Catholics: Defend NFP using patristics and Tradition

[wanner47]

If it’s your position to accept what the Church says simply because the Church says it then you’ll have no problem explaining away what is a clear contradiction. If that is the case then don’t waste anymore time reading my posts.

And what clear contradiction would that be?

Do you honestly think that every Pope since 1880, when the issue of periodic continence for the purpose of child spacing was first raised with the Holy See, has upheld a decision that stands in clear contradiction to the Church fathers? Every Pope since 1880 has taught error or allowed error to be taught in this regard?

If so, why are you Catholic?

 

[Rence]

By taking active steps to make sure that when the couple copulates the woman cannot conceive.

What steps would that be? The point of NFP is to abstain (that is, to take no steps) during fertile times as part of responsible parenthood.

 

[wanner47]

What steps would that be? The point of NFP is to abstain (that is, to take no steps) during fertile times as part of responsible parenthood.

Agreed.

I’m *really *confused because my husband and I have used NFP to *achieve *pregnancy several times, so how on earth were we acting to prevent and achieve pregnancy at the same time?

Maybe we’re just really talented?

 

[Rence]

Agreed.

I’m *really *confused because my husband and I have used NFP to *achieve *pregnancy several times, so how on earth were we acting to prevent and achieve pregnancy at the same time?

Maybe we’re just really talented?

I could be wrong, but I think Josephdaniel is only opposed to NFP when it is used to prevent pregnancies, and thinks sex in a marriage should only be done with the intention of conceiving, each and every time, and that it is sinful to have sex if you’re not ovulating…apparently, by his posts.

 

[josephdaniel29]

What active steps would those be?

Making sure the woman is not fertile and only having sex during those times.

 

[Rence]

Making sure the woman is not fertile and only having sex during those times.

Abstaining from sex during fertile times is not an action that is being done. Nothing is being done to tamper with a woman’s natrual cycle. That is, in fact, why we have cycles.

 

[josephdaniel29]

What steps would that be? The point of NFP is to abstain (that is, to take no steps) during fertile times as part of responsible parenthood.

The steps to insure you don’t have sex when the woman is fertile.

 

[Rence]

The steps to insure you don’t have sex when the woman is fertile.

That’s not an action that interferes with the natural cycle. That’s doing nothing. There are no “steps” involved with abstaining during fertile times.

 

[josephdaniel29]

And what clear contradiction would that be?

Do you honestly think that every Pope since 1880, when the issue of periodic continence for the purpose of child spacing was first raised with the Holy See

I’m glad to see we admit that the Church’s teaching on NFP less that 200 years old.

Every Pope since 1880 has taught error or allowed error to be taught in this regard?

If so, why are you Catholic?

I am not Roman Catholic, I’m Orthodox.

 

[Rence]

I’m glad to see we admit that the Church’s teaching on NFP less that 200 years old.

I am not Roman Catholic, I’m Orthodox.

So the Orthodox aren’t allowed to practice NFP? Is this what the Orthodox teach?

 

[josephdaniel29]

So the Orthodox aren’t allowed to practice NFP? Is this what the Orthodox teach?

No it’s not.

 

[Rence]

No it’s not.

You’re saying that the Orthodox also practice NFP? This is a teaching that your priests and patriarchs teach their married couples as well?

 

[StrawberryJam]

My ability to shut my mouth over this is hard to do at this point.

The thread is claiming NFP is an innovation.
The OP opened up a pandora’s box by asking the question, and you all missed it.

 

[Rence]

My ability to shut my mouth over this is hard to do at this point.

The thread is claiming NFP is an innovation.
The OP opened up a pandora’s box by asking the question, and you all missed it.

I didn’t miss it. I already addressed that pages ago. Remember? the goats that the ancient Catholics and Jews raised? He didn’t open up a pandora’s box, he disagrees with the teaching.

 

[Warrior1979]

Uh oh! Looks like you know when you’re beaten.

When fighting, always let your opponent believe they are winning. That type of pride will always ends with their back on the floor seeing little birdies flying around their head.

Are you slinking away instead of answering my question about what hormones a woman takes while charting her cycles, and the nature of the hormones in artificial contraception?

Already answered, but you’re not listening.

catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0502fea2.asp

It should be noted that the above is far more encompassing than what I was discussing…but I’m sure you knew that if you are paying attention.

 

[StrawberryJam]

I didn’t miss it. I already addressed that pages ago. Remember? the goats that the ancient Catholics and Jews raised? He didn’t open up a pandora’s box, he disagrees with the teaching.

Of course he does not agree with the teaching.

He is upset that NFP is allowed.

I can see why he does, but I can also see why his argument fails.

He’s grasping at any straw he can grasp now.

 

[josephdaniel29]

You’re saying that the Orthodox also practice NFP? This is a teaching that your priests and patriarchs teach their married couples as well?

An Orthodox couple can use NFP if they please.

 

[josephdaniel29]

He is upset that NFP is allowed.

Huh? I couldn’t care less if NFP is allowed.

 

[Rence]

An Orthodox couple can use NFP if they please.

Ok, so you’re not just arguing with the teaching ability of the Catholic Church but of the Orthodox Church as well. Maybe you should talk to one of your own priests about this? They might be able to help you with it. Because earlier in the thread you politely disputed that the Catholic Church had the fullness of trurth. But your leaders teach the same thing. I don’t mean to be rude, but not everyone in the world is wrong and you right. Just saying…

 

[josephdaniel29]

Ok, so you’re not just arguing with the teaching ability of the Catholic Church but of the Orthodox Church as well. Maybe you should talk to one of your own priests about this? They might be able to help you with it. Because earlier in the thread you politely disputed that the Catholic Church had the fullness of trurth. But your leaders teach the same thing. I don’t mean to be rude, but not everyone in the world is wrong and you right. Just saying…

Our teachers do not teach the same thing. For the most part, the Orthodox leave pastoral issues to the pastors, not canonist. That being said, what the Orthodox Church or any other Christian group teaches is not relevant to the OP.