No.
A forum master is not the same as a Jedi master.
Huh?
From my understanding, the CCC is not an infallible document. I have heard that from many Catholics.
I would be curious to know in what way each denomination would be bound by a previous statement from the early fathers. They aren’t considered infallible after all…
I believe that will happen too. Our current Pope said it was “better” or a “step in the right direction” for gay prostitutes to use condoms to avoid compounding the sin of infecting someone with AIDS on top of the sin of gay relations, on top of the sin of prostitution, on top of the sin of nonunitive and nonprocreative sex…etc etc. And granted some people argue over what exactly all that statement meant, but I do believe the Vatican will start allowing condoms for AIDS and STD protection, and yes, it will trickle down to being left with the family priest/spiritual father.
Yes. Obedience is key. But there is a difference. In Catholicism, sometimes there is this rigid legalism which locks people into situations where they feel oppressed and/or abandoned. In Orthodoxy, everyone should have a spiritual father (and he is usually your confessor also). We are obedient to our spiritual father and he gives us the medicine we need for the salvation of our souls. Sometimes there is a strict adherence to the canons…sometimes there is “economia” depending on the situation (ie: permission to use condoms if one spouse has AIDS).
You already answered it. Why do you keep asking it and sending the discussion in circles? :whacky:
Serious reasons, etc.
That took about 3 seconds using google:
Alas, there was a time indeed when the Holy Fathers and the Church taught that intercourse was for purposes of pro-creation only. If the Church comes up with NFP as a way around this–then condom use would be no different. Personally, I believe that NFP to prevent conception and condom use could be allowed for exceptional circumstances under the guidance of a spiritual father. All abortificient methods are out of the question—and of course abortion is murder.
Eureka! You and I are in agreement.
The stumbling block is a major one. In my own case, the issue at hand has absolutely nothing to do with my life in practice. But I am concerned how it affects others.
I disagree with you. The Pope still believes that using condoms during the marital act for any reason is immoral, even if such usage may signify an awakening of conscience. The awakening is good, but condoms are not.
Quite correct. This statement is considered true by Catholic and Orthodox alike and is another reason why we must rely on the assurance given to us by Jesus that the Holy Spirit would guide the Church faithfully (John 14:26,15:26,16:13).
Ok, fair enough LOLNo.
A forum master is not the same as a Jedi master.
I don’t think I need to, because of the nature of the bantering of this thread, such as “who makes a woman infertile? do you know? well, I know, do you know?” But I quoted some out of the CCC below.
At the end of Humanae Vitae, there is a list of references pertaining to the statements made with corresonding statement numbers. You can go back and look at the documentation that it references. For example, if a statement is supported by a quote out of the CCC, you can use the reference to look up the CCC paragraph and read it. If the statement is supported by a quote out of the Bible, you can use the reference to look up in the Bible. If it’s from a council, you can look up the documentation from that council.
Many Catholics are uninformed. The CCC itself is not an infallible document. It is a library of infallible teachings.From my understanding, the CCC is not an infallible document. I have heard that from many Catholics.
Inside the CCC, in the "On the publication of the CCC, JPII states:
“The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I approved June 25th last and the publication of which I today order by virtue of my Apostolic Authority, is a statement of the Church’s faith and of catholic doctrine, attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition, and the Church’s Magiterium. I declare it to be a sure norm for teaching the faith and thus a valid and legitimate instrument for ecclesial communion.”
It goes on and on about it being a teaching tool, and it is expected of Catholics to follow.
And BTW, the CCC says this:
2368 A particular aspect of this responsibility concerns the regulation of procreation. For just reasons, spouses may wish to space the births of their children. It is their duty to make certain that their desire is not motivated by selfishness but is in conformity with the generosity appropriate to responsible parenthood.
2370 Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality.158 These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast, “every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible” is intrinsically evil:159
Thus the innate language that expresses the total reciprocal self-giving of husband and wife is overlaid, through contraception, by an objectively contradictory language, namely, that of not giving oneself totally to the other. This leads not only to a positive refusal to be open to life but also to a falsification of the inner truth of conjugal love, which is called upon to give itself in personal totality. . . . The difference, both anthropological and moral, between contraception and recourse to the rhythm of the cycle . . . involves in the final analysis two irreconcilable concepts of the human person and of human sexuality.160
Because I want YOU to answer it, because I am interested in what YOU believe.
That is correct, unless they begin such a statement with something such as “I declare”
Wait, your position is that couples can’t engage in the marital act without serious reasons to do so? Where on earth do you get that idea?
Agreed. Which results in them just doing what they want and not worrying about all the legalism.
Well, we have family priests that act this way too. The problem is when others stick their noses in that relationship and claim that so-and-so’s pastor or family priest is wrong, and that they, in fact, are right
You can’t always get what you want.
Oh my! It is magisterial double speak!
Natural Family Planning: A method by which a couple monitor the present state of the woman’s fertility and engage in or avoid intercourse so they can either increase or reduce the chance of a particular act of intercourse resulting in conception of a child.I don’t know if anyone else has mentioned this, but…
Most of us who are not Catholic have no idea what NFP stands for.