realizing that.
 
Sunni and Shiite Muslims don’t even consider them Muslims.

I even believe this was an Oz episode, wasn’t it?
 
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